A few of the things i mention here have been mentioned before in here. But this time, i dont just want to Discuss what is wrong, broken or could be better, this time i want to suggest a few things.
I have played a lot of Games before, so i have seen quite a few different Systems. I have experienced many many Problems, and i have seen other Developers fix them.
Some of them are here in Odyssey too, so i will mention them and how they were fixed or atleast improved.
Lets start...
Weapons
Even though we had an Alpha Phase where we could test and provide Feedback for Weapons, we couldnt test them all and not in a full Range of Environments. We could not test Plasma, we could not test Engineering, and we could not really test Open World.
I have tried them all by now, so i will make a List with Problems and Solutions.
Shields
Here i want to mention the first case where another Game actually fixed a very similar Problem.
Warframe has a very similar mechanic when it comes to Damage Types and Shields. A while ago the Devs introduced Shieldgating, so you have to take down a Shield before you can actually damage the Health. Different Elements deal more or less damage against it. It is pretty much the same as we have in Odyssey.
The Problem is, that Sniper-Weapons now became useless as even a 1HP Shield could block 1.8M damage. Its the same in Odyssey. Tormentor and Executioner are the only Weapons that are single-projectile and not rapid Fire. So there will be a point where you will deal more Damage than a Shield can hold. Yet it absorbs the full Hit. You can see that here. Rapidfire or Multishot Weapons dont have that issue as they Break a shield through the amount of Projectiles, not raw Damage. You wont notice if you loose 0.4 damage of your 2.7 damage Projectile. You will notice it when you loose 29.4 damage of your 30 damage Projectile. Another Problem is "Type Switching" which we have too. You need a Laser to bring down the higher Shields and you need a Kinetic to then destroy the Health.
Warframe solved it by adding "Bleed through". Imagine it like hitting a Bulletproof Vest with a High Caliber Round. In the best case, the Vest absorbs the majority of the Impact, but not enough to fully protect. You will break a few Ribs and it will hurt a lot. Worst case, the Projectile just goes straight through.
In Odysseys case that could be a G5 Executioner VS a G1 Artemis. The Artemis Shield stands no chance, even though it absorbs the majority of the damage, the "Bleed Through" is still enough to deal lethal Damage. Now a G5 Dominator against the G5 Executioner would be a fair match. If you dont land a Headshot, the Dominator should absorb a full Blast just like it does now.
Kinetic Weapons suffer a lot against Shields too. In their case a tiny bit of Damage could bleed through too, like a tradeoff for lower accuracy and projectile Speed. Lasers are hitscan and highly accurace, so they are fully absorbed.
This combined with increased Projectile Speed on the Executioner would lead to another Problem though, Enemy AI would be unbeatable and unfair. So, this leads to...
Enemy AI
Currently the AI seems to have one type of behavior. It doesnt matter if it is a Commando, Striker or Sharpshooter. They fire at Range and switch to a Pistol up Close. This is bad though as Odysseys Balance is not about Damage, but about the Type you bring. So when the Sharpshooter switches from his Plasma-Cannon that can oneshot you to a Kinetic Pistol that cant even break a Shield? Yeah thats not going to work.
Another thing would be when Enemies with Plasma Weapons stay at Range. They try to actually snipe you with the Opressor or Intimidator. They should not do that. It simply does not work. Thanks for the Lightshow though and thanks for telling me where you are.
Also, if the Sharpshooter would have an actual Sniper Rifle as mentioned above, they would be not fun to fight against.
So, what could be done...
There are actually quite a lot of Games that fixed this issue. Odyssey is in its core still Elite Dangerous. Elite Dangerous has huge Planets and Terrain. In the Trailers we see several times how a Player group engages from a Hill, yet thats not even remotely possible. Odysseys balance is more like an Arena Shooter, like Call of Duty, Unreal Tournament, Doom...there are many like that. Its fast and close Range. So spawning Enemies with such a Weapon there? Not fun. No one likes Sniper Rifles and Noobtubes in those Games. Yet in Battlefield, Planetside and such Games they are actually fine and mostly fair. And yes, some of us really enjoy playing a Sniper and take out a Base from far away, avoiding detection, scouts and all that. So dont limit Combat to "Up Close" only, give us the Tools to enjoy the Game and Combat too. We have so many different ways to build Ships, from close range Shotgun Fighters to long range Railgun Snipers...so please allow us the same on the Ground.
The difference is, that Snipers or "Sharpshooters" are limited. They dont run around in Groups, thats what a Scout is for, and a Scouts Weapon in Odyssey should be the Aphelion. They have to set up their Nest to snipe from, they have limited Ammo (thats what we have already), they have limited Vision through their Scope, and once they have been spotted, they have a Problem...eiher another Sniper kills them, an Airstrike levels their Nest, or someone sneaks up for an easy Knife-Kill and Teabagging.
So far i have not seen a single Enemy that spawned with the Rocket Launcher. So Sharpshooters as in Snipers should have a lower spawnchance than the rest of them. There could be a category called "Special Units". Sharpshooters, Anti Material, and more in the Future.
If you attack a Settlement, Sharpshooters should spawn on specific Points. Roofs. The Roofs in Odyssey are currently the Save-Spots for us. Enemies cant reach us and we can snipe from there. With Sharpshooters spawning on them instead of as random Guards, they would bring a whole new tactical level.
If you have to take out Scavengers, there could be a few further away from the "Main Groups". On the Roofs or other Objects like the Tanks.
Overall the AI needs different behavior Patterns based on Equipment.
Striker: Spawns with Intimidator, Eclipse or C-44. Has high Shield and Armor, tries to go up close and Personal, does not swith to a Pistol. Uses Healthpacks.
Commando: Spawns with AR-50 or Oppressor. Tries to stay at medium Range behind Cover. Throws Grenades.
Scout: Spawns with Aphelion. Tries to stay at medium Range like the Commando, but is more about Precision. Throws Shield-Grenades.
Sharpshooter: Spawns in special locations on Roofs, Towers, or other Objects instead of randomly with other Types. Uses the improved Executioner. Does not use a Flashlight and uses Shield only if hit first. Does not move or run around.
Anti-Material: Spawns as part of High-Security Forces. Uses the L-6 Rocket Launcher, Shields and Healthpacks. Will ruin your day.
Engineering
I admit, i have not tried them all yet. So here are just a few things that i have noticed:
Greater Range: Says that incrases the effective Range. This should also include a Projectile Speed increase as it doesnt matter if your effective Range is 100m or 150m, when you cant hit past the 30m mark.
Reload Speed: For some reason it has almost no effect on the Rocket Launcher. Im not sure how the calculation works, but something is off there.
Scope: Currently the Scope is a joke. It is great on the Shotgun, but thats pretty much it. I and many other players excpected an actual Scope, for a Sniper. This Mod could add a "Target Indicator" like we have in Ships to make it easier to predict enemy movement. "Aim here to hit when the enemy keeps moving at that speed into this direction".
Personally i also think that Upgrading Weapons is far too expensive to not remove Modules again. You need a lot of Material to get a Weapon to G5...and just one wrong Mod completely ruins it.
So...there should be a way to clear Slots again.
HUD
Since we can use Cosmetics on our Armor, it can be quite tricky to identify which one an Enemy is actually using. Could be a Dominator, could be an Artemis that looks like a Dominator. Who knows? So, when we scan a Target, the information we receive should also show things like Weapon and Armor. Two simple lines like "G2 Eclipse | G4 Dominator" would be enough.
Vehicles, Ships and Drones
As mentioned in the Rocket Launcher part already, "Anti Material" Damage feels wrong. But not only that, the other way around too.
If you attack a Settlement with your Ship and sweap your Size 3 Beam Laser across the field...it does nothing. Yet someone with a Plasma Pistol is an actual Danger to your Ship.
The same when you drive your SRV. In Alpha you had a Tank, in Release you have a Suicide-Box. Enemies will shoot you and they will kill you if you dont get out fast enough. Its easier to take on a group of Guardian Sentinels than a group of Scavengers.
Combined Scale Combat works again fine in Games like Battlefield or Planetside. Vehicles are deadly. They are supposed to be.
For Damage-Balance i would like to mention a Rule from the Elite Dangerous Role Playing Game - EDRPG.
While still not perfect, it could be worth a try. This is one thing i wish we had a longer Alpha for.
Now, how to balance it when someone decides to bring a "Tank" to a "Gunfight" aka SRV and Ship to a Combat Zone?
SRVs are currently already very very bad as they die fast to regular Gunfire. After a change like the one mentioned just now, they would be a bit stronger, but still not Tanks. So they should be fine. Strong, but not too strong. Anti-Material Units could spawn in Combat Zones from time to time if an SRV is detected. That way the SRV would work like a Light Vehicle in Games like Battlefield or Planetside - you can damage them with your Gun, and enough Gunfire destroys them, or you bring a Rocket Launcher and blow them up!
Ships with Dumbfire Missiles are currently the main Problem. There needs to be a way to take them down. One example i have already mentioned in the Rocket Launcher section. Hitting a Ship with a Shield-Piercing Rocket which then destroys or deactivates Hardpoints, but not the entire Ship, that would be a great way and give the Rocket Launcer an actual use, instead of it being a Noobtube. Those Rockets would be immune to Point Defense and Shields due to their Size and Speed. Ships would not recognize them, they would just slip through like a Cargo Canister would.
Another way would be "Tactical Objectives". Anti-Air Turrets could have a Charge-Port on them that you can Overcharge. This could reactivate them for like 30s without an active Power Generator. I tried taking them out with my Challenger already and i lost horribly. So those Turrets would be a great way for Players to deal with other In-Ship-Players.
My Personal Wishlist
Just some things that i would wish for in the Future someday, things to spice Combat up a bit.
I have played a lot of Games before, so i have seen quite a few different Systems. I have experienced many many Problems, and i have seen other Developers fix them.
Some of them are here in Odyssey too, so i will mention them and how they were fixed or atleast improved.
Lets start...
Weapons
Even though we had an Alpha Phase where we could test and provide Feedback for Weapons, we couldnt test them all and not in a full Range of Environments. We could not test Plasma, we could not test Engineering, and we could not really test Open World.
I have tried them all by now, so i will make a List with Problems and Solutions.
| Weapon | Feedback and Problems | Solutions |
| Karma P-15 (Kinetic Pistol) | The P-15 is perfectly fine as it is. The Sound sounds awful though, like hitting a Pan with a wooden Spoon. | Someday in the future a more dominant Sound would be nice. |
| Karma C-44 (SMG) | It has a low effective Range of just 25m, with a dps of 8 it is actually even below AR-50. | SMGs should have a really high dps since they are Close Range Weapons. An Assault Rifle should not beat them in damage up-close. Reduce the Accuracy to make them bad at long Range. |
| Karma AR-50 (Assault Rifle) | It feels fun to use, but it suffers badly when used against Shields. | The Rock-Paper-Scissor System needs finetuning. Shields are especially problematic, more about that in the next Section. |
| Karma L-6 | Its a Noobtube. The Damage feels completely off. In one of the Trailers the Rocket Launcer was used to destroy a Skimmer. Yet in the current Version the Rockets are far too slow to reliably hit them. It is not an "Anti Material" Weapon. | Suggestion a) Turn it into a Seeker Missile and up the Damage a lot, let it pierce Shields. Let it be used against Skimmers, Goliaths and SRVs but no longer against Infantery. In a Team you could even take out a small Ship. Suggestion b) Change the Dominator Suit. Remove the second "Primary Weapon" and instead add the Rocket Launcher as its tool. Dominator can now cycle between different Payloads similar to Grenades. Explosive, EMP, or Armor Piercing to use those effects with higher Precision at higher Range. |
| TK Zenith (Pistol) | Its completely useless. It has a low Accuracy due to its high spread, and it deals the lowest damage of all Pistols. Zenith: 9.7dps, P-15: 14dps, Tormentor: 18.6dps | Change it into something unique. Turn it into a short-range Beam Laser for example. |
| TK Eclipse (SMG) | Just like the C-44 it suffers from its dps and short Range. | Same as with the C-44. Increase its damage at short Range and decrase its Accuracy at long Range. |
| TC Aphelion (Assault Rifle) | This should have been the Marksman Rifle in the list. Its accurate, Hitscan, and with some Engineering shreds through Shield and Armor. | Its fine as it is. |
| Manticore Tormentor (Pistol) | The best Pistol, if not the best Weapon in Odyssey. It deals a ton of damage and is effective against Shield and Healt. It is one of the few Weapons that suffer from the Shield problem though. | As already mentioned, i will cover this in the next Section. |
| Manticore Intimidator (Shotgun) | The only Plasma Weapon that does not suffer from the Shield Problem. Its strong, maybe a bit too strong. | Adding a Scope greatly reduces its spread, which turns it into a mid-range Rifle that can kill even fully shielded Enemies in one Shot. Instead of nerfing it, other Weapons should be brough up instead as Bulletsponges are not fun. |
| Manticore Executioner (Marksman Rifle) | Does not deserve the title of a Marksman Rifle. Has an effective Range of 100m, yet it completely fails to be effective. It has pretty much the same effective Range as all the other Plasma Weapons, yet the Tormentor is much more effective. in this Video you can see how bad the Speed is. Just look at how late im actually Doging, and thats not even long range. Thats like...20m or so? You can also see the Shield-Problem there. | Projectile Speed should go up. Currently it is around 50m/s or so, so 100m/s would make it actually usable. Yes, Enemy AI would wreck you, but thats what i will mention further below in the AI section. It also suffers from the Shield problem, which again, is covered in the Shield part. |
| Manticore Oppressor (Assault Rifle) | Pretty much the worst Weapon so far. Low Damage, low Projectile speed and Range...its just not good at all. | Just like with the Executioner it could need a faster Projectile, maybe around 75m/s or so. Also slightly increased Damage since it has a very low Accuracy and effective Range. |
Shields
Here i want to mention the first case where another Game actually fixed a very similar Problem.
Warframe has a very similar mechanic when it comes to Damage Types and Shields. A while ago the Devs introduced Shieldgating, so you have to take down a Shield before you can actually damage the Health. Different Elements deal more or less damage against it. It is pretty much the same as we have in Odyssey.
The Problem is, that Sniper-Weapons now became useless as even a 1HP Shield could block 1.8M damage. Its the same in Odyssey. Tormentor and Executioner are the only Weapons that are single-projectile and not rapid Fire. So there will be a point where you will deal more Damage than a Shield can hold. Yet it absorbs the full Hit. You can see that here. Rapidfire or Multishot Weapons dont have that issue as they Break a shield through the amount of Projectiles, not raw Damage. You wont notice if you loose 0.4 damage of your 2.7 damage Projectile. You will notice it when you loose 29.4 damage of your 30 damage Projectile. Another Problem is "Type Switching" which we have too. You need a Laser to bring down the higher Shields and you need a Kinetic to then destroy the Health.
Warframe solved it by adding "Bleed through". Imagine it like hitting a Bulletproof Vest with a High Caliber Round. In the best case, the Vest absorbs the majority of the Impact, but not enough to fully protect. You will break a few Ribs and it will hurt a lot. Worst case, the Projectile just goes straight through.
In Odysseys case that could be a G5 Executioner VS a G1 Artemis. The Artemis Shield stands no chance, even though it absorbs the majority of the damage, the "Bleed Through" is still enough to deal lethal Damage. Now a G5 Dominator against the G5 Executioner would be a fair match. If you dont land a Headshot, the Dominator should absorb a full Blast just like it does now.
Kinetic Weapons suffer a lot against Shields too. In their case a tiny bit of Damage could bleed through too, like a tradeoff for lower accuracy and projectile Speed. Lasers are hitscan and highly accurace, so they are fully absorbed.
This combined with increased Projectile Speed on the Executioner would lead to another Problem though, Enemy AI would be unbeatable and unfair. So, this leads to...
Enemy AI
Currently the AI seems to have one type of behavior. It doesnt matter if it is a Commando, Striker or Sharpshooter. They fire at Range and switch to a Pistol up Close. This is bad though as Odysseys Balance is not about Damage, but about the Type you bring. So when the Sharpshooter switches from his Plasma-Cannon that can oneshot you to a Kinetic Pistol that cant even break a Shield? Yeah thats not going to work.
Another thing would be when Enemies with Plasma Weapons stay at Range. They try to actually snipe you with the Opressor or Intimidator. They should not do that. It simply does not work. Thanks for the Lightshow though and thanks for telling me where you are.
Also, if the Sharpshooter would have an actual Sniper Rifle as mentioned above, they would be not fun to fight against.
So, what could be done...
There are actually quite a lot of Games that fixed this issue. Odyssey is in its core still Elite Dangerous. Elite Dangerous has huge Planets and Terrain. In the Trailers we see several times how a Player group engages from a Hill, yet thats not even remotely possible. Odysseys balance is more like an Arena Shooter, like Call of Duty, Unreal Tournament, Doom...there are many like that. Its fast and close Range. So spawning Enemies with such a Weapon there? Not fun. No one likes Sniper Rifles and Noobtubes in those Games. Yet in Battlefield, Planetside and such Games they are actually fine and mostly fair. And yes, some of us really enjoy playing a Sniper and take out a Base from far away, avoiding detection, scouts and all that. So dont limit Combat to "Up Close" only, give us the Tools to enjoy the Game and Combat too. We have so many different ways to build Ships, from close range Shotgun Fighters to long range Railgun Snipers...so please allow us the same on the Ground.
The difference is, that Snipers or "Sharpshooters" are limited. They dont run around in Groups, thats what a Scout is for, and a Scouts Weapon in Odyssey should be the Aphelion. They have to set up their Nest to snipe from, they have limited Ammo (thats what we have already), they have limited Vision through their Scope, and once they have been spotted, they have a Problem...eiher another Sniper kills them, an Airstrike levels their Nest, or someone sneaks up for an easy Knife-Kill and Teabagging.
So far i have not seen a single Enemy that spawned with the Rocket Launcher. So Sharpshooters as in Snipers should have a lower spawnchance than the rest of them. There could be a category called "Special Units". Sharpshooters, Anti Material, and more in the Future.
If you attack a Settlement, Sharpshooters should spawn on specific Points. Roofs. The Roofs in Odyssey are currently the Save-Spots for us. Enemies cant reach us and we can snipe from there. With Sharpshooters spawning on them instead of as random Guards, they would bring a whole new tactical level.
If you have to take out Scavengers, there could be a few further away from the "Main Groups". On the Roofs or other Objects like the Tanks.
Overall the AI needs different behavior Patterns based on Equipment.
Striker: Spawns with Intimidator, Eclipse or C-44. Has high Shield and Armor, tries to go up close and Personal, does not swith to a Pistol. Uses Healthpacks.
Commando: Spawns with AR-50 or Oppressor. Tries to stay at medium Range behind Cover. Throws Grenades.
Scout: Spawns with Aphelion. Tries to stay at medium Range like the Commando, but is more about Precision. Throws Shield-Grenades.
Sharpshooter: Spawns in special locations on Roofs, Towers, or other Objects instead of randomly with other Types. Uses the improved Executioner. Does not use a Flashlight and uses Shield only if hit first. Does not move or run around.
Anti-Material: Spawns as part of High-Security Forces. Uses the L-6 Rocket Launcher, Shields and Healthpacks. Will ruin your day.
Engineering
I admit, i have not tried them all yet. So here are just a few things that i have noticed:
Greater Range: Says that incrases the effective Range. This should also include a Projectile Speed increase as it doesnt matter if your effective Range is 100m or 150m, when you cant hit past the 30m mark.
Reload Speed: For some reason it has almost no effect on the Rocket Launcher. Im not sure how the calculation works, but something is off there.
Scope: Currently the Scope is a joke. It is great on the Shotgun, but thats pretty much it. I and many other players excpected an actual Scope, for a Sniper. This Mod could add a "Target Indicator" like we have in Ships to make it easier to predict enemy movement. "Aim here to hit when the enemy keeps moving at that speed into this direction".
Personally i also think that Upgrading Weapons is far too expensive to not remove Modules again. You need a lot of Material to get a Weapon to G5...and just one wrong Mod completely ruins it.
So...there should be a way to clear Slots again.
HUD
Since we can use Cosmetics on our Armor, it can be quite tricky to identify which one an Enemy is actually using. Could be a Dominator, could be an Artemis that looks like a Dominator. Who knows? So, when we scan a Target, the information we receive should also show things like Weapon and Armor. Two simple lines like "G2 Eclipse | G4 Dominator" would be enough.
Vehicles, Ships and Drones
As mentioned in the Rocket Launcher part already, "Anti Material" Damage feels wrong. But not only that, the other way around too.
If you attack a Settlement with your Ship and sweap your Size 3 Beam Laser across the field...it does nothing. Yet someone with a Plasma Pistol is an actual Danger to your Ship.
The same when you drive your SRV. In Alpha you had a Tank, in Release you have a Suicide-Box. Enemies will shoot you and they will kill you if you dont get out fast enough. Its easier to take on a group of Guardian Sentinels than a group of Scavengers.
Combined Scale Combat works again fine in Games like Battlefield or Planetside. Vehicles are deadly. They are supposed to be.
For Damage-Balance i would like to mention a Rule from the Elite Dangerous Role Playing Game - EDRPG.
| Individual | Vehicle | Ship | |
| Individual | Normal Damage | x2 Damage | x8 Damage | |
| Vehicle | 1/2 Damage | Normal Damage | x4 Damage | |
| Ship | 1/8 Damage | 1/4 Damage | Normal Damage |
Now, how to balance it when someone decides to bring a "Tank" to a "Gunfight" aka SRV and Ship to a Combat Zone?
SRVs are currently already very very bad as they die fast to regular Gunfire. After a change like the one mentioned just now, they would be a bit stronger, but still not Tanks. So they should be fine. Strong, but not too strong. Anti-Material Units could spawn in Combat Zones from time to time if an SRV is detected. That way the SRV would work like a Light Vehicle in Games like Battlefield or Planetside - you can damage them with your Gun, and enough Gunfire destroys them, or you bring a Rocket Launcher and blow them up!
Ships with Dumbfire Missiles are currently the main Problem. There needs to be a way to take them down. One example i have already mentioned in the Rocket Launcher section. Hitting a Ship with a Shield-Piercing Rocket which then destroys or deactivates Hardpoints, but not the entire Ship, that would be a great way and give the Rocket Launcer an actual use, instead of it being a Noobtube. Those Rockets would be immune to Point Defense and Shields due to their Size and Speed. Ships would not recognize them, they would just slip through like a Cargo Canister would.
Another way would be "Tactical Objectives". Anti-Air Turrets could have a Charge-Port on them that you can Overcharge. This could reactivate them for like 30s without an active Power Generator. I tried taking them out with my Challenger already and i lost horribly. So those Turrets would be a great way for Players to deal with other In-Ship-Players.
My Personal Wishlist
Just some things that i would wish for in the Future someday, things to spice Combat up a bit.
- Turn Grenades into another Equipment Part. Let us select which ones we want to bring in a Loadout - like for example 3 Shield Grenades instead of 1 of each.
- More Grenade-Tools. It would be insanely fun to be able to set up a Trap. Remote, Proximity or Laser Mines for example. This could work as a simple Keybind that switches the Mode of a Grenade between Grenade - Remote -Proximity - Laser.
- More Sniper and Shotgun Weapons. Its kinda sad that they are currently limited to Plasma-Only. Well technically the Aphelion at G5 is a good Scout Rifle though.
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