General Open bgs vs solo bgs

[Jmanis]

The BGS is not set up for Open really- it works via layers of abstractions and even in Open you can never really know who is influencing what.

For example you don;t know who players support, and that all activity is pooled into buckets so its like trying to sort out cooked spaghetti.

Powerplay is as close to an Open friendly system as you can get- it has few to no abstractions, all activity is non-pooled and possible to track activity from beginning to end.

Yep.

Powerplay was set up because, among other reasons, FD did not expect players to concentrate on factions and use them as a competitive layer to the game.

So PP was born because FD knew the BGS wasn't balanced.

I joined a Squadron that brings players from my country to play together. They have a Minor Faction so I would do missions for the faction just because it was fun for me to see it grow, to have a place in this huge space that feels like it is yours.

I want to correct this.

The Squadron you joined don't "have" a faction. They support one, and anyone can support any faction.

No player or squadron owns any faction in the game. They are entirely NPC occupied. The space a faction owns is not your space. It is the factions... and again, you do not own or have membership of [1]the faction.

[1] and before we go there, a pledge is not "membership" or mutual, nor does it even need to be recognised by the pledged entity.

I can take the pledge to another country right now. Doesn't mean any country recognises it.

 

[Miscellaneous]

A friend gave a good point today, that open play could receive a multiplier for inf background simulation to incentivize more people to play in open, I came from ps4 to pc and actually being able to fly regularly in a wing is great... Don't know if something like this already exists but everyone I play with likes this idea.

That is a nice compromise; the traditional idea is that solo/pg modes should not count for the influence. I'm firmly in that camp. But it could be a bonus, that is a nice compromise.

It would certainly encourage players to weaponise the block feature if a bonus for Open were implemented for any game feature....

Sorta. That's why Mr. Mayhard in conjunction with the noon family trust propose a C&P update that would obviate block lists!

Essentially, no it couldn't.

Uh essetially, could just void (or reduce) any influence reward on the mission if the commander leaves open mode to manage that. Eh?

 

[Darrack]

And another thread

O7

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Uh essetially, could just void (or reduce) any influence reward on the mission if the commander leaves open mode to manage that. Eh?

Oh, yes, it's certainly possible to suggest putting in a whole bunch of extra rules to manage this by tracking the provenance of things a lot more closely. It just ends up needing a lot of extra rules which are neither consistent nor transparent (and therefore very hard to tell if they're working) and still have a bunch of loopholes, because "BGS-affecting activity" was never designed to be separated out this way. The old "Open only Powerplay" idea would have worked precisely because everything in Powerplay is only used for that, so having it completely disappear on mode switch is fine.

As an obvious case, a credit donation mission can be taken and completed entirely in Open without ever leaving the station (whether or not the credits used to do so were obtained in Open is irrelevant) ... and just sitting at a station taking and completing every other faction's donation missions can put a lot of counter-pressure on to block an expansion.

A lot of other rules could be worked around similarly:
- fly to HazRES in Solo
- relog to Open once there
- jump out of system and take Apex back to hand-in station once done
... virtually invisible while collecting, impossible to meaningfully intercept while handing in. Exploration data even more so since that's certainly not going to be prevented during the collection phase.

So you'd end up with the situation where people who didn't particularly want to play BGS in Open would just exploit all the loopholes anyway (while being sure to remain logged in on outpost pads defensively), while people who didn't want to play BGS at all would be encouraged that "it's polite to play in Solo if you don't care about the BGS" by the min-maxers, which seems like a lose-lose situation.

 

[Darkfyre99]

So you'd end up with the situation where people who didn't particularly want to play BGS in Open would just exploit all the loopholes anyway (while being sure to remain logged in on outpost pads defensively), while people who didn't want to play BGS at all would be encouraged that "it's polite to play in Solo if you don't care about the BGS" by the min-maxers, which seems like a lose-lose situation.

Not to mention that if random players (regardless of mode) aren't working on behalf of the faction you're supporting, then you've failed at BGS manipulation.

 

[Dragsham]

All the above wiles & way rounds lead to only one conclusion.
Open only sandbox. No more p2p no more modes.
Not going to happen. Which is a shame.
Because games that have no instancing or loading screens are the way forward.
In my opinion of course.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Sorta. That's why Mr. Mayhard in conjunction with the noon family trust propose a C&P update that would obviate block lists!

With all the respect that this statement is due, nonsense.

 

[SteveWW57]

So, if the blocking list and modes go, how does a player get rid of such as pad blockers?

Steve

 

[Robert Maynard]

So you'd end up with the situation where people who didn't particularly want to play BGS in Open would just exploit all the loopholes anyway (while being sure to remain logged in on outpost pads defensively), while people who didn't want to play BGS at all would be encouraged that "it's polite to play in Solo if you don't care about the BGS" by the min-maxers, which seems like a lose-lose situation.

.... plus the fact that players would be able to switch "Opens" at will, without moving to either Solo or Private Groups.

 

[Dragsham]

My home system is near Jacksons lighthouse. A very popular neutron star for jumping almost anywhere in the bubble depending on what ship you use and it's engineered capability.
As a smuggler I use it alot.
In open..
Which does lead to some weird encounters. Not gankers but mission runners in all kinds of ships. Cutters, kraits, etc.
Not the fdl murderboats. Did see one today actually. But l was buffed and high waked before he even turned round.
It's that risk that makes open fun.

 

[Dragsham]

So, if the blocking list and modes go, how does a player get rid of such as pad blockers?

Good point.
Rammers too.
And murder gank wings camping an asset.
Horrible stuff but that's space for ya.
CGs suffer from all of the above hence most just making life easier and going solo or pg.
There's no fix for some things. Normally there's figured out workarounds but not for everything.

 

[Miscellaneous]

Leave it at the CMDR's plain suggestion and shaddap you nincompoops. We're collectively acting like ass-hats and know-it-alls, adding a bunch of crap to the simple suggestion which could live alone but is digressing directly into https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/the-open-v-solo-v-groups-thread.607291/unread

So if you love the last word being that the entire noon family are included in such a bunch of ass-hats, here's your opportunity (to let it be!). Have a happy day in any case!

 

[EddDoloroso]

I must say that the state of this discussion is pure sadness.

I keep remembering when I met a beautiful girl on my way home on the bus in my first year at university. She kept looking at me and when I looked at her I knew that I would live happily for the rest of my life If I would marry her. There were lots of beautiful girls in my campus but that one was different. For the remaining years until I graduated, I kept taking buses to the campus and I never found her again. And I just can't forget the scene in my head and I forgot many things from those years.

It's just like the whole Solo/PG vs Open, PowerPlay, BGS, P2P, Instancing and whatever other related discussions. The beautiful girl is right before our eyes and looking at us but we keep getting buses to the campus and never talking to her.

And when reasonable people like @Dragsham or @August Lagrange say: "I think we should talk to the girl" (you get the metaphor), people keep saying "oh, but the Kickstarter", "oh but the PVP", "oh, but the design"

THROW THE DESIGN AWAY. TALK TO THE GIRL. JUST TALK TO HER.

I just feel that we are going to see the climate and capitalism collapse before seeing these dreams fulfilled. Dreams of having fun. And all the discussions we are having are going to be erased when the servers start being abandoned.

I decided that I'm going to find a remote system at the border of the bubble, adopt a minor faction and try to make it grow. It's the closest I can get to my idea of fun. Lots of things can go wrong but I don't care. And If you want to know how I feel about the state of things today, listen to this, translation #1.

 

[Ozric]

I turn my back for one minute... (well 5 days seemingly)

Suggestion noted and the thread should have been reported/redirected and locked at that point. You can all go back to the hotel now thank you.