Oceanic or Marine Pack

Really love that game. But wouldn't it be gorgeous if there was some oceanic or marine pack with dolphins, orcas or whales in general, seaturtles, manta rays, manatis/dugongs and aquariums with tropical reef fish?
One could say "No, dolphins etc. do not belong in captivity, in zoos." Thats absolutely right, in real life but for Planet Zoo it would be nice. And, if we're being honest NO animal belongs in captivity, So, what's wrong about oceanic DLC?
 
seaturtles, manta rays, manatis/dugongs and aquariums with tropical reef fish?
There is no opposition to these inclusions, actually a lot of the community would actually love a fully aquatic dlc which features general aquarium species like sea turtles, sharks, manatees , rays etc. Dolphins/whales well uh that's where it gets complicated to put it lightly, Some people have some very strong opinions on that matter
 
I think that aquarium mechanics would deviate too sharply from PZ's gameplay, so I think that they should just make Planet Aquarium.
 
I think that aquarium mechanics would deviate too sharply from PZ's gameplay, so I think that they should just make Planet Aquarium.
I think that fully marine habitat animals are probably never going to happen due to the habitat gate problem, but fully marine exhibit animals already exist (axolotl) and with the precedent set by the butterflies I think it's very likely that we'll get mixable exhibit fish at some point. I also would not be at all shocked if we got some kind of new tidepool/pond exhibit for showcasing animals like rays and koi.
 
I would love a marine expansion. For the controversial cetaceans and such a new rescue mechanic or something similar would be cool or make them really hard to take care of in franchise and challenge. I would love actually having a challenge with an animal in franchise. The controversies of the polar bear and hippo shouldn’t be an issue in this instance and if you don’t want these insane requirements and hypothetical requirements for cetaceans just play sandbox.
 
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I think that fully marine habitat animals are probably never going to happen due to the habitat gate problem, but fully marine exhibit animals already exist (axolotl) and with the precedent set by the butterflies I think it's very likely that we'll get mixable exhibit fish at some point. I also would not be at all shocked if we got some kind of new tidepool/pond exhibit for showcasing animals like rays and koi.
What you say may be correct, but I'm thinking that the inclusion of an exhibit fully aquatic animal does not translate to habitat types of marine animals. The whole set up for the original exhibits and how the animals get to those exhibits is very different from how animals get to the habitats.

You make a good point about the butterflies and it would definitely be interesting to see the walkthrough exhibit turned into some type of tide pool.

Either way though I don't think they represent a straightforward path to marine habitat, but that's just my own thoughts, I could easily be wrong.
 
I think that aquarium mechanics would deviate too sharply from PZ's gameplay, so I think that they should just make Planet Aquarium.
Beyond matters of programming, I fail to see how it would deviate all that much... honestly I'd be annoyed if they took that approach... it would be like how they handled the Return to Jurassic Park DLC, but with animals instead of buildings.
 
Allow me to throw in my two cents regarding cetaceans and marine shows. I've been to SeaWorld Orlando many times, and in recent years, they've shifted their animal shows to be more educational as well as entertaining. The trainers explain how the behaviors that their tricks exhibit are meant to be a form of enrichment that stimulates the natural behaviors that they don't really use in captivity. They need to motivate them to stay connected to their natural behaviors which are often expressed in hunting or interacting because the alternative would just be swimming around all day for no reason. They train them ethically as well, never abusing them. To quote the old metaphor, they always use the carrot to get the mule to move and never the stick.
 
Allow me to throw in my two cents regarding cetaceans and marine shows. I've been to SeaWorld Orlando many times, and in recent years, they've shifted their animal shows to be more educational as well as entertaining. The trainers explain how the behaviors that their tricks exhibit are meant to be a form of enrichment that stimulates the natural behaviors that they don't really use in captivity. They need to motivate them to stay connected to their natural behaviors which are often expressed in hunting or interacting because the alternative would just be swimming around all day for no reason. They train them ethically as well, never abusing them. To quote the old metaphor, they always use the carrot to get the mule to move and never the stick.
I don't want to get into a lengthy debate here and I don't doubt that Seaworld have improved in an attempt to address the massive controversy of Blackfish (whether you agree with it's conclusions or not) but if your information is coming from Seaworld then as someone who has worked in zoos and falconry centres I will be blunt and say that any for-profit animal collection has a very strong incentive to, at least over-emphasise the good aspects of their animal husbandry and hide the less savoury aspects. I should know because even when working for what I considered to be generally good collections I did the same. Not to say that the handlers are being intentionally dishonest (I wasn't, i was ignorant and lied to myself as much as anything).

Couple of anecdotes to illustrate:

1. I was volunteering as part of my gap year in South Africa on various humanitarian and animal based projects and for about a month I was working at a lion safari and education centre which happened to also breed white lions. Most of the lions were kept in safari conditions but a number of cubs were fostered because their mothers rejected them and at between 8 weeks and 4 months they would be part of a petting area where guests could pay extra to enter and play with the cubs. I had a wonderful time feeding and bonding with some of those cubs but I was uncomfortable right from the start with the set up - even highly social animals that are raised by humans aren't exactly naturally used to strangers coming in, waking them up and touching them all day. I'd never be party to anything like that again and in hindsight it becomes obvious that there were a suspiciously high number of lionesses 'rejecting' their cubs. Worse though was the white lions where I heard, at least surface level believed, then recited the propaganda of the organisation which was that the white lions were a naturally occuring genetic trait and that the organisation worked hard to keep the population genetically diverse and healthy. I got really attached to a triplet of white lion cubs of about 3 months old, one of which had a birth defect in the form of a kink in their tail. By the time I left 2 of them were dead - they died suddenly and with almost no explanation and I found out that this was a pretty regular 'but natural' problem.

2. A less blatant but more insidious problem; when working for a falconry centre when I was still a teenager we used to do flying demonstrations at various agricultural shows, schools etc. We'd have a stand where we would talk to the public at times when we weren't flying the birds. A couple of years in to my job our boss decided to start charging people who wanted to hold the birds at these shows and have their picture taken. It was a nightmare - before that when we'd allowed the public to hold the birds when we wanted to and felt they were comfortable and relaxed it had been an excellent opportunity to get people close eagle owls and hawks. Once we started charging and people had queued up with the expectation of being allowed to get near the birds it suddenly introduced huge pressure on us to keep the birds 'working' even when they were hot, or tired or stressed. To be fair the policy lasted less than a couple of months before we raised some of the issues with the boss and he was fine with us going back to the post-demo sessions being at our discretion and getting to hold the birds on the glove being a privilege not a right. The point being that the very act of monetising guest experiences that demand particular behaviours from animals is problematic.

None of this means Seaworld is evil and I think if we have to keep cetaceans in captivity should be kept stimulated but I much prefer the 'Edinburgh Zoo' style model where the penguins that march out of their enclosure do so if they want to with no food reward to force their engagement with the public.
Also none of this means that they shouldn't be in Planet Zoo (although I have many gameplay / mechanics concerns that mean I don't really want them). I just wanted to share my experiences to caution you that these organisations will lie to you, often they will be lies of ommission, 'white lies' and they may not even think they are lying because they'll deliberately avoid engaging with evidence that contradicts their position. This doesn't even make them wrong necessarily but statements like 'they need to motivate them to connect to their natural behavious' sound like the sort of crap I used to spout before I knew better by doing a degree in animal welfare.

Apologies for the long message!
 
My pack
  • Sea Otter (EN)
  • Whale Shark (EN)
  • Giant Oceanic Manta Ray (EN)
  • West Indian Manatee (VU)
  • Leatherback Sea Turtle (VU)
  • Southern Elephant Seal (LC)
  • Beluga Whale (LC)
  • Giant Pacific Octopus (LC) [Walkthrough Exhibit]
 
I don't have anything against full aquatics in general. I just don't think the additional effort they'd required would really be worth it when I don't expect us to have that many DLC packs remaining. If we only wind up getting a pack's worth of full aquatics, or maybe a pack and change, I'd honestly prefer that that effort goes toward fleshing out our terrestrial roster, and saving the aquatics for a sequel years down the road. I feel the same way about flying birds. Getting just a very small handful of species to fill out either of these generally very diverse areas of zoos would feel more disappointing than just continuing to do without.

  • Giant Pacific Octopus (LC) [Walkthrough Exhibit]
I've seen a lot of bizarre suggestions for walkthrough exhibits but this one takes the cake. I'm sure I'm envisioning the same thing you are - you mean for it to be an underwater tunnel, right? That seems like such an arbitrary thing to force an octopus into. I've never seen them in tunnels before. They're typically in relatively smallish aquariums, and often share them with various fish. If anything I think they'd be a decent standard exhibit species if we ever got exhibit aquatics.
 
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