Engineers Overcharged vs Short Range Blaster mods

Hello people of the internet.

I'm doing some engineering, and have always chosen short range for my multicannons. However I have been googling and it seems people prefer overcharged. Is there a reason for this as it seems to me like the reduced range is an easy price to pay for the superior damage.
 
You’re completely right in your choice and you’re not alone

Short range on MC’s seem to be overlooked. I think it’s because short range mods on lasers have a really bad damage fall off >500 m and I would guess people are projecting this to MC’s.

But of course, this isn’t the case with MC’s.
Imho, short range MC’s are the best mod period!

Same damage as overcharged with ‘normal’ distributor drain and heat generation, giving a very good dps/damage per energy ratio.

All for free if you just keep distance below 2000 m.
This is extremely useful for small/medium ships that rely on manouvering and high dps.

Short range is all I use - no point in overcharge unless you regulary fight above ranges of 2000m, but then you’d be better of with long range and the increased projectile speeds.
 
The "problem" is that the drawbacks of overcharged are not an issue on MCs.
.
I mean, the overcharged MC gains up to +70% damage, for +35% distributor draw and +15% thermal load. Long range gives +75% damage, +40% thermal load and costs you 50% of your range. Thermal load is low on MCs anyway. The +15% of overcharge is nothing and even the +40% of short range is not that important. MCs also have very low distributor draw, so again the +35% of overcharged is negligible.
.
This means that effectively you sacrifice 50% of your range for 5% more base damage. (Less than 3% more when comparing the total damage. ) It doesn't seem to be an attractive tradeoff for this weapon. So at least in my eyes it's a very niché application. Only for weapons and setups where distributor draw matters, thermal load is of lower importance and your chance to hit at longer distances is nonexistent anyway, the short range mod might be useful. For me the only weapons to consider it thus would be those with very slow moving projectiles. As the cannon doesn't benefit so much from the advantages, either, it's only the plasma accelerator where short range might actually be a reasonable choice, at least before you look at focused.
.
Short range is all I use - no point in overcharge unless you regulary fight above ranges of 2000m, but then you’d be better of with long range and the increased projectile speeds.
.
This statement is confusing me. A weapon with 3000 meters range can still hit at 2000 meters after having its range reduced by 50%?
.
 
The "problem" is that the drawbacks of overcharged are not an issue on MCs.
.
I mean, the overcharged MC gains up to +70% damage, for +35% distributor draw and +15% thermal load. Long range gives +75% damage, +40% thermal load and costs you 50% of your range. Thermal load is low on MCs anyway. The +15% of overcharge is nothing and even the +40% of short range is not that important. MCs also have very low distributor draw, so again the +35% of overcharged is negligible.
.
This means that effectively you sacrifice 50% of your range for 5% more base damage. (Less than 3% more when comparing the total damage. ) It doesn't seem to be an attractive tradeoff for this weapon. So at least in my eyes it's a very niché application. Only for weapons and setups where distributor draw matters, thermal load is of lower importance and your chance to hit at longer distances is nonexistent anyway, the short range mod might be useful. For me the only weapons to consider it thus would be those with very slow moving projectiles. As the cannon doesn't benefit so much from the advantages, either, it's only the plasma accelerator where short range might actually be a reasonable choice, at least before you look at focused.
.

.
This statement is confusing me. A weapon with 3000 meters range can still hit at 2000 meters after having its range reduced by 50%?
.

He is Right^

I use twin OC size 4 MC's on my corvette, I assure you the power difference isn't even noticeable, the distributor actually produces more energy than consumed.

if you were talking thermal weapons then yes, to some degree short range is ok, but for lasers you just go efficient and Plasma accelerators you can still go OC with the rate of fire being low.

I used to have SR Blaster on a PA, except the round would magically disappear before it hit the target.

sometimes, if you want the good stuff you have to accept the penalties, most of the time however combining these weapons with rapid charge G5 distributors tends to mitigate the penalties enormously!! and if done right, almost infinite firing without distributor draw :D
 
@ Sylow

Maximum damage output of short range (SR) and overcharge (OC)is the same.

As you mention, distributor draw and heat is relatively small on MC’s and can be neglible.

Using short range over overcharge will give you less drain on your distributor and will keep you shooting for longer or at least let you allocate more pip points into shields or engines if you prefer.
The increased heat of shortrange is negated by MC’s need to reload, during which heat will dissipate.

Choosing between SR and OC then comes down to distributor drain vs range.
I would always go for distributor draw. Using short range will keep dps high and opens for good options for combining MC’s with lasers - especially beams that also have short range.
In a laser/MC build, the MC damage output would be the same with either SR or OC. But the SR will use less power which the laser can burn through before the distributor is drained - this will effectively increase OVERALL dsp on the SR MC build compared to using OC together with lasers.

‘...That statement is confusing me...’
I’ll try to clarify what I mean (english isn’t my native language).

SR damage suffers dramatically above 2000m. OC less so. I believe we’re in agreement here.

An OC projectile travels with the same (relative low) speed as a SR or unengineered (UE) projectile.

In general I would never use a MC on at target at ranges above 2000m with any of the three beforementioned types. SR because dps is stupidly low. OC and UE because the projectile travelspeed is low and a lot of the shots would propably miss (in my experience anyway) unless the target is flying directly at you). There’s also always the risk of hitting someone else and getting a bounty if you long range spray at above 2000m.

If I wanted to use a dedicated long range build I would always med the MC with long range (LR). This increases projectile speed and increases the chances that any fired projectile acually hits the target at long range.

This bring me to my conclusion.
Unless I wanted to try out a dedicated long range combat build, I would never use MC’s at ranges above 2000m.
With heating being a no-issue on MC’s, this makes SR the obvious choice over OC because you’ll be getting better damage/energy draw.

This is even more significant if you combine SR MC’s with lasers where the lesser energy draw will increase energy reserves for the lasers and thereby active shooting time before the distributor needs recharging. Choosing SR thereby increases overall dps compared to OC.

OC is (imho) only relevant if you’re in a slow turning ship that lets the target run away often at ranges above 2000m.

I always fly very agilele ships and use manouvering to keep myself as close to enemies as possible to keep dps high and my ship outside the enemy firing cone. My favorite vulture build is a SR corrosive MC + a SR vented beamlaser. Absolutely brutal when you leech close onto any target.
 
@ Sylow

Maximum damage output of short range (SR) and overcharge (OC)is the same.

As you mention, distributor draw and heat is relatively small on MC’s and can be neglible.

Using short range over overcharge will give you less drain on your distributor and will keep you shooting for longer or at least let you allocate more pip points into shields or engines if you prefer.
The increased heat of shortrange is negated by MC’s need to reload, during which heat will dissipate.

Choosing between SR and OC then comes down to distributor drain vs range.
I would always go for distributor draw. Using short range will keep dps high and opens for good options for combining MC’s with lasers - especially beams that also have short range.
In a laser/MC build, the MC damage output would be the same with either SR or OC. But the SR will use less power which the laser can burn through before the distributor is drained - this will effectively increase OVERALL dsp on the SR MC build compared to using OC together with lasers.
.
But as you even agree yourself at the start distributor draw is so low on the MC that it's basically negligible. And you even claim that the damage increase is the same. Actually short ranged gives a tiny bit more damage than overcharged. On a MC, due to capacitor drain being so small, the small damage advantage is virtually the only advantage it short ranged has.
.
I also quite often combine lasers and MCs. But between charge enhanced distributor and a little bit of pip management, the only reason MCs ever manage to drain my weapons power is when I fly late at night and should rather be in bed, means when I completely and utterly mess up pip management.
.
SR damage suffers dramatically above 2000m. OC less so. I believe we’re in agreement here.

An OC projectile travels with the same (relative low) speed as a SR or unengineered (UE) projectile.

In general I would never use a MC on at target at ranges above 2000m with any of the three beforementioned types. SR because dps is stupidly low. OC and UE because the projectile travelspeed is low and a lot of the shots would propably miss (in my experience anyway) unless the target is flying directly at you). There’s also always the risk of hitting someone else and getting a bounty if you long range spray at above 2000m.

If I wanted to use a dedicated long range build I would always med the MC with long range (LR). This increases projectile speed and increases the chances that any fired projectile acually hits the target at long range.

This bring me to my conclusion.
Unless I wanted to try out a dedicated long range combat build, I would never use MC’s at ranges above 2000m.
With heating being a no-issue on MC’s, this makes SR the obvious choice over OC because you’ll be getting better damage/energy draw.

This is even more significant if you combine SR MC’s with lasers where the lesser energy draw will increase energy reserves for the lasers and thereby active shooting time before the distributor needs recharging. Choosing SR thereby increases overall dps compared to OC.

OC is (imho) only relevant if you’re in a slow turning ship that lets the target run away often at ranges above 2000m.

I always fly very agilele ships and use manouvering to keep myself as close to enemies as possible to keep dps high and my ship outside the enemy firing cone. My favorite vulture build is a SR corrosive MC + a SR vented beamlaser. Absolutely brutal when you leech close onto any target.
.
"Suffers drastically" is nice wording. After all, short ranged can't deal any damage to a target over 1500 meters away. That is the maximum range you have when running G5 short ranged weapons, a hard limit. (At least according to Inara. I haven't touched short range engineering since a while, so i don't have the numbers at hand. But for engineering blueprints, Inara usually is up to date. ) Shoot at 1501 meters and the damage you do is zero. Just like the regular weapon can still do low damage at 3000 meters and zero at 3001 meters. Luckily short range doesn't reduce the ranges for damage falloff. So you're right there, up to 1500 meters, the overcharged and the short ranged weapon performs similar. For anything over 1500 meters overcharged is ahead, simply by being able to still hit the target.
.
And yes, you describe well how you work around the drawback of short ranged. If it doesn't trouble you, it's a good choice. But unless I am in my Courier, there's always one or another ship which is a tad faster than me and sometimes is a bit further out than the mentioned 1500 meters. Considering that the Vulture is extremely agile but has mediocre (for a combat ship) speed, I would expect you to know the effect. If you don't, I would rather attribute that to your pick of targets than to the ships advantages. (After all, a Vulture is a great pick against bigger ships. )
.
Anyway, the question of the OP was not ship related, it was only about overcharged or short ranged on multicannons. And at least in general, you have to expect that you also sometimes fight a faster ship, which might not stay within close range all of the fight. Being able to reach out beyond 1500 meters is welcome there. With G5 short ranged, you sacrifice that ability and I find that the price is too high, when considering that overcharged gives you almost exactly the same advantage (actually minimally less damage output), without costing you any range.
.
Thus I'd still say that generally overcharged is the better choice.
.
 
Methinks the devs both overthought and underthought the differences in blueprints...some of the differences between engineering mods are so ridiculously subtle and niche I sometimes wonder why we have both. I often find myself using sturdy mounts for MC's, just so enemy armor stacking means nothing and I can hammer them indiscriminately. Cobra to Conda, Viper to Vette, full armor pen means I just don't CARE what you're flying.
 
@ Sylow
>Choosing between SR and OC then comes down to distributor drain vs range.
I would always go for distributor draw. Using short range will keep dps high and opens for good options for combining MC’s with lasers - especially beams that also have short range.
In a laser/MC build, the MC damage output would be the same with either SR or OC. But the SR will use less power which the laser can burn through before the distributor is drained - this will effectively increase OVERALL dsp on the SR MC build compared to using OC together with lasers.<

>In general I would never use a MC on at target at ranges above 2000m with any of the three beforementioned types. SR because dps is stupidly low. OC and UE because the projectile travelspeed is low and a lot of the shots would propably miss (in my experience anyway) unless the target is flying directly at you). There’s also always the risk of hitting someone else and getting a bounty if you long range spray at above 2000m.<

>This bring me to my conclusion.
Unless I wanted to try out a dedicated long range combat build, I would never use MC’s at ranges above 2000m.
With heating being a no-issue on MC’s, this makes SR the obvious choice over OC because you’ll be getting better damage/energy draw.
This is even more significant if you combine SR MC’s with lasers where the lesser energy draw will increase energy reserves for the lasers and thereby active shooting time before the distributor needs recharging. Choosing SR thereby increases overall dps compared to OC.<

>My favorite vulture build is a SR corrosive MC + a SR vented beamlaser. Absolutely brutal when you leech close onto any target.<

I can absolutely second these arguments, especially the suggested Vulture build. The other day I have changed my Corvette's weapon loadout the same way. A huge gimballed SR beam with thernal vent and a huge gimballed SR multi cannon with corrosive shell. The damage dealt with this combination is simply obscene. It's complemented with two small rail guns with feedback cascade, their increased damage obliterates any shield cell bank with one volley. The mediums and the single class 3 are fitted with overcharged fragment cannons for the bigger boys. The Corvette is slow, yes, but with two pips to engines you are able to perma-boost, keep up with your target easily and fly evasive as well if needed. Three pips to weapons and you can almost perma-fire, one pip to shields is more than enough because you kill NPCs so fast.

Of course this is PvE only, PvP is a completely different story.
 
my experience with SR or OC is less the distro draw and more where is your engagement range, if stay close to your target go SR otherwise OC

but ballistic weapon benefit more from SR than OC, since their max range is huge (Multi cannon can it targets till 4km, Huge Cannon 4,5km)
SR G5 cuts the max range in half, so our Max range from Multi cannon goes down from 4 km to 2km, our Huge cannon go from 4,5 to 2,25km

and nobody would use Multi cannons and Cannons pass 2km because you just wasting ammo

and on the sidenote SR Railguns hit like a Truck driven by Terry Crews [big grin] (POOOOWWWEERR!)
 
I've gone long range on lasers, overcharged or rapid fire on MCs and short range blaster on rails, as I can't hit a damn from afar anyway.

I kinda like rapid fire as it also shortens the reload time, almost acting as autoloader at G5.
 
I've gone long range on lasers, overcharged or rapid fire on MCs and short range blaster on rails, as I can't hit a damn from afar anyway.

I kinda like rapid fire as it also shortens the reload time, almost acting as autoloader at G5.
.
That's true, but you're reducing your ammo efficiency. You fire faster, but don't have more ammo capacity. So while you deal more damage per time, you deal less total damage for the ammo you carry.
.
If you just fight once a while or do assassination missions, this is no issue. Rapid fire still is a good choice there. But if you're intending to do some longer tour in a resource extraction site, you're handicapping yourself with rapid fire. You have to return to reload (or synthesize ammo) much more often than with overcharged or short ranged.
.
 
.
That's true, but you're reducing your ammo efficiency. You fire faster, but don't have more ammo capacity. So while you deal more damage per time, you deal less total damage for the ammo you carry.
.
If you just fight once a while or do assassination missions, this is no issue. Rapid fire still is a good choice there. But if you're intending to do some longer tour in a resource extraction site, you're handicapping yourself with rapid fire. You have to return to reload (or synthesize ammo) much more often than with overcharged or short ranged.
.

All true. I never had the patience to stay in a resource site for much longer than I have ammo for though... Usually I'd synth the ammo for the MC with least once and when any other weapon is out, so am I. Oh, I do have a small MC for corrosive effect and that one has increased ammo cap base mod just because it would always be the first to go. With size 1 it is mostly good for effect only anyway.
 
Back
Top Bottom