Optional Internals? Small Ships? Spillters & Hot Air!!

[Flippimonkey]

So I was doing some ship browsing. Turns out many of the new ships have a lot of Optional Internals slots. Like a whole lot.

So I was thinking the older ships, like the Cobra and Asp, should get a few extra slots added. I mean across the board that would be nice. Power, jump range, and slot size are enough to keep things sane.

I am rigging up a Cobra Mk3 for mining. Nothing crazy. Just a Toyota T100 beating around the local area. But if the Cobra had 2 more slots. class 2 & class 3... WOW!! I could dabble in mining and have a fuel scoop and one more cargo rack.

I would drop to a size 3 shield and the scoop can be size 2. Whatever. I can float around a star and look for things to mine.

But nope. Also the Asp Ex/Sc... DBack Ex/Sc... Really?

I mean I would be down for component "splitters". Turn a size 4 into 2 2's or a 3 & 1. Weapons would be super kewl too. Anyways...

I just think these ships should be looked at. Also Need so many more small ships. SO MANY!! Give me every type of modern Fighter frame and like a few oddballs.

Okay, I'm done. I have vented.

Peace!

 

[Deadlock-3000]

Why is cargo weighed in tonnes, anyway

Shouldn't it be by volume

I mean 128 tonnes of water at standard pressure occupies 128 cubic metres, but 128 tonnes of iron ore occupies a fifth of that

So why can't I carry more iron ore than water

 

[Sylow]

*yawn* Old and bad idea.

The number of threads on this "awesome new idea" might by now be in the four digits range. And it still hasn't become good in any way. I just give you a pointer: go to your favourite ship building tool. See how much health a small HRP adds. Fully engineer the HRP and see how much health and resist it then adds.

Now imagine that you can split up one of the big slots and replace it by many small HRPs. You can end up with tremendous health and resists well above cap. While still having most of the other slots available.

So really, the most obvious use of this idea, now to "help the small and rarely used ships" would be to further boost the big and already much used ships. I mean, sure it has some uses. When a player in an FDL attacks you, you just fire up netflix and watch a movie. When you are back, you notice that your hull is already down to below 90%, so you better wake out...

 

[Flippimonkey]

Then specialize the slots. Seriously it always comes down to combat... *yawn*

Don't the Alliance ships have "military" slots. I'd use these small ships a lot more if they had some use.

This idea isn't new. A few games, not limited to just space sims, have systems like this. Adding more slots would allow for more "complete" builds. Basically experience a complete facet of the game.

Big ships should just do it all very well and "BEEF CAKE!!!" when they specialize. Hence BIG SHIP!!

I don't PvP. There is no incentive for me. So all the stuff you said about health buffs and what not.., yeah *yawn*. Also if applied to weapons to wouldn't it balance out and there is the possibility of more pew pew...? I don't mind that balance in regards Player versus AI. Players should stomp AI and then have a challenge in EPIC SPACE BATTLES OF DOOOOOOOM!!! Imo.

Anyways, as it is I would just like to do more in a single field. Or have a more complete experience. Just on a small to medium scale...

 

[Devari]

So I was doing some ship browsing. Turns out many of the new ships have a lot of Optional Internals slots. Like a whole lot.

They really don't. The Krait is on par with the Python, which is in keeping with its size as a multirole medium ship. The Mamba is on par with the FDL, which is in keeping with its size as a specialized medium combat ship and in fact has much more limited internals than many smaller ships. The Krait phantom is effectively a downgraded Krait. There has not actually been any "inflation" of internal slots since the game launched mostly because the Python and Anaconda each set a hard limit on how many internals they can put into a medium or heavy multirole without overshadowing those two ships. Certain ships, generally the combat ships, have gotten some specialized military slots added but the multirole ships haven't actually gotten any more optional internals.

I am rigging up a Cobra Mk3 for mining. Nothing crazy. Just a Toyota T100 beating around the local area. But if the Cobra had 2 more slots. class 2 & class 3... WOW!! I could dabble in mining and have a fuel scoop and one more cargo rack.

Oh I see now. You want to fly a Cobra Mk IV, but have it keep the speed and maneuverability of the Cobra Mk III without inheriting any of the severe drawbacks the Mk IV has.

Yeah, no. Sorry.

 

[voidwalker]

*yawn* Old and bad idea.

The number of threads on this "awesome new idea" might by now be in the four digits range. And it still hasn't become good in any way. I just give you a pointer: go to your favourite ship building tool. See how much health a small HRP adds. Fully engineer the HRP and see how much health and resist it then adds.

Now imagine that you can split up one of the big slots and replace it by many small HRPs. You can end up with tremendous health and resists well above cap. While still having most of the other slots available.

So really, the most obvious use of this idea, now to "help the small and rarely used ships" would be to further boost the big and already much used ships. I mean, sure it has some uses. When a player in an FDL attacks you, you just fire up netflix and watch a movie. When you are back, you notice that your hull is already down to below 90%, so you better wake out...

This is a non-issue, and I'll tell you why.

It's already demonstrated that the devs are capable of limiting what kind of modules go into optional internals by virtue of having military-dedicated slots that you can only put HRPs in and the like. Just make splitter racks civil modules only. Another alternative is limiting the number of HRPs any ship can have to 4 max, then it doesn't matter how many internals your ship has.

 

[Arkadi]

While we are at it, why don't add one more utility slot (maybe restricted for scanners - so no SB / PD / Caff spam) for all small and medium ships except the FDL? It would be really nice to have some more options to slap one more scanner on board, without taking away from its combat survivability.

 

[Micha]

*yawn* Old and bad idea.

The number of threads on this "awesome new idea" might by now be in the four digits range. And it still hasn't become good in any way. I just give you a pointer: go to your favourite ship building tool. See how much health a small HRP adds. Fully engineer the HRP and see how much health and resist it then adds.

*yawn* And debutted every time - trivial fix: Don't allow stacking of most modules (cargo/passenger cabins excepted). (but OHNOES, my OTT builds can no longer be built!)

 

[voidwalker]

Personally, I completely oppose splitters or adding internals to any ships without good justification. "I want my favourite ship to be able to do more stuff" is not good justification. I'll tell you what I am in favour of, though: external hardpoints.

Do it like body kits, adding an external layer/part to your ship that fundamentally changes its shape and flight dynamics to get a small addition of some kind, maybe worth one or two additional class one or two internals, which would depend on the size of the ship, of course. Let me show you what I mean.

Here is an F-16. Take note of its body shape, and ignore the external stores on it, that's not what I'm talking about

And now, here is an F-16 with conformal fuel tanks. Again, take note of the body shape, and ignore the external stores.

Everyone should be able to notice the difference right away. In short, those bulges at the wing roots are called conformal fuel tanks. They are dedicated for fuel storage, and shaped in such a way that they minimise the effect they have on the plane's flight dynamics. Unlike external fuel pods, they don't need to be dropped when entering combat because they don't massively alter the plane's centre of balance or aerodynamics. This is what I'm talking about, but imagine they weren't dedicated for fuel tanks. Imagine they are just 'internal slots' that you could use for fuel if you wanted, or cargo, or extra sensors. That's what I'm talking about.

Now in the real world, fighter planes aren't balanced for gameplay purposes. In doing this to the F-16, they do indeed add weight, but they get around this by giving it more powerful engines. In Elite, you can't do that, and this is a good thing, because it allows for balancing. Such modifications would add a lot of weight to the ship, endangering the ship's speed and agility capabilities by compromising the optimal mass of the engines, especially for players using Dirty Drives with Drag Drives. People might start using drive distributors more frequently to help offset this, but in the end, it would still require thoughtfulness and compromise going into a fit where such modifications are planned.

 

[Micha]

Why is cargo weighed in tonnes, anyway

It's not the weight, it's the size. Think of "tonne" as designating a standard shipping container rather than a weight measure in the Elite universe.

 

[Captain Jack Sparrow]

Bad idea. Too many ships are already too similar. This would be a boring game if the ships all had the same stats.

 

[Arkadi]

I'd already be happy if all those different limpet controllers would be unified into one universal limpet control module. That would make ships that bit more versatile and content more readily available.

 

[Stealthie]

*yawn* And debutted every time - trivial fix: Don't allow stacking of most modules (cargo/passenger cabins excepted). (but OHNOES, my OTT builds can no longer be built!)

Absolutely not!

Totally opposed to arbitrarily limiting slot choices in any way.
In fact what we should be asking for is a reduction of the limitations imposed by slots, not more limitations.

If somebody's smart enough to figure out how to build a ship that does something especially well they should be applauded for doing so, not punished by having arbitrary limitations inflicted on them.

It's up to FDev to come up with more inventive ways of "guiding" a ships intended role, at the design stage, by the use of factors like power, heat and weight - not just making it impossible to fit certain modules into certain slots.

 

[varonica]

Then specialize the slots. Seriously it always comes down to combat... *yawn*

There will be no more specialised slots, FDEV have learned their lesson from the last ones they created, just look up the hundreds of threads demanding the unlocking of specialised military and passenger slots to fit everything from fuel scoops to general cargo, it will never happen!

 

[Bigmaec]

All this yawning in the thread... didn't you get your coffee?

Choices and sacrifices are a thing in game, a good thing. So keep it as it is...
(And no, you can't have the MK IV evaaaah )

 

[S3B4ST13N]

Why is cargo weighed in tonnes, anyway

Shouldn't it be by volume

I mean 128 tonnes of water at standard pressure occupies 128 cubic metres, but 128 tonnes of iron ore occupies a fifth of that

So why can't I carry more iron ore than water

Because a) lazy design, b) horribad design, c) minimum viable product, d) all of the above.

 

[andrewg_oz]

Because a) lazy design, b) horribad design, c) minimum viable product, d) all of the above.

Lazy replies are lazy.

Google "dimensional weight".

 

[S3B4ST13N]

Lazy replies are lazy.

Google "dimensional weight".

Cool.. so now I know how to calculate shipping charges...

 

[Deadlock-3000]

It's not the weight, it's the size. Think of "tonne" as designating a standard shipping container rather than a weight measure in the Elite universe.

Wait, what

You want me to think of a word in English, which has a conventionalised dictionary meaning relating to a concept in physics, as meaning something completely different in the context of a specific video game.

Erm .... no. No, that's not happening.

 

[Deadlock-3000]

Lazy replies are lazy.

Google "dimensional weight".

Try googling "telling other people they are lazy and then telling someone else to google something you are too lazy to explain and which isn't all that relevant anyhow".