Open Betas.

Stealthie

Stealthie
Seems like players are the ones who've been doing FDev's Quality Control for the last half decade and FDev have now recognised this to be the case.

So, how about, say, double Arx (up to 800 Arx per week) and a free "Test Pilot" paintjob for anybody who spends more than a certain length of time in each Beta Server?
 
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M00ka

M00ka
As long as it is a legitimate Beta, not the weak excuse they had for 3.3. Lets be honest, for a lot the Beta is just an excuse to go a bit wild, buy ships you normally can't buy, perform actions you normally wouldn't. There was what, a week between the Beta closing, only an idiot would expect any reported bugs from the Beta would be fixed in that time. Let FD have the intestinal fortitude to finish the Beta, collate all the responses from the players and then apply remedial action to rectify those bugs. Just having a Beta with nothing done is just a waste of time.

Also, don't forget that the 3.3 Beta showed is that some players will still complain bitterly about what is in the Beta even if they never played the Beta :(
 

Stealthie

Stealthie
M00ka said:
As long as it is a legitimate Beta, not the weak excuse they had for 3.3. Lets be honest, for a lot the Beta is just an excuse to go a bit wild, buy ships you normally can't buy, perform actions you normally wouldn't. There was what, a week between the Beta closing, only an idiot would expect any reported bugs from the Beta would be fixed in that time. Let FD have the intestinal fortitude to finish the Beta, collate all the responses from the players and then apply remedial action to rectify those bugs. Just having a Beta with nothing done is just a waste of time.

Also, don't forget that the 3.3 Beta showed is that some players will still complain bitterly about what is in the Beta even if they never played the Beta :(
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Indeed.

It's not just FDev who use Open Beta's as a publicity stunt but if they're going to start making proper use of them they probably need to figure out a way to structure the Beta's usefully.

Perhaps they could set it up so the only missions shown on the mission-boards are related to the Beta and a player has to take, and complete, the missions to earn the rewards?
So, you'd have missions like "Buy, upgrade and fly [ship] for 20 hours" or "Fit new exploration tools and travel at least 25,000Ly using them" to complete.
 

M00ka

M00ka
Stealthie said:
Indeed.

It's not just FDev who use Open Beta's as a publicity stunt but if they're going to start making proper use of them they probably need to figure out a way to structure the Beta's usefully.

Perhaps they could set it up so the only missions shown on the mission-boards are related to the Beta and a player has to take, and complete, the missions to earn the rewards?
So, you'd have missions like "Buy, upgrade and fly [ship] for 20 hours" or "Fit new exploration tools and travel at least 25,000Ly using them" to complete.
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Spot on mate. Although some here wouldn't like it, in my opinion the Beta should only have a passing resemblance to the live servers. Those missions you mentioned should be the norm in Beta (and the only ones). Missions like:
  • Perform 20 unassisted (i.e. not using the ADC) take off's and landings on each sized pad on the Fleet Carrier. Then perform the same actions using the ADC. Report any failures or problems.
  • If FD introduce a new ship, everyone is given one in Beta and have to fly it a certain number of hours. Include mandatory tasks like fuel scooping (to check for overheating), trying to increase speed, using it as a miner, having it perform 'x' number of FSD jumps.
God I could go on, you definitely have me thinking. Sure a lot won't like this type of playing style, but this is what a Beta needs. It is just up to FD to have the guts to introduce it and whether the crying and bleating.
 

Stealthie

Stealthie
M00ka said:
Spot on mate. Although some here wouldn't like it, in my opinion the Beta should only have a passing resemblance to the live servers. Those missions you mentioned should be the norm in Beta (and the only ones). Missions like:
  • Perform 20 unassisted (i.e. not using the ADC) take off's and landings on each sized pad on the Fleet Carrier. Then perform the same actions using the ADC. Report any failures or problems.
  • If FD introduce a new ship, everyone is given one in Beta and have to fly it a certain number of hours. Include mandatory tasks like fuel scooping (to check for overheating), trying to increase speed, using it as a miner, having it perform 'x' number of FSD jumps.
God I could go on, you definitely have me thinking. Sure a lot won't like this type of playing style, but this is what a Beta needs. It is just up to FD to have the guts to introduce it and whether the crying and bleating.
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It might take a bit of effort, although probably not that much, but FDev could actually develop standard "tools" to test things out.
For example, they could create a USS template where ever-tougher ships (or groups of ship) spawn and you need to explode 'em all then call it a "Gauntlet USS".
You then create a Beta-Server mission called "Run the Gauntlet", where players are asked to, say, outfit a new ship with specific modules/weapons and engage with 20 Gauntlet USS's and report their findings.

To be fair, simply playing the game does reveal a lot of bugs but if FDev really want to make use of Beta's they probably need to come up with some tools to focus the testing properly... and provide rewards to encourage players to conduct the testing.
 

M00ka

M00ka
Rubbernuke said:
Bug bounties. Find a bug and if its valid get Arx for taking the time to do so.
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That would work as long as FD give those participating a firm definition of what constitutes a bug. Remember there are some here who still say the FSS is a bug .....
 

Rubbernuke

Rubbernuke
M00ka said:
That would work as long as FD give those participating a firm definition of what constitutes a bug. Remember there are some here who still say the FSS is a bug .....
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True. How I imagined it would be that for every bug report you do for an obvious technical problem that gets verified, you get say, 10 Arx when the beta ends. It does not matter if you find the same bugs because it makes everyone want to confirm them.

Either way I think Arx is a good way to reward people who take time to test properly and that it scales to effort.
 

Ian Doncaster

Ian Doncaster
Stealthie said:
To be fair, simply playing the game does reveal a lot of bugs but if FDev really want to make use of Beta's they probably need to come up with some tools to focus the testing properly... and provide rewards to encourage players to conduct the testing.
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For the sort of bugs players have been suggesting beta tests recently to prevent, this is exactly what needs doing, too. The bugs in September's update by and large weren't in "try out the new tutorial and see if you can break it" but in "try to do the same mining you've always done" or "get the mission board to work in the first place".

Even for new features, I'd hope that sort of "do X, get Y" testing was already being done internally - the value of setting 100s of players loose on a Beta environment is that they might try things that weren't even considered when developing the internal test scripts, or combinations of actions that can't all be automated (e.g. "do X get Y" works fine in 99% of cases but not if the player has switched from a large ship to a medium earlier in the session).
 

M00ka

M00ka
Rubbernuke said:
True. How I imagined it would be that for every bug report you do for an obvious technical problem that gets verified, you get say, 10 Arx when the beta ends. It does not matter if you find the same bugs because it makes everyone want to confirm them.

Either way I think Arx is a good way to reward people who take time to test properly and that it scales to effort.
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Yeah I like the idea of Arx rewards but I would still go one step further. A specialised decal for those that sign up for the Beta and perform 50% (the amount is just a guess but lets say 'actually does something'). The decal signifies that the member participated in the Beta and the ARCs are a reward for not only finding a bug but also filling out the reporting form.

I could see some getting involved in this.
 

Kenneth McGrew

Kenneth McGrew
i hope the return of betas (from old style) dies a slow death or Frontier completely rethink how to do it.

IMO, and only my opinion of course, Beta forum access (write access) should be granted to those with beta installed, & (the big and bit) if there is a thread / post in beta forum not related to a bug it should be deleted immediately and the OPs beta posting privileges removed.

that way they can concentrate on solving bugs and leave their opinions outside of beta.

beta forums should follow the guise of the old bug forum with everything else deleted.
 

MDHansen

M
Kenneth Mcgrew said:
i hope the return of betas (from old style) dies a slow death or Frontier completely rethink how to do it.

IMO, and only my opinion of course, Beta forum access (write access) should be granted to those with beta installed, & (the big and bit) if there is a thread / post in beta forum not related to a bug it should be deleted immediately and the OPs beta posting privileges removed.

that way they can concentrate on solving bugs and leave their opinions outside of beta.

beta forums should follow the guise of the old bug forum with everything else deleted.
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And such subforum should also have a handfull of dedicated Mods, being in direct contact with the Devboss'. Not just send a poke and a PM across the floor and it dissapears in to the void. I'd say this is common sense, but I know better... :unsure:

EDIT: heck, the devboss' should look through it every evening. Put it in the jobdescription
 

RamirezKurita

R
Rubbernuke said:
Bug bounties. Find a bug and if its valid get Arx for taking the time to do so.
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I'd also like to add that you should get ARX for identifying balance problems in beta. Betas shouldn't just be about bug fixing, but also making sure that all content is balanced and works correctly (not just working technically). You just have to look at StarCraft II that literally spent years in beta undergoing balance fixes even after all the bugs were fixed.

There should be rewards for winning PvP tournaments in the betas (actual organised ones that are accessible via in-game mission boards, not just player led ones), or for earning the most credits per hour over a period of 3 consecutive hours; all to encourage players to find the most broken things in the game and exploit them so that FD can get some proper data before the live game hits. They could even place limits on individual betas to allow for greater control to help data gathering, such as only allowing small ships in the beta, or carefully controlling the matchups for PvP matches.

Betas shouldn't just be "grind this, get rewards", the rewards should be for breaking the game. Offer rewards for breaking the game, then it encourages players to attempt to break the game in creative ways that the devs might not have foresaw.
 
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