Ochosi Ganker Block Dance makes me feel dirty.

[Chaparral]

Indeed we do. I feel that you are likely including games that I would put in entirely different genre from Elite: Dangerous and looking to them for exemplars on how ED could be 'improved'.
Yes, there may be some PvP servers in some of these games that have some degree of organic PvP, but for most of them PvP is the entire point of playing on those servers, and everything else just a stepping stone to testing one's characters or groups in combat with others. If PvP is baked into gameplay by forcing sides to be chosen or by there being nothing to do with other player character other than to fight them, it's not organic.
Ultimately, I don't think the sort of PvE/PvP distinction you're looking for is really compatible with the sort of game ED was supposed to be.
I don't think the ED universe is particularly dangerous most of the time. It's that danger could be there at any time that is part of the appeal of Open.
Everything that is a problem there is still a problem in the absence of PvP.
The game should probably pick a side rather than trying to cater to highly disparate outlooks.
The block mechanism isn't there to create a PvE game.
Expecting the worst then throwing blocks around that exclude your CMDR from far more than just those you've blocked is almost certainly not conducive to positive social interaction, even if it can occasionally minimize the negative interaction.

Don't really have any disagreements here, other than the consideration that FDEV probably authentically thought p2p could handle self/community-policing. It can't. Bottom line is the bottom line. If they can make more money offering a PVE experience, they should do it. Whether or not block is intended to create PVE, that's an application of the mechanic.

 

[Chaparral]

But it has a triple A block function

And it's awful at the same time. If I want to pvp, I just screwed up my own game play using it.

 

[Chaparral]

So stop doing the thing you don't like.

Its not like evading a gank is difficult at all. I can do it in an e-rated sidey.

I agree. It's just a waste of time to do once you have it down.

 

[Ezren]

Yeah, you're pretty much wrong. ED is not some thoughful grandiose icon with groundbreaking interpretation on the mmo model. Its a B level developer scraping by with barely functional multiplayer, that has pvp ish features that are actually fully developed by triple A houses. You really have zero experience of cash serious pvp where actual rewards are on the line for competing. Don't feel bad bro. You keep flying that ship and being real scary and "organic".

Sounds like you didn't like my answer but really didn't have a response.

I like the part where you told me what my experience was, because it was right before you said "don't feel bad bro" and I get the feeling you weren't even trying to be ironic.

Sorry you got so mad about my post.

 

[Morbad]

Don't really have any disagreements here, other than the consideration that FDEV probably authentically thought p2p could handle self/community-policing. It can't.

I think it's lack of consequence, and thus ability to create deterrents, that is a far greater issue than P2P.

 

[Bryan K]

Don't really have any disagreements here, other than the consideration that FDEV probably authentically thought p2p could handle self/community-policing. It can't. Bottom line is the bottom line. If they can make more money offering a PVE experience, they should do it. Whether or not block is intended to create PVE, that's an application of the mechanic.

A lot of things can be blamed on FDev’s naivety. When you hear them talk in the old days about their vision for how they thought PvP would play out, they didn’t seem to realize that when you give a bunch of players an online space full of flimsy rules, loopholes, a p2p architecture, and no real consequences for bad behavior, douchebaggery always abounds and eventually becomes predominant. Their skittishness with regards to banning serious offenders (or even believably threatening them) compounded this problem.

I don’t think they understood human nature very well. They were deluding themselves if they thought this playerbase would ever become some sort of self-policing, rational body that generated meaningful PvP. There’s no real incentive to not be a massive richard, aside from one’s own morals.

 

[Stigbob]

Yeah, you're pretty much wrong. ED is not some thoughful grandiose icon with groundbreaking interpretation on the mmo model. Its a B level developer scraping by with barely functional multiplayer, that has pvp ish features that are actually fully developed by triple A houses. You really have zero experience of cash serious pvp where actual rewards are on the line for competing. Don't feel bad bro. You keep flying that ship and being real scary and "organic".

The modes are an inspired piece of design, they offer all things to all players which is important in a niche market like spaceship games.

It only ever becomes an "issue" for the people who either insist everyone else play in their chosen mode exclusively or pick the wrong mode for themselves and insist everyone else play in their chosen way exclusively. Both those types deserve derision and not to get their own way though, so its all fine and good. Working as intended.

Block you need to have because of nutters.

Choice is good, providing you make the ones that make you happy. Anything else is just pebcak which is what you are doing.

 

[Bigmaec]

The modes are an inspired piece of design, they offer all things to all players which is important in a niche market like spaceship games.

It only ever becomes an "issue" for the people who either insist everyone else play in their chosen mode exclusively or pick the wrong mode for themselves and insist everyone else play in their chosen way exclusively. Both those types deserve derision and not to get their own way though, so its all fine and good. Working as intended.

Block you need to have because of nutters.

Choice is good, providing you make the ones that make you happy. Anything else is just pebcak which is what you are doing.

That's why most PvPers including me have no problem with people flying in PG, but many problems with the block, because the block is causing problems with my very play in open.
But I know I know, thats what I deserve for ganking, that'll show me...

 

[Ezren]

That's why most PvPers including me have no problem with people flying in PG, but many problems with the block, because the block is causing problems with my very play in open.
But I know I know, thats what I deserve for ganking, that'll show me...

Hell, based on this thread you'll get blocked just for flying a ship capable of combat.

 

[Old Duck]

But it has a triple A block function

Wait, are we back to promoting Space Engineers? Sign me up!

 

[Old Duck]

A lot of things can be blamed on FDev’s naivety.

So say we all!

 

[Stigbob]

That's why most PvPers including me have no problem with people flying in PG, but many problems with the block, because the block is causing problems with my very play in open.
But I know I know, thats what I deserve for ganking, that'll show me...

Think of the worst examples of bad reactions you've had in the forum from people who were quite obviously unstable and massively overreacted to some minor disagreement with you about some trivial bit of game design or other. Those 0.1% toxic types are why we have block, being able to ditch griefers is just a bonus.

Given how the law has been changing to protect people from the insane online and is struggling with the international nature of MMO's I could easily see things like block becoming mandatory for online games.

 

[[VR] M4st0d0n]

That's why most PvPers including me have no problem with people flying in PG, but many problems with the block, because the block is causing problems with my very play in open.

Can't be worse than having legit slf driven by my russian friend on vpn. Why not raise awareness of those nasty exploits on the issue tracker... Lol.

 

[DNA-Decay]

I guess you block any CMDR with purple hair too.

For me it’s face tattoos.

Nothing says “mental illness” like a facial tatt.

Not that I block anyone. Ever.

- You are all my navigation lights, my targets, my cavalry coming to the rescue, my friends, my celebrities, my bosses, my homies, my dangerous strangers, my comedians, and my enemies

 

[CMDR Neumann]

So there's a big crowd at Ochosi doing the fed rank run.

This inevitibly draws Player Killers looking for fun. That's the game. No judgement.

I'm flying a PVE Phantom running g5 modded LR pulse lasers, about 1k shields, about 1k hull with modded hull and mod reinforcements. Just a basic functional ship with decent range and decent boost speed (560 ish boost). I'm not concerned about any NPC in the game, but this is not a competitive ship in any pvp encounter. I can do the dance to escape gankers that interdict me with very little concern.

Lately, as soon as I pop into a system, and see my bandwidth pop up, I look around for ship types. If it's an FDL or FAS in a situation like this rep run, I don't even bother to deal with it any more.

I throttle down, emergency stop, find the contact, BLOCK, restart the game, get back to farming whatever.

It's no secret that C&P is not an effective deterrent, and I honestly don't feel like the player has any moral shortcomings at all. This is a video game, and the guy or girl is playing within the rules.

I just feel so gross that this is the most functional mechanic to address the gameplay mismatch.

I wonder what Elite 2.0 will look like in handling this. I sincerely hope it's better than what we have now.

I mean an alternative instead of emergency dropping just plot a course and jump out. Also if it’s only one trying to interdict you it’s not terribly hard to avoid. If two or more are trying to get a piece of that ass it’s very likely they will, no matter how sporadic your maneuvers are if they are smart one of them will get you.

Of course there’s no way to know if they’re in a wing without targeting them but that takes to long and it’s dangerous enough as is so again: just jump out immediately. Blocking works but I find that player interaction is part of the reason I love elite so I welcome the excitement and fear that comes with it.

 

[WinterKing2112]

The limit on PG member numbers is in the region of 5,000 which is almost as many total Elite players as there are online at any given time so that doesn't seem to be a very accurate reason.

Your logic is faulty. If a PG has 5,000 members, of which let's say 5% are online at any given moment, then there's only 250 online at any given time. As opposed to open which you stated has at least 5, 000 online at any given moment.

 

[Old Duck]

I mean an alternative instead of emergency dropping just plot a course and jump out. Also if it’s only one trying to interdict you it’s not terribly hard to avoid. If two or more are trying to get a piece of that it’s very likely they will, no matter how sporadic your maneuvers are if they are smart one of them will get you.

Of course there’s no way to know if they’re in a wing without targeting them but that takes to long and it’s dangerous enough as is so again: just jump out immediately. Blocking works but I find that player interaction is part of the reason I love elite so I welcome the excitement and fear that comes with it.

My own approach is to do everything I can to survive my encounter with gankers, and I'm usually successful (I've been playing for over 2.5 years). I call it "Reverse Iron Man" because I do realize that every time I block someone, I'm slowly diminishing my own "sphere of interaction", and if I go too far, then Open for me will become dull and boring like Mobius can be. If someone does succeed in murdering me in cold blood, then the odds are they are doing the equivalent of seal-clubbing, which is beating me not because they are superior pilots, but because they are using in a wing of G5 FDLs to destroy my meek (but oh so amazing in VR) Eagle. Removing these specific (and hopefully few-in-number) folks from my "sphere of interaction" only improves the game for me.