Open Ganker and bounty hunter

[Taupe]

ATM Ganker have royal life just wait at the hot spot spawn kill ppl or just FSD when bounty hunter come

Ganker destroy the open community, but open pvp is a good thing. So there is a idea :

Ganker should become visible in the galaxymap when there ship have killed some friendly player (like 3 or 5) by using something like a galaxy module in your ship

This should be allow more ppl to try open AND this not destroy the pirate gameplay (yeah a ganker is not a pirate, a pirate ask for ressource scna you and speak with you a ganker just kill you for grief)

 

[Dillon Fallon]

The problem I see is that gankers like PvP. Having a flag appear on their position encouraging other players to come find them for PvP is probably exactly the sort of thing they would want. All I see this doing is encouraging ganking so they can get the flag, which probably wasn't the idea.

I'm just a player with a significant bounty on my ships and to be honest I'd like it if this were applied to me.

 

[Ganogati]

They've needed a counter-gameplay for ganking for some time. Of course they could just make NPC police actually worth something, but they could also make a game of it and allow players to bounty hunt each other. This would create one of the possible back-and-forth tools a sandbox game can thrive on.

So yea, I'm all for a new type of fine that can't just be paid off at an NPC and marks you to be "tracked" by player BHers for a while.

 

[posthy]

Simple: Remove the rebuy/nsurance possibility from gankers. If you're wanted for player killing, you're not allowed to rebuy your ship if it gets destroyed. So bounties actually get a meaning and gankers need to consider a pretty high risk: they might lose their ship for real.

 

[Hellfire85]

Simple: Remove the rebuy/nsurance possibility from gankers. If you're wanted for player killing, you're not allowed to rebuy your ship if it gets destroyed. So bounties actually get a meaning and gankers need to consider a pretty high risk: they might lose their ship for real.

So what if I'm pledged to Hudson, find an Imperial player in a neutral system (high or medium sec) and decide they pose a threat? He runs with crimes on, I get a bounty but I did my job and played my role as Fed player. Do I have to deal with the stupid consequences for doing my job as s Federal combat pilot who's task is to take down Imperials?
Thanks but no thanks. This ruins some legit gameplay and heavily punishes Powerplay focused players.

 

[CMDR_LS]

WoW "warmode" has that where gankers get a bounty on their head by the opposing faction and everybody can see their exact location on the map. They get a flag icon so you know exactly where they are at. It works great because I've seen people teaming up just to take down the player even if the reward for killing him is useless crap.

 

[Hellfire85]

WoW "warmode" has that where gankers get a bounty on their head by the opposing faction and everybody can see their exact location on the map. They get a flag icon so you know exactly where they are at. It works great because I've seen people teaming up just to take down the player even if the reward for killing him is useless crap.

And I've seen people teaming up to take down gankers but they just got steamrolled in the end.
You want to give gankers a reason to keep ganking? Cuz that's how you give a reason for ganking.
Kill people, get flagged, get players try and take you down, get more kills.
A lot of the gankers are a way better than the "lawful" PvPers in ED. And a bunch of randoms teaming up, especially if consisting of "casual" PvPers, won't do much more than become more kills to boast about.
But tbh, I'd be perfectly fine with that.

 

[Arvel Yael]

The problem I see is that gankers like PvP. Having a flag appear on their position encouraging other players to come find them for PvP is probably exactly the sort of thing they would want. All I see this doing is encouraging ganking so they can get the flag, which probably wasn't the idea.

I'm just a player with a significant bounty on my ships and to be honest I'd like it if this were applied to me.

PVP implies a meeting of equals. Gankers don't like that.
Not only do they prefer to jump on ships "for teh lulz", they prefer to jump on massively inferior ships that cannot fight back.
That's what seperates an actual ganker from a mere tango whisky alpha tango..

 

[Brrokk]

I have a new idea. A damage multiplier applied to all damage to your ship if you have notoriety.

 

[Dillon Fallon]

PVP implies a meeting of equals. Gankers don't like that.
Not only do they prefer to jump on ships "for teh lulz", they prefer to jump on massively inferior ships that cannot fight back.
That's what seperates an actual ganker from a mere tango whisky alpha tango..

That someone ganking me would be a very bottom tier PvPer isn't an assumption I'd want to make.

If we go with that though, let's look at Deciat. You don't need a flag to know that here is where you find gankers. If lawful PvPers are so much better, why is that still a ganking hotspot?

 

[Arvel Yael]

If we go with that though, let's look at Deciat. You don't need a flag to know that here is where you find gankers. If lawful PvPers are so much better, why is that still a ganking hotspot?

I'm not sure I follow. You might as well be asking "if law abiding folks are better than chavs, why is this neighborhood full of chavs?"

 

[Dillon Fallon]

I'm not sure I follow. You might as well be asking "if law abiding folks are better than chavs, why is this neighborhood full of chavs?"

The central premise of the thread is that gankers are highlighted on the gal map so lawful players know where they are. My argument is that you could add whatever marker you want, it's not going to change anything as lawful players already know where the gankers can be found. Knowing where they are doesn't mean it'll improve anything when you look at how things are now.

 

[Morbad]

They've needed a counter-gameplay for ganking for some time.

There are mechanisms--generally those regarding consequences and instancing transitions--that are unlikely to change, that prevent this from being practical.

PVP implies a meeting of equals.

No it doesn't.

Simple: Remove the rebuy/nsurance possibility from gankers. If you're wanted for player killing, you're not allowed to rebuy your ship if it gets destroyed. So bounties actually get a meaning and gankers need to consider a pretty high risk: they might lose their ship for real.

I'd rather not expand the CMDR/NPC dichotomy with regards to how the setting treats them any further.

I'm all for plausibly harsh consequences, but NPC murders are already treated the same as destruction of almost completely insured CMDR property, which feels absurd in most jurisdictions, even if the Pilot's Federation is supposed to have special privledges.

 

[Arvel Yael]

The central premise of the thread is that gankers are highlighted on the gal map so lawful players know where they are. My argument is that you could add whatever marker you want, it's not going to change anything as lawful players already know where the gankers can be found. Knowing where they are doesn't mean it'll improve anything when you look at how things are now.

That's fine and it would be quite a noble goal except for one very obvious state of affairs that non-PVPers/non-other-peoples'-content are already aware of.

Lawful players know that the gankers are all in open.

No it doesn't.

True I suppose. If you're a ganker there's no reason why you'd ever pick a target capable of fighting back. Failing at trolling has got to be one of the few things worse than attempting it in the first place.

 

[Dillon Fallon]

Lawful players know that the gankers are all in open.

Yep. Gankers are in open and right now will be ganking players in Deciat. Lawful players know where they are and there's not a thing they can do about it. In the face of that, what use is a marker showing where gankers are?

 

[Morbad]

Lawful players know that the gankers are all in open.

Not all the time they aren't--quite a few of them spend huge amounts of time in Solo or Group--but this is entirely beside the point anyway.

Most experienced players feel that chasing down other experienced CMDRs is a lost cause because of how easy it is to foil attempts at destroying them and how irrelevant the consequences are for losing a ship even if, by some miracle, you actually bring down a CMDR who knows what they are doing, who doesn't want to be shot down.

If you're a ganker there's no reason why you'd ever pick a target capable of fighting back.

Over generalizations invariably lead to miscategorizations. About the only common thread among 'gankers' is that they frequently engage targets while they have the upper hand. This covers a huge spectrum of player motives and skill levels.

For example, I'll use Andy, a fairly notorious and indiscriminate Deciat ganker (who also spends about half his time in Solo, apparently farming materials for premium ammo). Andy attacks my CMDR almost every time my CMDR is in the same instance. He's used entire gank wings to try to shoot down my explorer DBX, but he's also pulled over my CMDR's dedicated combat vessels to attack them, while alone, with experimental builds that he knows will put him at a disadvantage.

Anyway, if your assertion were true, I'd not:
1. Shoot down or drive off a significant fraction of gankers that attack my CMDR.
2. Encounter a nearly similarly significant fraction of gankers that my CMDR has to flee from, while he's in a combat vessel.
3. See such a large overlap between ganker CMDRs and commanders engaging in other forms of PvP.

I'm not sure where such presumptions come from, but they'll seem foreign to most anyone who has had significant experience fighting against and/or with them.

 

[Arvel Yael]

In real life, the law-abiding folks wouldn't be law-abiding if they gunned down the entire neighborhood's chav population. In Elite, they would be, and would also be paid for the service.

Now there's an idea .

 

[Taupe]

Having a flag appear on their position encouraging other players to come find them for PvP is probably exactly the sort of thing they would want. All I see this doing is encouraging ganking so they can get the flag, which probably wasn't the idea.

Not at all ! Generally Ganker run away fthe fastest they can when bounty hunter are coming.
The Ganker are generally bad in fair pvp.. you dont need skill to wait up a inge station to kill..

Simple: Remove the rebuy/nsurance possibility from gankers. If you're wanted for player killing, you're not allowed to rebuy your ship if it gets destroyed. So bounties actually get a meaning and gankers need to consider a pretty high risk: they might lose their ship for real.

This should be also a great option ! maybe better than mine

 

[Ganogati]

Yep. Gankers are in open and right now will be ganking players in Deciat. Lawful players know where they are and there's not a thing they can do about it. In the face of that, what use is a marker showing where gankers are?

They're going to run, and when they do it'll help them be tracked. The point is that they are prey, and there's currently no good mechanisms for the predators to catch their prey.

 

[Ganogati]

Not at all ! Generally Ganker run away fthe fastest they can when bounty hunter are coming.
The Ganker are generally bad in fair pvp.. you dont need skill to wait up a inge station to kill..

This is generally pretty true in almost every MMO. It's why skilled PvPers in games like EVE or Shadowbane or Ultima would make videos of themselves hunting and killing gankers. At the end of the day, gankers are low skill and just looking for easy wins. Some of the best known names in EVE PvP are folks who go after gank groups solo and wipe the floor with them.

At the end of the day gankers are one trick ponies who rely on cheap shots when you aren't expecting it, the hope that high alpha takes you out right away, or on outnumbering you with a blob of other gankers. The real PvPers in most games tend to prey on those types, since real PvPers are generally either better at dodging (if applicable), run more durable PvP builds or know how to keep their cool in a drawn out battle. Gankers tends to panic hard once they're the one who get attacked, so it makes em easy pickings for someone who actually knows how to handle a fair (or even unfair) fight in a game.

They basically choose the ganking playstyle because it's the cheapest and easiest route to feel like they are "winning", since they don't really have the skill to win in other ways. They're the bottom feeders of PvP, cheap shotting unprepared ships and hoping to pop em before a fight can happen or flying in a blob hoping the their numbers will save them.

Amusingly, they're also always the first to come to forums and whine that something is OP when they accidentally attack an actual PvPer who mops the floor with both them and their blob, too. You see that a lot in games like EVE and the like. There are quite a few streaming PvPers who devote themselves to getting caught up in ganks and then utterly demolishing them. Vids of a single high skilled player with an amazing ship build getting caught in bubbles of 8+ players and being the last one standing. Steaming has made it more entertaining for the masses, but this sort of thing has been going on since the days of Ultima.

It would be nice if this game gave the actual pvp players more tools to catch their prey.