Odyssey - Exploration very Unfriendly

[Straha Yeagar]

Update 2 - The bug/issue report is now in Acknowledged status on the Issue Tracker.

Update - Submitted Issue/Bug report here...

https://issues.frontierstore.net/issue-detail/27424

After spending a bit of time in the Odyssey Alpha, initially focusing on the new features, I have started to engage in my staple exploration game play, and so far, it is not good.

While the new visuals, planetary tech, and life is pretty and a huge step forward, much of the core functionality of exploration I feel is a step backwards.

On the gal map and system map, information and functionality that was readily available is now either buried under multiple menus, or entirely removed. Information such as stellar sub class and luminosity, no longer available. The ability to enter a partial system name and cycle through system, such as using AA-A H to cycle through all of the H mass systems in a sector, no longer available. Mouseover on systems no longer gives popup to bookmark, plot route, or system information, or actually anything at all. Unable to view planetary surface maps from the system Orrery view. Those with ultrawide resolutions understand the issues with the gal map and system map quite well, and Odyssey is a step back even more cumbersome than it currently is. And there is more, but the biggie is...

The ability to manually target a system in gal map and jump to it without a route plotted, no longer available. Given that the route plotter assumes full fuel, thus maximum mass, this makes it impossible to manually plot max range "on fumes" jumps. FSD jumponium jumps, neutron jumps...

As we move into the exploration phase of the Alpha, I am concerned about what other things have been removed or overlooked.

 

[Aeorath]

Thank you for taking the time to report on this, commander. Many of us are waiting to see how exploration will work on Odyssey, and if this goes to pass, it doesn't bode well.

Let us hope it will be worked upon before release.

 

[LifesAJourney]

Devastating news...

 

[CptArcher]

After spending a bit of time in the Odyssey Alpha, initially focusing on the new features, I have started to engage in my staple exploration game play, and so far, it is not good.

While the new visuals, planetary tech, and life is pretty and a huge step forward, much of the core functionality of exploration I feel is a step backwards.

On the gal map and system map, information and functionality that was readily available is now either buried under multiple menus, or entirely removed. Information such as stellar sub class and luminosity, no longer available. The ability to enter a partial system name and cycle through system, such as using AA-A H to cycle through all of the H mass systems in a sector, no longer available. Mouseover on systems no longer gives popup to bookmark, plot route, or system information, or actually anything at all. Unable to view planetary surface maps from the system Orrery view. Those with ultrawide resolutions understand the issues with the gal map and system map quite well, and Odyssey is a step back even more cumbersome than it currently is. And there is more, but the biggie is...

The ability to manually target a system in gal map and jump to it without a route plotted, no longer available. Given that the route plotter assumes full fuel, thus maximum mass, this makes it impossible to manually plot max range "on fumes" jumps. FSD jumponium jumps, neutron jumps...

As we move into the exploration phase of the Alpha, I am concerned about what other things have been removed or overlooked.

I haven't fully investigated all the galmap changes, but I also noticed that it is not as easy to use as it was before. If you make a bug report, I'll look at these too and verify it, please post a link.

 

[stormyuk]

You might want to post this in the feedback thread so the devs have more chance of seeing it.

Gameplay Feedback Phase 2

Greetings Commanders, This thread is for posting your Phase 2 gameplay and design related Odyssey feedback. Please keep each post brief and to the point, stating your observation/suggestion. This will allow us to easily collect and pass along all the feedback. Avoid replying to other posts...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Just watching streams the very same thing occured to me. The UI seems to be overcomplicated on many levels.

 

[Aeorath]

I haven't fully investigated all the galmap changes, but I also noticed that it is not as easy to use as it was before. If you make a bug report, I'll look at these too and verify it, please post a link.

Thank you as well, commander.

Please, if possible, keep us posted how's the information, regarding a planetary body, displayed this time on a system map? It definitely seems that information is now spread across several tabs, as I've noticed from some of the streams yesterday?

o7

 

[Ozric]

I agree that it really does feel that once again explorers have been completely left to the side. I've made a couple of posts in the feedback thread today, one partially about the system map and one about the galaxy map. And I've only played with them briefly. I will post them again here.

System Map

The System Map is confusing and clunky to use now. All of the information is hidden away and for some reason split up. Planetary bodies no longer have a type, or distance to the jump in point. Viewing any information locks you out of movement so if I want to see the planetary details, I have to move the map to the planet, then click details, then if I want to do anything (including zooming in and out) click on the main screen to regain control of the map.

All of the planetary details used to be in the info panel which could be viewed easily, now for some reason the information has been split over two different text boxes, so you can't get all the information at once. Why is surface pressure on one screen, but the atmosphere type and composition on a completely separate screen?

Current

New

Galaxy Map feedback

You can now no longer see what star types are in a system, the system information only displays the Primary star. How are you supposed to look for multiple star systems now? Or spot interesting and possibly unique systems when out exploring?

You can no longer target a system, only plot a route to it. So you can no longer try to work out what a distant object is by finding a system that roughly lines up with it and then use the Galaxy Map to follow along that vector. Also this means that you can't force a jump to a system that you have enough fuel to reach, without replotting your route. For the longest time the route plotter has only taken into account your jump range when fully fuelled, and so even if you plot a route with 1/3 of a tank it would say you need 2 jumps to reach a system you can actually make in one. At least previously we had a way to override that. Now we don't.

Both of these are backward steps in usability.

There are some things I like about the Galaxy Map, but once again you have chosen to hide information away behind more clicks and more windows or in some cases, like above completely remove that information. I don't understand why you would remove things.

The new search bar is accepting inputs with a lot more consistency than it is currently, which is very nice. I do like that it shows you a list as you are typing, very useful if you don't know the name of the system exactly. However I would like to see the return of pressing enter (or clicking the search icon) to take me to the system I have entered, or scroll through the options if only partial. Like it does at the moment, it makes it good if you are searching through clusters with the same prefix.

I realise Exploration is always the bottom of the pile when it comes to improvements and fixes, but to actually hamper us further is very disappointing.

 

[Aeorath]

I agree that it really does feel that once again explorers have been completely left to the side. I've made a couple of posts in the feedback thread today, one partially about the system map and one about the galaxy map. And I've only played with them briefly. I will post them again here.

System Map

The System Map is confusing and clunky to use now. All of the information is hidden away and for some reason split up. Planetary bodies no longer have a type, or distance to the jump in point. Viewing any information locks you out of movement so if I want to see the planetary details, I have to move the map to the planet, then click details, then if I want to do anything (including zooming in and out) click on the main screen to regain control of the map.

All of the planetary details used to be in the info panel which could be viewed easily, now for some reason the information has been split over two different text boxes, so you can't get all the information at once. Why is surface pressure on one screen, but the atmosphere type and composition on a completely separate screen?

Current

New

Galaxy Map feedback

You can now no longer see what star types are in a system, the system information only displays the Primary star. How are you supposed to look for multiple star systems now? Or spot interesting and possibly unique systems when out exploring?

You can no longer target a system, only plot a route to it. So you can no longer try to work out what a distant object is by finding a system that roughly lines up with it and then use the Galaxy Map to follow along that vector. Also this means that you can't force a jump to a system that you have enough fuel to reach, without replotting your route. For the longest time the route plotter has only taken into account your jump range when fully fuelled, and so even if you plot a route with 1/3 of a tank it would say you need 2 jumps to reach a system you can actually make in one. At least previously we had a way to override that. Now we don't.

Both of these are backward steps in usability.

There are some things I like about the Galaxy Map, but once again you have chosen to hide information away behind more clicks and more windows or in some cases, like above completely remove that information. I don't understand why you would remove things.

The new search bar is accepting inputs with a lot more consistency than it is currently, which is very nice. I do like that it shows you a list as you are typing, very useful if you don't know the name of the system exactly. However I would like to see the return of pressing enter (or clicking the search icon) to take me to the system I have entered, or scroll through the options if only partial. Like it does at the moment, it makes it good if you are searching through clusters with the same prefix.

I realise Exploration is always the bottom of the pile when it comes to improvements and fixes, but to actually hamper us further is very disappointing.

I really don't understand why they're making these changes no one really asked for?!

 

[Ozric]

I really don't understand why they're making these changes no one really asked for?!

Well it's Frontier's game they can make whatever changes they want. I don't have an issue with changes being made that no one asked for, I do have an issue with changes being made that actively hamper their playerbase.

It seems to me that the UI of the main game has been changed to fit the new UI in Odyssey, which seems to have been designed without the main game in mind. You only need look at outfitting to see that.

 

[Straha Yeagar]

I haven't fully investigated all the galmap changes, but I also noticed that it is not as easy to use as it was before. If you make a bug report, I'll look at these too and verify it, please post a link.

Issue/Bug report made here...

https://issues.frontierstore.net/issue-detail/27424

OP updated

 

[Aeorath]

Well it's Frontier's game they can make whatever changes they want. I don't have an issue with changes being made that no one asked for, I do have an issue with changes being made that actively hamper their playerbase.

It seems to me that the UI of the main game has been changed to fit the new UI in Odyssey, which seems to have been designed without the main game in mind. You only need look at outfitting to see that.

Well, in case of such changes as this one, it brings forward a question how many from FDEV play from an explorer perspective then?

Change is good, when it brings something useful to the table, or it improves older aspects of gameplay, but this? It's helpful for whom? From a personal standpoint, this is what I do in Frontier's game, exploration, and this is not something I am looking forward to.

I definitely hope this is going to be addressed; I am giving them the benefit of the doubt since this phase is not really about exploration and things might change between now, and subsequent phases or even till this game gets released.

 

[Straha Yeagar]

Well, in case of such changes as this one, it brings forward a question how many from FDEV play from an explorer perspective then?

Change is good, when it brings something useful to the table, or it improves older aspects of gameplay, but this? It's helpful for whom? From a personal standpoint, this is what I do in Frontier's game, exploration, and this is not something I am looking forward to.

I definitely hope this is going to be addressed; I am giving them the benefit of the doubt since this phase is not really about exploration and things might change between now, and subsequent phases or even till this game gets released.

It is important to raise these types of issues as soon as they are spotted, because much of this appears completely deliberate, and if they are not highlighted as early as possible, they will get overlooked.

 

[Aeorath]

It is important to raise these types of issues as soon as they are spotted, because much of this appears completely deliberate, and if they are not highlighted as early as possible, they will get overlooked.

I certainly agree with that.

 

[Orvidius]

I like the changes to the galmap in principle, however the removal of functionality is definitely a problem. Things that were quick and easy to do before, are now either not possible, or require a work-around. For as much as the changes may be a step forward in some ways (or maybe just a step sideways), it's a step backward in other ways.

My fear is that they'll once again say that they can't cater to the edge cases, and this is just how it's going to be (just like with Beyond Chapter 4 and the FSS vs ADS debate).

 

[Chrystoph]

It would be sad if they did two complete generations of mandating how it was going to be without accepting player feedback.

 

[Grisham]

You can no longer target a system, only plot a route to it. So you can no longer try to work out what a distant object is by finding a system that roughly lines up with it and then use the Galaxy Map to follow along that vector. Also this means that you can't force a jump to a system that you have enough fuel to reach, without replotting your route. For the longest time the route plotter has only taken into account your jump range when fully fuelled, and so even if you plot a route with 1/3 of a tank it would say you need 2 jumps to reach a system you can actually make in one. At least previously we had a way to override that. Now we don't.

What you mean you can't target a system? I can target systems just fine example SOL

and plot route

 

[Straha Yeagar]

What you mean you can't target a system? I can target systems just fine example SOL

View attachment 218676

and plot route

View attachment 218677

Yes, you can select a system in the gal map, and target a system in the nav panel, but those are not the same things. Try selecting a system in the gal map as we can do now in Horizons, where we would get the orange triangle. Then go back to your cockpit and try and jump to it. You can't because it is not targeted in gal map.

 

[Ozric]

What you mean you can't target a system? I can target systems just fine example SOL

Plot a route somewhere. Then select another system in the Galaxy Map and try to target it, so that when you exit the Galaxy Map you have that system selected, but your route to the first system is still active.

We'll wait.

 

[Straha Yeagar]

Current jump range...

System I want to jump to is selected, and well within that range, and even confirmed the range on the route plotter there...

Now in Horizons, I would be able to jump directly to it because it would be my targeted system.

But going back to the cockpit, no targeted system..

But because the route plotter still always assumes full fuel mass when calculating the route, regardless of actual fuel level, and actual jump range, even with fastest route, it still has to plot this as a two jump route...

With no option to force that jump that I can clearly and obviously make.

Now, this will work here in the bubble, sort of, but out where stars are low density, where FSD boosts are needed, neutron jumps are needed, they will not work.

 

[Straha Yeagar]

Imagine the scenario in my screen shots above, but without that intermediary system...even though I clearly have the fuel and jump range to make the jump, the current Horizons mechanism for doing this has been removed, and the game will currently not let me make that jump.

Now imagine that out on the fringes in sparse star regions...