Opinion - We're Losing our Way.

I'm not going to address specific issues as there are more than enough threads on the various subjects already.

I'm going to talk about the 'feel' of the game. I began Elite just after release of v1.0. On the first day, the learning curve was steep and the challenge of just getting off the launch pad with mouse and keyboard was daunting. I took several dozen trips into Settings to get my key binds just right. I didn't go into supercruise for an hour, as I wanted to feel comfortable flying the ship. I truly felt challenged and the reward of getting that little Sidey do my bidding was incredible.

My first mission was a Black Box recovery for 17K which involved a series of embarrassing overshoots into a USS as I learned throttle control. The 7 second rule being unknown to me at the time. I persevered through that, the cargo scooping and return to the station. 2.5 hours to launch off the pad, recover a Black Box and return. And it was magnificent. The next night, I did more missions and slowly accumulated more money. Within a week, I had enough to grab a C-rated Eagle and RES became my hunting grounds. When I got my first Cobra, I was like Leo DeCaprio on the bow of the Titanic. King of the World.

Two years later, the game has changed dramatically. First, massive kudos to DB and his team for maintaining the central vision. If you watch the KS videos and hear DB talking about the game and it's future, then see what we have today, you see very little is different. That isn't the issue. The challenge in Elite: Dangerous is slowly disappearing. When I first began, I was nervous as I had one, maybe two rebuys covered. I had to be careful, keep my eyes open and think about what I needed to do. I died, many times. However, I was able to learn from the experiences and move on. I made more than I lost, and incrementally I acquired more assets and ships. From the Cobra, I got a T-7 and traded my way into an AspX over several weeks of play.

Today, money is so easy to make that people are in Anacondas in a week, which is frakking ridiculous IMHO. There's no suspense anymore. People have fifty rebuys covered in the bank and so they no longer have any concerns about dying. Indeed, they become cavalier and start doing stupid things as a result. There's no more incentive to learn how to do things right, the element of danger is grossly reduced. Why is this?

Frontier is giving in to vocal players who feel making more money makes for a better game. People who have no patience, no willingness to work toward a goal, no discipline and frankly, are in the wrong game. Since v1.0 rewards have gone up by a factor of 100 and people are still moaning it isn't enough. Giving players more money just turns this game into another mindless arcade shooter. And I hate to be the one to break it to you, but this will not shut up the moaners. They won't be happy until they get HALO in space ships and then they'll still trash the game because of it. They will never be happy and compromising with them will always be a losing proposition for you.

New players will now make millions, get into ships they don't know how to fly, die and blame the game. They will never take personal responsibility, so Elite will always be at fault. You will never win giving in to that type of player.

Devs - The game needs to return to its roots. Less is more. Don't give into the howling and impatient masses. Make them work for what they get and anyone who complains about it reinforces you made the right decision. They might even learn a valuable life lesson. Lord knows, many of them need it.
 
i think its oke to make allot of money, even for beginners.
but the risk needs to be upped.. you shouldnt be safe, doesnt matter what you fly or how many mods you have..
you will see the rebuy screen at least once a month, and not because of your own foolish actions, but because of the challange.

money has to come in, but it has to go out to.. and not just to increase assets.
 
I'm not going to address specific issues as there are more than enough threads on the various subjects already.

[Snip]

Today, money is so easy to make that people are in Anacondas in a week, which is frakking ridiculous IMHO. There's no suspense anymore. People have fifty rebuys covered in the bank and so they no longer have any concerns about dying. Indeed, they become cavalier and start doing stupid things as a result. There's no more incentive to learn how to do things right, the element of danger is grossly reduced. Why is this?

Frontier is giving in to vocal players who feel making more money makes for a better game. People who have no patience, no willingness to work toward a goal, no discipline and frankly, are in the wrong game. Since v1.0 rewards have gone up by a factor of 100 and people are still moaning it isn't enough. Giving players more money just turns this game into another mindless arcade shooter. And I hate to be the one to break it to you, but this will not shut up the moaners. They won't be happy until they get HALO in space ships and then they'll still trash the game because of it. They will never be happy and compromising with them will always be a losing proposition for you.

New players will now make millions, get into ships they don't know how to fly, die and blame the game. They will never take personal responsibility, so Elite will always be at fault. You will never win giving in to that type of player.

Devs - The game needs to return to its roots. Less is more. Don't give into the howling and impatient masses. Make them work for what they get and anyone who complains about it reinforces you made the right decision. They might even learn a valuable life lesson. Lord knows, many of them need it.

Your own fault for being so greedy in the beginning. :p ;)

Now that you are rich beyond the dream of avarice. Life has few challenges.

I've kept myself poor(ish) since the beginning. The thrill is still there. :)
 
I'm not sure, I currently have enough for 1 rebuy & 1 rebuy with a loan... Don't put the vocal minotirty in the same boat as the average player.

All you have to do is spend 5 minutes reading the "Q & A" thread stickied on Reddit and you'll see there's lots of new players having exactly the same experience you did in 1.0

I think it's just time & experience has changed your opinion.

I reset my save back in July, I got to an Anaconda by October. Much quicker than previously yes, but I had all the experience.

There's a lot more tutorial videos now, when I started they didn't exist...

There are so many factors at play that I don't think you can generalise the way you have done.
 

you will see the rebuy screen at least once a month, and not because of your own foolish actions, but because of the challange.

I probably misunderstand you, but what you wrote there isn't challenge - it's simply punishing the player for playing the game by randomly killing the player. The only reason a player should "die" in a game is because the player made a mistake or wasn't good/skilled enough.

I agree with the OP that the credits are a bit too easy to earn, but then for others it might be very hard - it's difficult for me to judge if earning credits is hard or not after playing this game for over two years and knowing a lot of tricks and methods (without using the obvious "exploits").

Sadly it looks like FD is pushing the big ships and sees the small ships as simple stepping stones for the big ships. With more reasons to use small ships the need to get to the big ships would be reduced and players would maybe enjoy the path to the big ships or just flying around in small ships.

Currently not using a big ships is basically nerfing yourself. It might be fun, but …
 
OP has a point for sure. Sometimes I'd wish we had 2 separate versions. One for us "elitists" and another one called 'Elite light' where every new player starts with 200 Million credits and no mission would pay less than 1 Million. And no death penalty or just indestructible player ships. There would be a lot less trouble on the forums then or we could redirect any whiner to the light version at least. ;)

Nah, for 'Elite light', remove credits all together. You get everything for free. You don't have to dock to change ships/modules. Enter the numbers you want for engineered modules for no charge. Jump range doesn't exist. Enter Galaxy/System map, click and you're there.

Soon people would realize they might as well play CQC:
 
Although I appreciate the post OP the singular reason about stuff being hard to get was because there is literally nothing to do in the game that isn't the same thing just rehashed maybe apart from exploring and let's not even go there. The whole game is built up around grinding(earning) to the next ship the next rank, once money became easy to come by the whole game was shown to be very shallow lacking depth hence the amount of threads mentioning this. For me the game hasn't really changed in it's core from the first time I played it on day 1. I'm still literally doing the same stuff I was doing then just maybe rebadged under a different name.
The very fact I can make a fair amount of money at the moment is the only reason I'm actually playing the game anymore and even now I really have to push myself to press the start button on it.
 
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Frontier is giving in to vocal players who feel making more money makes for a better game. People who have no patience, no willingness to work toward a goal, no discipline and frankly, are in the wrong game.

Two questions:-
1) Any evidence FD are "pandering" to such requests? Keep in mind a fairly constant nerf hammer on money making mechanics.
2) And what difference does it make to you if another player earns money more quickly than you?

And surely the biggest "money making" has surely come from fundamental gameplay ball dropping by the devs. eg: Eg: stacking kill missions, or deliver goods 10 seconds away from stations... ?
 
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I'm not sure, I currently have enough for 1 rebuy & 1 rebuy with a loan... Don't put the vocal minotirty in the same boat as the average player.

All you have to do is spend 5 minutes reading the "Q & A" thread stickied on Reddit and you'll see there's lots of new players having exactly the same experience you did in 1.0

I think it's just time & experience has changed your opinion.

I reset my save back in July, I got to an Anaconda by October. Much quicker than previously yes, but I had all the experience.

There's a lot more tutorial videos now, when I started they didn't exist...

There are so many factors at play that I don't think you can generalise the way you have done.

i have to agree that we dont trow new people into the deep.

but there should be a bigger differance in system security, make anarchy scary! so it will make you think twice about jumping there.

- - - Updated - - -

Two questions:-
1) Any evidence FD are "pandering" to such requests? Keep in mind a fairly constant nerf hammer on money making mechanics.
2) And what difference does it make to you if another player earns money more quickly that you?

And surely the biggest "money making" has surely come from fundamental gameplay ball dropping by the devs. eg: Eg: stacking kill missions, or deliver goods 10 seconds away from stations... ?

empire CG, not to long back.. i think you could make 400million in an adder..
 
I'm not going to address specific issues as there are more than enough threads on the various subjects already.

I'm going to talk about the 'feel' of the game. I began Elite just after release of v1.0. On the first day, the learning curve was steep and the challenge of just getting off the launch pad with mouse and keyboard was daunting. I took several dozen trips into Settings to get my key binds just right. I didn't go into supercruise for an hour, as I wanted to feel comfortable flying the ship. I truly felt challenged and the reward of getting that little Sidey do my bidding was incredible.

My first mission was a Black Box recovery for 17K which involved a series of embarrassing overshoots into a USS as I learned throttle control. The 7 second rule being unknown to me at the time. I persevered through that, the cargo scooping and return to the station. 2.5 hours to launch off the pad, recover a Black Box and return. And it was magnificent. The next night, I did more missions and slowly accumulated more money. Within a week, I had enough to grab a C-rated Eagle and RES became my hunting grounds. When I got my first Cobra, I was like Leo DeCaprio on the bow of the Titanic. King of the World.

Two years later, the game has changed dramatically. First, massive kudos to DB and his team for maintaining the central vision. If you watch the KS videos and hear DB talking about the game and it's future, then see what we have today, you see very little is different. That isn't the issue. The challenge in Elite: Dangerous is slowly disappearing. When I first began, I was nervous as I had one, maybe two rebuys covered. I had to be careful, keep my eyes open and think about what I needed to do. I died, many times. However, I was able to learn from the experiences and move on. I made more than I lost, and incrementally I acquired more assets and ships. From the Cobra, I got a T-7 and traded my way into an AspX over several weeks of play.

Today, money is so easy to make that people are in Anacondas in a week, which is frakking ridiculous IMHO. There's no suspense anymore. People have fifty rebuys covered in the bank and so they no longer have any concerns about dying. Indeed, they become cavalier and start doing stupid things as a result. There's no more incentive to learn how to do things right, the element of danger is grossly reduced. Why is this?

Frontier is giving in to vocal players who feel making more money makes for a better game. People who have no patience, no willingness to work toward a goal, no discipline and frankly, are in the wrong game. Since v1.0 rewards have gone up by a factor of 100 and people are still moaning it isn't enough. Giving players more money just turns this game into another mindless arcade shooter. And I hate to be the one to break it to you, but this will not shut up the moaners. They won't be happy until they get HALO in space ships and then they'll still trash the game because of it. They will never be happy and compromising with them will always be a losing proposition for you.

New players will now make millions, get into ships they don't know how to fly, die and blame the game. They will never take personal responsibility, so Elite will always be at fault. You will never win giving in to that type of player.

Devs - The game needs to return to its roots. Less is more. Don't give into the howling and impatient masses. Make them work for what they get and anyone who complains about it reinforces you made the right decision. They might even learn a valuable life lesson. Lord knows, many of them need it.

You're conflating spending time with putting in effort.

Making money in Elite isnt "working for it." Its just sitting there, waiting for it to pile up. If making money involved any amount of effort or skill at all I would agree with your viewpoint. But it doesnt.

Wanting to reduce the TIME required to obtain things, is not the same as wanting to reduce the amount of EFFORT required to do so. Reducing grind does != reducing effort required. It simply makes the game more enjoyable for players with reasonable, real life schedules.
 
o7 CMDR.

People will always ask for moar. If players could, I have no doubt they would ask for a fully equipped and engineered 'vette in their first week playing.

And if they did that, how long does one expect them to continue playing for? I'd give it a week or two.

It's almost precisely the reason I refused myself beta access this year. Have magical ability to do everything, and find all that activity not just boring, but unfulfilling enough to ruin the experience on the whole.
 
Difficult balance to be struck to be sure.
I tend to agree that it feels like credits are a bit too easy to come by now though.
That is partly a function of experience as well but rewards have crept up.
When I first started out it took some scrimping and saving to get up to my MkIII and that felt like an achievement, fair enough I didn't have a huge amount of time per day to play but still... I reckon from a fresh start and with a bit of luck I'd probably have the cost for a basic model within an hour or so and have it pretty well equipped in reasonably shortly after that. Not willing to wipe my save to try that but certainly feels like it would be true.. Even with my current level of experience I don't think I would have been able to pull that off back in the day, it would have taken much longer.

That extra commander slot would be so useful for experimentation... Ho hum.
 
Game is still challenging to many new players - look up steam forums and reviews. Now we just have lots of YT tutorials and forum posts about how to make money quick. If you go blind in to the game you will still expiriance difficulty curve and slow progress.
 
Condescending and insulting rant, drawing all the desired conclusions based on little more than opinion, and serving deeply hardwired stereotypes.
Honeymoon is over, and no matter how hard you try, it won't come back.
This is the reality of ED, and it was the reality of ED 2 years ago.
Game plays almost the same now than it did then, and that's what your "moaners" keep banging on about.
And no game can provide the same challenge after 2 years as it did on day one. People spent plenty of time in it, have mastered many/all aspects of the game and accumulated 2 years of experience.
Ditch the nostalgia, 2014 won't come back...it can't.
 
Condescending and insulting rant, drawing all the desired conclusions based on little more than opinion, and serving deeply hardwired stereotypes.
Honeymoon is over, and no matter how hard you try, it won't come back.
This is the reality of ED, and it was the reality of ED 2 years ago.
Game plays almost the same now than it did then, and that's what your "moaners" keep banging on about.
And no game can provide the same challenge after 2 years as it did on day one. People spent plenty of time in it, have mastered many/all aspects of the game and accumulated 2 years of experience.
Ditch the nostalgia, 2014 won't come back...it can't.

Can't rep you again... well said!
 
The writing was on the wall over two years ago when FD accidentally dumped 5 Billion credits into some user accounts and didn't think it was a big deal and didn't want to do anything about it.

The basic flaw is in the financial model.

Cash flow is largely dependent on adding new players. Once added, the more they play, the higher the overhead to pay the AWS bill for services to players who largely no longer bring in much cash. The financial incentive is to get you to leave, not stay.
 
Condescending and insulting rant, drawing all the desired conclusions based on little more than opinion, and serving deeply hardwired stereotypes.
Honeymoon is over, and no matter how hard you try, it won't come back.
This is the reality of ED, and it was the reality of ED 2 years ago.
Game plays almost the same now than it did then, and that's what your "moaners" keep banging on about.
And no game can provide the same challenge after 2 years as it did on day one. People spent plenty of time in it, have mastered many/all aspects of the game and accumulated 2 years of experience.
Ditch the nostalgia, 2014 won't come back...it can't.

^^^this^^^ [up]
 
I probably misunderstand you, but what you wrote there isn't challenge - it's simply punishing the player for playing the game by randomly killing the player. The only reason a player should "die" in a game is because the player made a mistake or wasn't good/skilled enough.

yeah sorry english is not my native and sometimes i find it hard to explain what i mean.

I will try to explain.
ive got 87 rebuys and 90mill credits.
1 of those is my annaconda, and lost it by flying it into the wall after i got my first DDT3. that was my own foolish mistake.

Most of those rebuys are me dieing in my racer eagle.

But i wont see the rebuy by NPCs.. the challange needs to be upped.
i am not asking for random rebuys.. altho it might seem like i did :p
 
I started at about the same time as the OP & share a similar story. I am not lost, and although the games direction has drifted a little, it still seems to be the devs making the game they want to play.

Every update bar one has added to the basic gameplay, allowing those who are interested in that addon to make use of it, without interfering with those that don't.

Every time an update is announced & it's not a feature I'm interested in I just think 'that's not aimed at me' & it's fine. I still have my core (1.0) gameplay.

I agree with the OP that there have been changes which have lessened the experience (in my view), I started in a sidewinder with fixed weapons & 1,000Cr & had to decide for myself whether to start in Open or Solo. Now your free sidewinder has gimbals & you get 100,000Cr (I've only reset in beta), and your first instance is in Solo whatever mode you select it seems. (edit - reset in main game gets you 1,000Cr & 10,000Cr mission)

I can certainly understand why the Devs have made changes like this, and sent out e-mails with tips like visiting Sothis & Ceos. And I can't go back & experience that stuff for the first time again of course, I know about this stuff anyway. It can be very easy to progress through the game now by quickly getting an OP ship (for the opponents you will face early in the game), but fundamentally I just see this as the Devs compensating for the one update that did affect the core gameplay, the 2.1 AI update.

The change to the AI made it easier at the lower ranks, and harder at the higher ranks. Clearly, along with the subsequent changes in earning & progression potential, the Devs feel that the game is no longer about that initial challenge (from Sidewinder to Cobra say), it's become about getting into an OP (engineered) ship as quickly as possible because that's where the fun starts now, with SLFs & multi-crew, massive jump ranges and shields, and most importantly, massive DPS weapons useful only for ganking unprepared players.

So I don't think the game has lost it's way, but I think the focus has changed from the game I bought. I can still play my game, just about. I try to work things out for myself so I don't see a lot of the newer stuff ways to exploit the game progression. New players can quickly catch up to the existing playerbase so they have the opportunity at least to be prepared for any player they meet.

I'm okay with that, but every time I learn how a new feature will be implemented I tend to cringe more than I am impressed.
 
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