Newcomer / Intro OK, that was weird

[Thwarptide]

Yesterday I was doing high rep++++ missions, most of which were above my current rank of post commander, most often they were tycoon or elite. Flying in my Python, 220T worth of cargo space (113 on this particular run) with strong Sheild boosters (x4 1A) chaff along with lasors and multicanonns to handle interdicitions I almost always manage to get out of.
But yesterday something strange happened twice within a 4 hr period. I was yanked out of SC within seconds. I've had these quick yanks before but not wanting to be bothered, managed to get back into SC and proceed on mission. Two times yesterday I wasn't so fortunate. I was toasted each time in a matter of 15 seconds.
I'm confused as to what actually happened or how it happened, but I was literally powerless anyway.
1. Trying to scoot out, each time I was mass locked by 23 (woah that's a big ship) though I was trying to dodge and weave while though fruitlessly. Chaff seemingly ineffective.
2. So decided to turn and fight (within 5 seconds of interdicitions), my sheilds were only down to 2/3rds remaining, but my weapons wouldn't deploy for some reason.... Plan switches, turn towards him, hit the boosters and slip by him long enough for me to get away from the mass lock, before he can turn. Boosters fail to activate.
3. At 10 seconds 1/3 sheilds going fast, 1/2 throttle, ship turns like a slug. Darn, now he's He's into my hull and chipping it fast. I finally see him for a split second real close as he slips past my nose. I think it's a federal gunship
4. Uh oh, my cabin is dark, full loss of power.... POP! (Time to call Allstate).

So what in your experience happened after I was mass locked?
I don't understand the failure of weapons to deploy, nor the sluggish nature of turning when I still had 1/3 of my shielding left? I'm super confused about the failure of the weapons deployment though.

 

[d8veh]

Assuming that it was NPCs that interdicted you, you're making a fundamental mistake. Do not fight any ship that interdicts you. All it does is waste time that you could be gaining something from your missions. If you win the fight, you get a 200cr bounty, and if you lose, you have to rebuy your ship and lose the rep from your abandoned missions plus the value of any cargo you were carrying. It's simply not worth fighting them.

Remedy: Get rid of your weapons so that you won't be tempted. That will make your ship faster and easier to escape. Never look back at who's attacking you. You should be travelling with 4 pips to engines and 2 to shields. Never change that. The moment you get pulled out, boost and boost again as soon as you can. Keep boosting until your FSD can get you back into supercruise. The second boost will get enough distance from the attacker where its weapons can't do you much damage. For cargo and other courier missions, it's important to make your ship as fast as possible, so A-rated thrusters and power distributor as a minimum. If you compromise on those, you'll be a sitting duck. The ship that mass-locked you would most likely have been a T10 or an Anaconda. Both are slugs and probably the easiest to get away from if you use the above procedure. A gunship is also a slug.

Dropping a heatsink after the first boost will break target lock and make it even easier to escape.

The above are general rules. Weight doesn't make much difference to a Python's speed, so you have to ensure that the thrusters and power distributor are the best you can get.

 

[the100thmonkey]

The Anaconda is the only ship with an MLF of 23.

Are you certain you weren't interdicted by a player? That would explain the difficulties you had escaping the interdiction. Fixed weapons fired accuratey would explain both the ineffectiveness of the chaff and the rate that your shields went down. It would also explain why your ship was turning sluggishly - if you were trying to boost turn but had been hit with a weapon using the drag munitions experimental effect (seeker missiles/packhounds or a frag cannon), your engine pips would have had no effect. Scramble spectrum on another weapon could have caused malfunctions. Alternatively, packhound missiles (a Powerplay weapon from Li Yong-Rui) are especially suited to destroying external modules like weapons.

In other words, are you sure you weren't ganked?

 

[Thwarptide]

Assuming that it was NPCs that interdicted you, you're making a fundamental mistake. Do not fight any ship that interdicts you. All it does is waste time that you could be gaining something from your missions. If you win the fight, you get a 200cr bounty, and if you lose, you have to rebuy your ship and lose the rep from your abandoned missions plus the value of any cargo you were carrying. It's simply not worth fighting them.

Remedy: Get rid of your weapons so that you won't be tempted. That will make your ship faster and easier to escape. Never look back at who's attacking you. You should be travelling with 4 pips to engines and 2 to shields. Never change that. The moment you get pulled out, boost and boost again as soon as you can. Keep boosting until your FSD can get you back into supercruise. The second boost will get enough distance from the attacker where its weapons can't do you much damage. For cargo and other courier missions, it's important to make your ship as fast as possible, so A-rated thrusters and power distributor as a minimum. If you compromise on those, you'll be a sitting duck. The ship that mass-locked you would most likely have been a T10 or an Anaconda. Both are slugs and probably the easiest to get away from if you use the above procedure. A gunship is also a slug.

Dropping a heatsink after the first boost will break target lock and make it even easier to escape.

Thanks bunches for chiming in. As you guessed, it was an NPC, BUT.... my decision ito fight was pretty much my last option. But I do like your advice better. The ship definitely wasn't the anaconda, I've helped federal navy forces wack em, but I've never come close to a sluggish t10 other than seeing em in stations.
I'll take yer advice and apply it. If I feel like doing pew pew or take on a navy promotion which envolved pew pew, I'll just slap the weapons and internal mods back on.
I appreciate, very much your criticism and pearls (OK, cheap knock off opals ) of advice and wisdom, Cmdr!
07

 

[Thwarptide]

The Anaconda is the only ship with an MLF of 23.

Are you certain you weren't interdicted by a player? That would explain the difficulties you had escaping the interdiction. Fixed weapons fired accuratey would explain both the ineffectiveness of the chaff and the rate that your shields went down. It would also explain why your ship was turning sluggishly - if you were trying to boost turn but had been hit with a weapon using the drag munitions experimental effect (seeker missiles or a frag cannon), your engine pips would have had no effect.

In other words, are you sure you weren't ganked?

WOAH NELLY, Never heard of "Drag munitions, Experimental".
This would explain why bigger, slow ships would use em. Apparently the experiment works .
I play solo, so it was an npc. But there's nothing that we can use that an NPC can't.
I've read enough posts between here and reddit to know that NPCs do tend to cheat from time to time, too. It's entirely plausible that the NPC (s) had em.
But I will concede the possibility of it being an Anaconda, since I've only see the ship cross my nose for a split second.
And, no, I'm not entirely sure there werent 2 of em, though I did not see a 2nd contact on the scanner. I could have missed seeing the 2nd. I was pretty focused on other operations in the first 10 seconds.

Thanks for chiming in with your observations. We have a nice parting gift for you. A box of eye dropper bottle caps 👁👁.
Seriously though, thank you Cmdr
07

 

[the100thmonkey]

WOAH NELLY, Never heard of "Drag munitions, Experimental".
This would explain why bigger, slow ships would use em. Apparently the experiment works .
I play solo, so it was an npc. But there's nothing that we can use that an NPC can't.

The only NPCs I've seen using experimental effects have been spec-ops wings in conflic zones. NPCs in general do have engineered components though, but only at dangerous, deadly or elite ranks, as far as I remember.

For your own engineering, the experimental effects available for each mod are often invaluable.

I've read enough posts between here and reddit to know that NPCs do tend to cheat from time to time, too. It's entirely plausible that the NPC (s) had em.

To the best of my knowledge, the only "cheats" NPCs partake in is limited to kinetic weapon ammo counts - they're apparently infiinite, although frankly most NPCs die before that becomes apparent. The cheating of NPCs is often... overstated. Shield cell banks and chaff are commonly given as examples of NPCs cheating, but they can--and do--run out of both.

Thanks for chiming in with your observations. We have a nice parting gift for you. A box of eye dropper bottle caps 👁👁.
Seriously though, thank you Cmdr
07

You're very welcome!

 

[Thwarptide]

OK, ditched the weapons, switched out power dist and thrusters to A-rated ($$$). I have no idea why I never thought to put on A rated.
She definitely turns much quicker on her own and incredibly faster than when I got dicted!

 

[heman86]

i once was interdicted by a big ship and not sure what it was but he shoot me once and my weapons stopped working, he kind of deactivated them. ship (covas) also had some weird message i never heard before.

 

[Thwarptide]

i once was interdicted by a big ship and not sure what it was but he shoot me once and my weapons stopped working, he kind of deactivated them. ship (covas) also had some weird message i never heard before.

Makes no sense does it?
They target your weapons, OK sure, I get that, BUT SHEILDS ARE STILL UP AFTER THE FIRST SHOT.
My weapons were useless in the same manner.
No live player could have that much success in the first shot.
Nobody can tell me that NPCs don't cheat as much as people say they do.

 

[heman86]

the ship who did it to me was also a npc. i thought he had some kind of a sepcial weapon who deactivates your weapons for some time. but its definitely no bug because i also got this weird covas message.

 

[Thwarptide]

the ship who did it to me was also a npc. i thought he had some kind of a sepcial weapon who deactivates your weapons for some time. but its definitely no bug because i also got this weird covas message.

The first time he whacked me dead could have been considered a fluke, but the second time in the same way..... That's an NPC cheat. I guess they have to since we're human and we're better than them (enter the Matrix)
I too remember an uncommon msg pop up, only I was too focused on tactics and changing em in the first 10 seconds. Wish I would have paid closer attention. It will happen again I'm sure the next time an elite rated mission comes up for that system again (it will) and I'll pay more than enough attention while hitting the chaff and boosters

 

[Faded Glory]

I'm reckoning that it was an Elite ranked mission, and the incoming enemies (did you get an alert?) for those are four Deadly or Elite Anacondas, one after the other.

What shields do you have on your Python? My Python mission runner can take 180 tons of Cargo, and had otherwise top level and engineered shields, but only totalling ~830 MJ shields with thermal reinforcement, and while I can fight those Anacondas, they will deplete my shields. They aren't pushovers, and while they don't have engineered weapons, they have a decent amount of firepower. They are also surprisingly agile, and the Python is not, again, even mine with engineering cannot keep out of their arc of fire.

Can't say what happened with your weapons. Possibly some heat of combat fumbling with pips? (Not being rude, but it does happen.)

And honestly, the NPC's don't cheat, but at high ranks they really aren't as bad as some on the forums like to make out.

 

[heman86]

really weird, but it only happened once to me in 300h playing the game.
whats also weird is that after i got away and checked the weapons there was no dmg.
thats why I think it has to be some strange ammunition or weapon that deactivates your weapons.

 

[Thwarptide]

I'm reckoning that it was an Elite ranked mission, and the incoming enemies (did you get an alert?) for those are four Deadly or Elite Anacondas, one after the other.

What shields do you have on your Python? My Python mission runner can take 180 tons of Cargo, and had otherwise top level and engineered shields, but only totalling ~830 MJ shields with thermal reinforcement, and while I can fight those Anacondas, they will deplete my shields. They aren't pushovers, and while they don't have engineered weapons, they have a decent amount of firepower. They are also surprisingly agile, and the Python is not, again, even mine with engineering cannot keep out of their arc of fire.

Can't say what happened with your weapons. Possibly some heat of combat fumbling with pips? (Not being rude, but it does happen.)

And honestly, the NPC's don't cheat, but at high ranks they really aren't as bad as some on the forums like to make out.

I had 4 1A Sheild boosters at the time of the first diction. Pips were 3 sys 3 eng
2nd diction had 4 boosters (correction from earlier post & type-O of 3) and 1 chaff, pips were the same. If I could have got my weapons to come up, I would have adjusted pips accordingly.
In both cases I was dead in 15 seconds.

 

[Faded Glory]

I had 4 Sheild boosters at the time of the first diction. Pips were 3 sys 3 eng
2nd diction had 3 boosters and 1 chaff, pips were the same. If I could have got my weapons to come up, I would have adjusted pips accordingly.
In both cases I was dead in 15 seconds.

What shield generator do you have - and do you have any engineering? Can you show the shield stats for your ship?

Why did you have one less booster the second time? Shield boosters are simply modules, or was one destroyed or something? Just trying to help you get to the bottom of this.

Can you confirm the rank of the mission, and did you notice an incoming enemy alert - it comes as a mission critical update. As I said, if it was an Elite mission, incoming enemies are always high ranking Anacondas, and they are not pushovers. 15 seconds does seem quite quick, but much depends on your shields. As I said, those Deadly 'Condas can pack quite a bit of firepower.

 

[the100thmonkey]

Nobody can tell me that NPCs don't cheat as much as people say they do.

Then you are truly lost.

 

[Thwarptide]

What shield generator do you have - and do you have any engineering? Can you show the shield stats for your ship?

Why did you have one less booster the second time? Shield boosters are simply modules, or was one destroyed or something? Just trying to help you get to the bottom of this.

Can you confirm the rank of the mission, and did you notice an incoming enemy alert - it comes as a mission critical update. As I said, if it was an Elite mission, incoming enemies are always high ranking Anacondas, and they are not pushovers. 15 seconds does seem quite quick, but much depends on your shields. As I said, those Deadly 'Condas can pack quite a bit of firepower.

Sheild generator is stock that came with the ship. The only engineering I've done so far on the python is the FSD L3. I might do L4 but as for doing hauling contracts and the occasional salvage, 20ly current works out well for my needs.

I had one less booster the 2nd time to make room for the chaff dispenser, hoping it would help buy time to get out of the situation. However, it's plausible that during the 10 seconds of chaos, when I thought I hit the chaff I may have hit something else. Who knows? It was the same mission as before. 3.4 mill was worth pursuing twice. All boosters are 1A.

The rank of the mission was elite and I was at the time a humble merchant. Hey, they offered it, nice paycheck and had a rep+++++ option.
I've taken elite contracts before and nothing eventful happen or I was able to vector out the attempted interdiction. For that matter there's been a time or two when diction happened so fast that I was pulled out of SC in less than 3 seconds. Apparently those too were big massed ships, but I managed to escape their clutches.

I think d8veh had really good advice on changing mods and advice for simplifying tactics, focusing on escape was probably the best approach.

But, the last two navy rank missions have been "bounty, kill the dern pirate" missions. One harmless rank and the next "mostly harmless". I'm not a skilled fighter. True my lasors went through those shields like butter and the big (or large) multi-cannons quickly ripped through the hulls. But I am growing concerned how I need to learn to configure my ship for the higher ranks.
I may just be happy to settle where I'm comfortable and not pursue further ranks. It's not important to me. More like I set goals for the sake of having em. I have about 4 other goals I work on when I get bored with the others.

 

[Thwarptide]

Then you are truly lost.

Don't you just hate when that happens?

 

[the100thmonkey]

the ship who did it to me was also a npc. i thought he had some kind of a sepcial weapon who deactivates your weapons for some time. but its definitely no bug because i also got this weird covas message.

Your weird COVAS message was, I'm willing to bet, a notification that you had exceded your power capacity and that some modules had been disabled. Good luck firing your weapons when every module on your ship (including your shields) is off.

Learn about module priorities.

Sheild generator is stock that came with the ship. The only engineering I've done so far on the python is the FSD L3. I might do L4 but as for doing hauling contracts and the occasional salvage, 20ly current works out well for my needs.

I had one less booster the 2nd time to make room for the chaff dispenser, hoping it would help buy time to get out of the situation. However, it's plausible that during the 10 seconds of chaos, when I thought I hit the chaff I may have hit something else. Who knows? It was the same mission as before. 3.4 mill was worth pursuing twice. All boosters are 1A.

The rank of the mission was elite and I was at the time a humble merchant. Hey, they offered it, nice paycheck and had a rep+++++ option.
I've taken elite contracts before and nothing eventful happen or I was able to vector out the attempted interdiction. For that matter there's been a time or two when diction happened so fast that I was pulled out of SC in less than 3 seconds. Apparently those too were big massed ships, but I managed to escape their clutches.

You should know that a stock 6E shield on a Python, coupled with 3x 0A shield boosters, gives you 470Mj of shield energy. An Anaconda with 6 plasma accelerators will kill those shields in one volley and do hull damage at the same time - they can lay down greater than 500Mj of damage per shot. Such builds are, to the best of my knowledge, unknown in NPC ships, but the fact remains that an elite ranked Anaconda (it was indisputably an Anaconda if the mass lock factor was indeed 23, as per your post) is not only effectively an aimbot that will definitely hit an inexperienced player with fixed weeapons, but is also easily capable of putting a massive amount of damage downrange in a very short period of time. That's without any engineering or experimental effects on the weapons.

Don't you just hate when that happens?

I hate it when new players resort to magical thinking to explain something that is well wiithin the realms of possibility given the mission they were undertaking!

 

[Faded Glory]

Sheild generator is stock that came with the ship. The only engineering I've done so far on the python is the FSD L3. I might do L4 but as for doing hauling contracts and the occasional salvage, 20ly current works out well for my needs.

I had one less booster the 2nd time to make room for the chaff dispenser, hoping it would help buy time to get out of the situation. However, it's plausible that during the 10 seconds of chaos, when I thought I hit the chaff I may have hit something else. Who knows? It was the same mission as before. 3.4 mill was worth pursuing twice. All boosters are 1A.

The rank of the mission was elite and I was at the time a humble merchant. Hey, they offered it, nice paycheck and had a rep+++++ option.
I've taken elite contracts before and nothing eventful happen or I was able to vector out the attempted interdiction. For that matter there's been a time or two when diction happened so fast that I was pulled out of SC in less than 3 seconds. Apparently those too were big massed ships, but I managed to escape their clutches.

Ok, that's an E rated generator, a couple of hundred MJ total, hopeless thermal resistance... That explains a lot.

Regardless of whether you hit the chaff or not, it won't stop everything hitting you, especially as the Anaconda was probably pretty close to you (and the Python's not a small target).

Yes, the game allows players to take missions above their rank, hence why there are forum posts like yours. Of course, quite often, despite it being an Elite ranked mission often incoming enemies don't turn up (something I think is poor design), but then when it does it's a bit of a shock. You were interdicted by a Deadly (perhaps Elite) ranked Anaconda in what sounds like a very under specced ship. Good learning experience...

To sum up though, the Anaconda had no special weapons - they simply don't at that level of the game, but it knows how to fly and how to shoot at you. It also didn't (doesn't) cheat. The only things NPC's have that players don't is unlimited multi-canon ammo. That's it. Don't really know why you lost the interdiction game so easily, that's not really usual, but once it had you in the ship you were in (I'm going by what you've described), then yes, you were kind of dead meat.

Anyway, take it as a learning experience.