on foot bounties.

[gorgofdoom]

So i'm learning about power play. I went and delivered some marked slaves to a ground base, get out of my ship, and go around scanning people. I find someone with a bounty: Upon finishing the scan they instantly take their gun out and start shooting me. I shoot them back, and they die. Then the settlement security all dogpile into the room and kill me. I apparently hurt one of them in the process and it says i was killed for 'self defense'.... like wasn't I the one who was defending themself?

It doesn't make sense. If i shoot a wanted ship in space, i don't get murdered by a nearby police ship. I get scanned, and a bounty paid to me. is this a bug?

(i didn't have any fines, bounties, or stolen stuff at this point)

 

[Jmanis]

So i'm learning about power play. I went and delivered some marked slaves to a ground base, get out of my ship, and go around scanning people. I find someone with a bounty. Upon finishing the scan they instantly take their gun out and start shooting me. I shoot them back, and they die. Then the settlement security all dogpile into the room and kill me. I apparently hurt one of them in the process and it says i was killed for 'self defense'.... like wasn't I the one who was defending themself?

It doesn't make sense. If i shoot a wanted ship in space, i don't get murdered by a nearby police ship. I get scanned, and a bounty paid to me. is this a bug?

(i didn't have any fines or bounties on my record at this point)

If you are seen scanning the target you will get attacked.

Also, remember this. You're on a base owned by Faction A, and have found someone who belongs to Faction A who is wanted (more than likely, by a faction other than Faction A). So, yes, people will attack you and apply punitive measures for it. The rest of the base attacking you won't count as a crime for them, as they're defending one of their own.

Ship rules are different.

 

[metatheurgist]

Nope. Settlements are corpo locations, corpos are legal gangs. You just did the equivalent of walking into a bikie bar and tried to arrest one of them, if the bikies ran the jurisdiction the bar was in.

 

[Jmanis]

Nope. Settlements are corpo locations, corpos are legal gangs. You just did the equivalent of walking into a bikie bar and tried to arrest one of them, if the bikies ran the jurisdiction the bar was in.

And put a hit on you afterwards.

 

[gorgofdoom]

Nope. Settlements are corpo locations, corpos are legal gangs. You just did the equivalent of walking into a bikie bar and tried to arrest one of them, if the bikies ran the jurisdiction the bar was in.

No i didn't. I just scanned a dude. I did not try to arrest them, or provoke them in any way. They just started blasting because i learned they had a bounty, which i assume is public knowledge.

If the same thing happened in space the scanned ship would ignore me until i started shooting.

 

[metatheurgist]

You served a warrant on them. That's what the scanner is doing.

 

[gorgofdoom]

You served a warrant on them. That's what the scanner is doing.

its a scanner, nothing else, afaik. I have a feeling they would become hostile even if they didn't see me scan them.... will have to experiment.

 

[metatheurgist]

I look forward to the results. I already know the result

 

[gorgofdoom]

Ahh I see the miscommunication. I did not try to clone profiles. It was just a regular scan.

As far as i can tell the only reason they started shooting was because they had a bounty.

 

[Jmanis]

Ahh I see the miscommunication. I did not try to clone profiles. It was just a regular scan.

As far as i can tell the only reason they started shooting was because they had a bounty.

Yes, that's exactly the reason. You were seen doing a regular scan on a target who knows they're wanted... and they're in friendly company.

It's pretty much the same as when I'm wanted or otherwise doing an illegal activity thats going to get me in trouble, and the security scans me. I'll use the time it takes to come up with a plan, and when the scan finishes, I shoot them in the face.

 

[gorgofdoom]

So if i'm in hutton trucker space, and i find a wanted hutton trucker ship, will the ship start shooting me instantly? will local hutton police kill me having done nothing but scan someone, then defend myself from their attack? On the contrary: If i engage the wanted ship, the police even help!

the behavior of on foot NPC's doesn't line up with the behavior in the rest of the game, and thus doesn't make sense.

 

[Jmanis]

So if i'm in hutton trucker space, and i find a wanted hutton trucker ship, will the ship start shooting me instantly? will local hutton police kill me having done nothing but scan someone, then defend myself from their attack? On the contrary: If i engage the wanted ship, the police even help!

Wrong. You're conflating two different things here so let's separate them.

Basic scan: this is when you just look at a target in the center reticle. This identifies, among other basic information, local jurisdiction bounties. This means the local authorities will assist you if you are attacked by them, and there won't be consequences if you initiate combat.

KWS Scan: this is when you use a KWS scan (ships) or the basic scanner mode of your scanner (on foot). This idenifies extrajurisdictional bounties. This is what you are doing when you scan a person with your tool.

The relevant point here is that, if your target was clean initially, and you identify a bounty with your KWS or scanner tool, it will be a crime to attack that ship or person because they're not wanted in that jurisdiction, and local authorities will target you.

Additionally, the people in a base are not "civilians and police"... they're all workers for the same organisation, and the security no different. They also basically operate like a wing; you attack someone who is part of a wing, the rest of the wing attacks, regardless of whether they are wanted locally or not.

So basically, you've rocked up to my nightclub here in say, Australia, as a nobody, and tried to kill my security guard at my nightclub, because there's a death penalty on them in, say, North Korea. Of course I'm going to protect my security guard.

The only inconsistency (which, if i'm wrong, I'm sure someone will correct me) is if you scan a clean ship with a kws and identify an extrajurisdictional bounty, they won't engage immediately.... but maybe they should!

There's a host of other "different" mechanics when it comes to crime in Odyssey... if it's a problem to be different, there's a laundry list of other things that Odyssey does different, but maybe it's just because it's apples and oranges.

 

[varonica]

You walk up to a man in a bar, you pull out a wanted poster and compare his face to the wanted poster and it matches, wanted dead or alive! The bar is filled with his friends, the town is all on his side, he pulls out a gun to stop you taking him in and you shoot him, what result did you expect?

 

[Screemonster]

its a scanner, nothing else, afaik. I have a feeling they would become hostile even if they didn't see me scan them.... will have to experiment.

They would not.

 

[Jmanis]

They would not.

Yep, if you scan them without being seen, they won't react, just like when cloning credentials.

 

[gorgofdoom]

You walk up to a man in a bar, you pull out a wanted poster and compare his face to the wanted poster and it matches, wanted dead or alive! The bar is filled with his friends, the town is all on his side, he pulls out a gun to stop you taking him in and you shoot him, what result did you expect?

The expected result would be that they don't immediately try to murder me for learning something that is commonly shared knowledge. I would also expect to not be murdered by security, just for "reading a poster". Again I did not choose to "take them in" or "try to arrest them". I didn't turn my shields on, take my gun out, nothing. I basically just read the writing on the wall and immediately got shot in the face for it, then security claimed they were "defending themselves" from... my almighty ability to read? (idk maybe i accidentally punched someone turning my shields on, could be, while they were already shooting me in the back)

I was just exploring the tools & got killed because some dude probably littered & had a 1k credit bounty i was never going to risk my life for as a multi-billionaire; does that make sense? There could be a choice to make here: is the bounty worth the risk? but we cannot know that unless we can scan them first, see the bounty, then determine the risk. Instead we just instantly get shot unless we're sneaky about it? even if they have a tiny bounty i'd never care to collect?

there could also be more to this, like maybe dialogue options. Like hey i see you don't mind commiting crimes, wanna see my stock of illegal space loot? But, no, there's no choice, just instant violence.

how would one go about scanning a person who is in a small room, where you simply cannot hide?

Further: why is the cloning mode clearly labeled as illegal, while the bounty scanning mode (that can apparently get you killed just the same) is not?

 

[varonica]

The expected result would be that they don't immediately try to murder me for learning something that is commonly shared knowledge. I would also expect to not be murdered by security, just for "reading a poster".

No, you walked up to his face and confronted him with a wanted poster, dead or alive. Since it's "common knowledge" in the town any stranger who wandered into town and did this must be assumed to be trying to collect on the reward in the poster, "dead or alive," so why on any planet would he wait until you get out your gun and start shooting before taking action? That would be rather stupid of him! You aren't "learning something" you are confronting him with his record, an entirely different thing.

Further: why is the cloning mode clearly labeled as illegal, while the bounty scanning mode (that can apparently get you killed just the same) is not?

Because walking around with a cloned identity to access restricted areas is clearly illegal and identifiable since all the security cards would have identifying details of the owner of the identity in their system, and you are clearly not them, so immediately illegal if you get scanned, whereas if you use common sense and scan for bounties from secret no-one has any way of knowing you have done so and it doesn't show up on scans, so only a problem if you get caught in the action of doing it to a person with a bounty! So you can scan as many people as you want for bounties, not illegal, cloning identity, clearly illegal.

 

[gorgofdoom]

No, you walked up to his face and confronted him with a wanted poster, dead or alive. Since it's "common knowledge" in the town any stranger who wandered into town and did this must be assumed to be trying to collect on the reward in the poster, "dead or alive," so why on any planet would he wait until you get out your gun and start shooting before taking action? That would be rather stupid of him! You aren't "learning something" you are confronting him with his record, an entirely different thing.



Because walking around with a cloned identity to access restricted areas is clearly illegal and identifiable since all the security cards would have identifying details of the owner of the identity in their system, and you are clearly not them, so immediately illegal if you get scanned, whereas if you use common sense and scan for bounties from secret no-one has any way of knowing you have done so and it doesn't show up on scans, so only a problem if you get caught in the action of doing it to a person with a bounty! So you can scan as many people as you want for bounties, not illegal, cloning identity, clearly illegal.

So what you're saying is that scanning someone is randomly equivalent to assaulting them...? It is this state currently, i agree, but i don't think it should be this way.

The scanner should reveal information for the player-- as the tool it clearly is -- not be responded to like it's a weapon on the off chance the target actually has information to reveal. (occluding our ability to actually do anything with the information learned) It feels very much like gambling, which i don't like out of context. If Fdev wants to have gambling in ED they should add casinos. Call it what it is, and people who want that will love it, while those who don't need not go there.

It absolutely doesn't make sense to me because if everyone acted like this, these people wouldn't live very long. Like "oh no that guy just learned i dropped a banana peel 200 lightyears from here, better murder them!" :smh:

anywho just to express positivity: thank you all for participating in this discussion.

 

[varonica]

So what you're saying is that scanning someone is randomly equivalent to assaulting them...? It is this state currently, i agree, but i don't think it should be this way.

Yes it is, just like if you came up to me in real life and scanned my bank card using an RFID scanner, illegal and if I had a system to detect your actions I would be quite entitled to detain you in a citizens arrest until the authorities arrived. I wouldn't shoot you because I am a law abiding citizen, but these people you are scanning obviously aren't, and they will shoot you if they catch you. Welcome to life, it's not always what we want but it's what we are stuck with.

Citizens arrests legal here:

• They reasonably suspect that the suspect has committed or is committing an arrestable offence;
• The suspect is doing an act that the person is entitled to prevent under section 24.

 

[Koma Pahu]

So what you're saying is that scanning someone is randomly equivalent to assaulting them...? It is this state currently, i agree, but i don't think it should be this way.

The scanner should reveal information for the player-- as the tool it clearly is -- not be responded to like it's a weapon on the off chance the target actually has information to reveal. (occluding our ability to actually do anything with the information learned) It feels very much like gambling, which i don't like out of context. If Fdev wants to have gambling in ED they should add casinos. Call it what it is, and people who want that will love it, while those who don't need not go there.

It absolutely doesn't make sense to me because if everyone acted like this, these people wouldn't live very long. Like "oh no that guy just learned i dropped a banana peel 200 lightyears from here, better murder them!" :smh:

anywho just to express positivity: thank you all for participating in this discussion.

Maybe you should try some street photography. A perfectly legal action.

I’ve had many people confront me when using my clearly professional camera, but most are appeased when you have them a business card and explain that you’re a professional photographer.

However some, even those going about their lawful business with no bounties on their heads, will get irate at you and threaten you with violence.

Now imagine a situation where you randomly photograph a fugitive, or a member of a criminal gang, and what do you think their reaction is likely to be?

Now transfer that to a galaxy when you get shot for taking too long to exit a station…