Oculus vs Vive - Does vive still have issues? With £100 off I feel like asking again!

Last time I looked into VR it looked like the Vive, my otherwise preferred platform for the slightly wider view and space tracking, had issues with Elite (I seem to recall something about worse AA or something). With the £100 off vive offer today I thought I'd ask:

Is this still an issue? Is there much difference between the two now the Occulus has its controllers? I'm mainly buying for Elite and some other seated games, though the standing VR is impressive. Price is not an issue.
 
If price is not an issue, why make it a major part of your thread title? :p

I think many of the little issues that the Vive and the Rift shipped with are still present.
There are still some texture culling issues in ED, but the poor colour banding is gone.

Some seem to think the Vive has better tracking, but my experiences with both say they're pretty similar with slight 'flavour' differences. Who cares, so long as it works. Both do fine, especially for 1st-gen consumer products... we could have had to deal with far worse. You can nit-pick either system.
Field of view is pretty similar, resolution is identical. Vive is brighter, but the scene seems just a tad sharper in the Rift, god rays notwithstanding.

Obviously ED doesn't support Touch or the Vive controllers, so its up to personal preference really for an ED experience. There are many pro-Rift and many pro-Vive ED CMDRs here.Touch is streets ahead in my opinion, just a good design. With Touch you get a second sensor, and some are having issues with the single sensor setup Rifts. Vive tracking seems pretty solid (so is the Rift in my case with two sensors in a 4m x 3m space).

Make sure you have a decent GPU, so you get the best of which ever headset you go with.
 
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Obviously ED doesn't support Touch
It does, but only as an emulated gamepad. In that you can use the analogue sticks, buttons, triggers as inputs to the game. Motion controls don't do anything. There's even a default controller setting for it (this might only be 2.3, not sure).

[It's actually pretty pointless if you have the Rift, as you get an Xbox One controller with it anyway]
 
It does, but only as an emulated gamepad. In that you can use the analogue sticks, buttons, triggers as inputs to the game. Motion controls don't do anything. There's even a default controller setting for it (this might only be 2.3, not sure).

[It's actually pretty pointless if you have the Rift, as you get an Xbox One controller with it anyway]

ooo this is interesting.
do you guys not suffer the problem with your xbox pad refusing to turn back on after it has shut down from lack of use? for me this happens every time and is a massive issue when i may go 30 mins between using it.

actually driving the srv with touch in stead of xbox pad may be the fix i am looking for.
 
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Last time I looked into VR it looked like the Vive, my otherwise preferred platform for the slightly wider view and space tracking, had issues with Elite (I seem to recall something about worse AA or something). With the £100 off vive offer today I thought I'd ask:

Is this still an issue? Is there much difference between the two now the Occulus has its controllers? I'm mainly buying for Elite and some other seated games, though the standing VR is impressive. Price is not an issue.

I've decided I won't ever buy an Oculus Rift because Palmer Luckey (whom works for Facebook) funded online trolls in support of Trump. He's been scarce in public ever since he was ousted for it.

edit: looks as though he now left facebook!
 
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Last time I looked into VR it looked like the Vive, my otherwise preferred platform for the slightly wider view and space tracking, had issues with Elite (I seem to recall something about worse AA or something). With the £100 off vive offer today I thought I'd ask:

Is this still an issue? Is there much difference between the two now the Occulus has its controllers? I'm mainly buying for Elite and some other seated games, though the standing VR is impressive. Price is not an issue.

I have a Vive and love it for E: D. Can't say I notice any issues apart from the obvious resolution drop on all HMDs. The Oculus is alot cheaper now after the recent price drop if I understand correctly, and is also excellent from what I hear. In the end, you should go for the one you prefer for whatever reason.

My reasons were: Steam, room scale, clear regional support and warranty (Denmark, Europe), and a more complete package at release (Oculus has since caught up on that point). And I was able to try before I bought which was a big deal for me. Haven't seen Oculus offering this anywhere.

But both are great HMDs to my knowledge, so follow your heart. :)
 
I've decided I won't ever buy an Oculus Rift because Palmer Luckey (whom works for Facebook) funded online trolls in support of Trump. He's been scarce in public ever since he was ousted for it.

*sigh* Somewhat old news... anyway Palmer left Facebook a few days ago.
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/03/oculus-co-founder-palmer-luckey-leaves-facebook/

He's not the first to make a marketing blunder. It didn't seem to impact Oculus all that much. He's still richer than the rest of us put together.
 
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Last time I looked into VR it looked like the Vive, my otherwise preferred platform for the slightly wider view and space tracking, had issues with Elite (I seem to recall something about worse AA or something). With the £100 off vive offer today I thought I'd ask:

Is this still an issue? Is there much difference between the two now the Occulus has its controllers? I'm mainly buying for Elite and some other seated games, though the standing VR is impressive. Price is not an issue.

I have both, for me clarity is much better with the rift.

I also have touch controllers for the rift and if you throw in another sensor the room scale on the rift isn't bad.

I wrote my review on both last year, it might be helpful.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...y-Vive-and-Occulus-Rift?p=4273457#post4273457

- - - Updated - - -

I've decided I won't ever buy an Oculus Rift because Palmer Luckey (whom works for Facebook) funded online trolls in support of Trump. He's been scarce in public ever since he was ousted for it.

edit: looks as though he now left facebook!


Now he's left would now considering buying one?

the thing is there are worst people than him out there selling everyday products. I will have a lot of respect for you, if your philosophy extends to everything you buy.

Even HTC don't look ethics issues . www.phonearena.com/news/A-thousand-HTC-engineers-sound-off-to-their-boss-in-a-letter_id39579
 
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These "AA issues" stem from the fact that Oculus runtime does adjust supersampling value behind the scenes automatically, in Vive you have to set it fixed via a 3rd party utility. I've seen Elite on both, IMHO after rather easy two settings tweak (mentioned supersampling and in game HMD Quality slider) these two are comparable. But it is my opinion and you're advised to try both before committing money. See this in depth "review" (and thread):

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/319126-Vive-or-Rift?p=4964286&viewfull=1#post4964286

TBH after touch release it is minor considerations between the two, walled garden Oculus Store etc, HTC + Valve, these kind of things to consider.
 
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I have a Rift. People come over and I put them in a space ship. They go "I got to get me one of these now." Sells itself.
 
These "AA issues" stem from the fact that Oculus runtime does adjust supersampling value behind the scenes automatically, in Vive you have to set it fixed via a 3rd party utility.

The AA issues in VR stem from the simple low resolution of the headset.

The Pixel Density setting for the Rift can be changed on the fly, but ED's Cobra engine does not do this. It is set using the Oculus Debug Tool, or more recently, the HMD Quality setting in ED, which adjusts the same Pixel Density value.

There is no modification whilst playing ED. (Compare with Robo Recall, which is UnrealEngine4 and can adjust pixel density on the fly within ranges you can set).
 
The AA issues in VR stem from the simple low resolution of the headset.

The Pixel Density setting for the Rift can be changed on the fly, but ED's Cobra engine does not do this. It is set using the Oculus Debug Tool, or more recently, the HMD Quality setting in ED, which adjusts the same Pixel Density value.

D'oh of course it's caused by low resolution, I was referring to the jarring difference between Rift and Vive out of the box, plug&play. Vive is much worse, yet when you crank application supersampling in openvr advanced settings to 1.2-1.5 and put the hmd quality in game at 1.25 you're all set. It used to be much more complicated than this.

As for dynamic range, there was an reddit thread explaining the on the fly adjustment. Apparently you can put that to auto and let Oculus Runtime take care of that. IDK what Cobra does, but it does look better out of the box with the rift. Perhaps they set something hardcoded?
 
@ OP

Just buy the one that takes your fancy. My mate has the Vive and I have the Rift. Once you've got the things on you're hard pressed to tell much difference. They both pretty much deliver the same experience.

If you just want it for Elite and other seated sims etc, then obviously the basic Rift that comes without Touch etc is your best and cheapest option. See how it goes and then if you really want to do the standy up room scale stuff you can always add the Touch controllers at a later date. Touch is good, but to be honest I've hardly used it as I still spend 90% of my VR time playing ED or other sims.

If you go for an Oculus and want to play cross compatible games with Vive owners, then just make sure you buy your Oculus compatible games on Steam rather than the Oculus store. Single player stuff it doesn't matter and I actually prefer Oculus Home for that as it's less fussy to use than Steam VR. Played Arizona Sunshine with my Vive owning mate online and it was great fun.

On the other hand, if price really isn't an issue then just buy both HMD's (but I slightly suspect that it probably is really).

Regardless of which one you choose, once you play ED in VR there's no going back.
 
Regardless of which one you choose, once you play ED in VR there's no going back.

What he's saying is true.
There is no going back to 2d for most of us. There are a few 4k oddballs out there ;-) but the general consensus is that its better to sit IN the starship cockpit than LOOK AT the starship cockpit. It is that good.

Also, be warned - if you do try VR, it will probably change your mindset from "they want HOW MUCH for that TOY?" to "where can I get the cash for my headset?" :D
 
...IDK what Cobra does, but it does look better out of the box with the rift. Perhaps they set something hardcoded?

(Sorry for running down this sidetrack, everybody, but I find the explanation worth it. :7)

The reason the image looks better in Rift than Vive, is that its physical resolution is in fact higher.

Now; Both HMDs have display panels with the same dimensions in pixel count terms (...which has de facto come to be called "resolution"), but they spread those pixels, as seen through the lenses, over different view angles, giving them different resolution in the truer sense of the word: detail density; In print you would use measurements in "Dots Per Inch", but for HMDs "Pixels Per Degree" is more appropriate.

I am using approximate, vaguely esti-measured and recollected numbers here: The horizontal field of view of the display panel through a single lens of a HTC Vive, if you press your eyeball all the way up to it, is somewhere in the range 90 to 100 degrees, whereas the corresponding for the Oculus Rift is around 75-90 degrees. This means that Per Degree of your field of view, you have more pixels in the Rift than in the Vive - about a 20% difference; The illustration I like to use, is that the same tiny bitmap font you get to draw in a 5x5 grid set in the Rift, you have to somehow make readable with only 4x4 in the Vive.

"Hang on a minute", you'll be saying by now, "I get a much better field of view in my Rift than that." This is where you have some crafty decisions on Oculus' part coming into the picture, when it comes to tradeoffs: In the Vive, both eyes cover almost the entire total FOV of the headset, providing full stereoscopy over all but the last few degrees out to the sides. If the Rift, however, the game camera frusta are asymmetric, and a bit of that stereo overlap is sacrificed for more resolution, and a bit of fov in the periphery; Your left eye does not see as far to the right, as your right one does, and vice versa. This means that the total FOV, for both eyes combined, is only 5-10 degrees lower than that of the Vive.

Since the Rift's lenses magnifies less, they also have some spare fov, which they utilise on the corners of the screen, through a square-ish cut, making less of the pixels there go to waste, whereas in the Vive, the round lenses reach as far as they can all around, except in the middle, where the left and right views, drawn side-by-side onto the single image sent to the screen, truncate one another, taking out notches.(EDIT: ...so in the Vive the image is round, like the lenses - no reason to render anything you can't see anyway (EDIT2: Incidently, I am curious as to whether FDev takes this into account with Elite; That large part of the image, out in the corners, can be masked off from pixel shaders, so that you don't waste GPU cycles on them)).

I am quite convinced this lower field of view per lens, of the Rift, is also a considerable part of the reason you have less falloff of sharpness outward toward the edges, as compared to the Vive - it's not just just better optical geometry, but even simpler; You don't use as much in the first place, except on the diagonal.

Clever and effective as this tradeoff scheme is, it is also the greatest of the reasons I prefer to use my Vive over my Rift, including for Elite and other cockpit games; I just can't get over the "per eye black bars", where stereopsis ends (EDIT3: Feels kind of like having the 2001 monolith for a nose prosthetic :p). I seem to be something of an outlier with regard to this; Nobody else seems to even notice them at all, in the first place. :7
 
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While all that makes great sense, it doesn't actually explain the fact that when you crank up supersampling on the Vive you get to rift clarity levels.
...

Well, not quite Rift quality, but decent enough. :7

To have Elite render a simulated equivalent PPD for a Rift, of what it does for a Vive without any supersampling, I guess you would use HMDQuality 0.8 (pick your .75 or .85 poison, or use the Oculus debug tool instead, to get to 0.8 exactly). Do you judge those two would be signficantly different in clarity? (I haven't tested, but in shameless unscientific laziness presume they wouldn't. :p)

There are of course many things that will affect the final result: Amongst them; (EDIT: First of all, of course, real physical pixels is always better than supersampled to fewer, if one can have them :7); Due to lens properties, PPD is not even across the FOV - you get more pixels per degree though the centre of the lens, than in its periphery; The filtering methods and qualities used by the Oculus and OpenVR runtimes, when pre-distorting the image to counter the distortion caused by the lens, will have some softening effect; Tiny motions of your head will pop slightly differently quantised output pixels from a supersampled eye texture to your eyes, letting your visual system effectively do tempo-spatial multisampling, so that you perceive more resolution than the display is really able show as an image, not entirely unlike how some flatbed scanners used to have an "interpolated" mode, which scanned the page twice, with the scanning head slightly offset the second time. (EDIT2: In fact, a recent SteamVR beta changed its texture filtering method, to one that averaged texels more, for a more antialiased output (as well as optimising for performance), but that effectively killed the aforementioned human eye multisampling, resulting in a "static, blurry" image, much to the chagrin of Elite players, who proceeded to persuade Valve's devteam to change it back) :7
 
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...Clever and effective as this tradeoff scheme is, it is also the greatest of the reasons I prefer to use my Vive over my Rift, including for Elite and other cockpit games; I just can't get over the "per eye black bars", where stereopsis ends (EDIT3: Feels kind of like having the 2001 monolith for a nose prosthetic :p). I seem to be something of an outlier with regard to this; Nobody else seems to even notice them at all, in the first place. :7

Sidetracks are good - just avoid derailments :D

You're correct in that the Rift has slightly higher effective resolution in the central sweet-spot - due to the lens geometry and the differences between the fresnel optics. The difference might only be very slight, but it might be juuust enough that a large enough group of Rift users 'feel a verifiable and repeatable positive difference' over the Vive optics. However, there are relatively few VR users with both headsets.

To be honest, I'm amazed there's no standard 'test pattern' available that has text of varying point sizes visible along with images, horizontal/vertical/diagonal lines etc. Maybe this does exist internally at Oculus and HTC/Valve as it would have been needed during development of the lenses. Releasing a good test pattern image set to all users would make for some interesting data.

I don't mind the slightly narrower field of stereo vision in the Rift - I agree its probably not even noticed by most VR users.
Everyone's eyes are slightly different, their noses are different (which changes your personal field of view and area of stereo overlap). Everyone's perception is different too, even given the same visual data. I can see the edges of the stereo field if I look, but it doesn't jump out for me or annoy me in any way.
I think we would find that the vast majority of VR users don't notice all the tricks already in play by the SteamVR and Oculus drivers.

While VR users as a whole would still have the same distribution of eye/vision characteristics as non-VR users, some VR users fall into the 'outlier' or edge population and those people do tend to notice one/some/all of the faults compared to normal unimpeded stereo vision in everyday life.

I'm looking forward to 2nd Generation hardware - I just hope the GPU's can keep up and we see a pronounced improvement when the Vive2 and Rift2 ship (who knows when lol). :)
 
If trying CV1 do note that the current Runtime1.13 is bugged and has regular jumps each 10-20secs. This was not there before and is now fixed in their Public Test Version and so a fix is coming very soon. The Rift is lighter but after 2hours you can begin to get aches. You can pusg yourself past this and become hardened to it. I have done 6hour stretches before although I did get sore eyes and is now a slight problem I must clear up as I wear contact lenses. However when I wear glasses I can actually much more clearly moving my eyes around which is at times slightly blurred without glasses.
 
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