P2P Trading?

[Bob Calistan]

So are they ever going to add player to player trading? I've made several posts asking this in the past but I was always told that the developers were already working on some type of player trading interaction. Those posts were over a year ago though and it seems like no progress has been posted on what they are trying to do in reference to this topic.

So have they finally decided not to go through with it because of not being able to "balance" it or something or are they just being really slow?

I'm not going to go in depth on why I want it since I have before, but I just feel that the game feels alone without some other way to help or communicate with players other than following them and fighting enemies that give like 100,000 dollars a pop.

 

[Hell Razor5543]

So are they ever going to add player to player trading? I've made several posts asking this in the past but I was always told that the developers were already working on some type of player trading interaction. Those posts were over a year ago though and it seems like no progress has been posted on what they are trying to do in reference to this topic.

So have they finally decided not to go through with it because of not being able to "balance" it or something or are they just being really slow?

I'm not going to go in depth on why I want it since I have before, but I just feel that the game feels alone without some other way to help or communicate with players other than following them and fighting enemies that give like 100,000 dollars a pop.

While there may not be P2P Trading, there are Trade Dividends, which I use to help new Players. They are worth 5% of the sellers trade profits to EACH wingman (and does not affect the seller, who does not receive dividends for his sales). I have had occasions (albeit during CGs) when my wingmen have had dividends of 80,000cr each.

 

[Bob Calistan]

Those give you crap, I know from first hand expierience.

 

[Alex Brentnall]

From 2 days ago although the conversation petered out a bit. It's a common suggestion with opinion split about 60/40 against iirc from the last time a poll was taken.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=245652&p=3824897

 

[cmdr_Havalok]

Other than Abandoned Cargo and Trade Dividends I'm not aware of anything on the Horizon.

See what I did there? There is talk of something someday but I'm not expecting it this season.

 

[Bob Calistan]

From 2 days ago although the conversation petered out a bit. It's a common suggestion with opinion split about 60/40 against iirc from the last time a poll was taken.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=245652&p=3824897

Well I wish I could just go in there and copy and paste what I've said before, but I doubt I'm going to do that. If you go to my profile and look at my old posts on this topic I've literally written pages upon pages going in depth and detail on why I believe this game should have P2P trading, and I don't mean to brag, but I'm almost positive it counters nearly every single arguement you could throw at it, or at least I have no idea what else I could cover in it that someone could critisize about it.

Also, was it 60% for and 40% against, or vice versa? Because as long as for have the majority their is a good chance we might eventually get it, no matter how long it may be. If not, well we might never get it until like star citizen shows off its pros to the majority, which I'm nearly certain it will.

 

[Hell Razor5543]

Those give you crap, I know from first hand experience.

While the amounts may not appear great, please look at it with a sense of perspective. If you allow for the fact that I have, on occasion, earned 1.7Mcr on a CG trade run, 80Kcr is nothing. If, however, you look at this from the side of a new Player, with 4T capacity, 80Kcr is a huge amount. OK, this is an extreme example, but it happened a few times during the Station Build CG at LHS 3447. Normally the Trade Dividend is around 20Kcr (the lowest normal TDs are 15Kcr, highest are 27Kcr). However, on a few occasions I have met new Players who have only a few hours into the game (and have a borrowed Sidewinder and 1,000cr), and I have then given them advise and 20Kcr. If they are prepared to wait at the station I designate (as it has the best profit margins, so they benefit from it) I can still give them advise, and more Trade Dividends. 3 more trips gives them an A2 FSD, which means that space has opened up more for them.

If you check the links in my signature you will see what I try to do.

 

[Bob Calistan]

While the amounts may not appear great, please look at it with a sense of perspective. If you allow for the fact that I have, on occasion, earned 1.7Mcr on a CG trade run, 80Kcr is nothing. If, however, you look at this from the side of a new Player, with 4T capacity, 80Kcr is a huge amount. OK, this is an extreme example, but it happened a few times during the Station Build CG at LHS 3447. Normally the Trade Dividend is around 20Kcr (the lowest normal TDs are 15Kcr, highest are 27Kcr). However, on a few occasions I have met new Players who have only a few hours into the game (and have a borrowed Sidewinder and 1,000cr), and I have then given them advise and 20Kcr. If they are prepared to wait at the station I designate (as it has the best profit margins, so they benefit from it) I can still give them advise, and more Trade Dividends. 3 more trips gives them an A2 FSD, which means that space has opened up more for them.

If you check the links in my signature you will see what I try to do.

Well, maybe for NEW players that's a lot, but I'm playing with 3 other veterans that at least have fully upgraded viper 4's, (our oldest member has a fully upgraded federal corvette) so as you can see, 80k is indeed nothing when looking toward a 3 million dollar vulture next. That's another reason I want P2P trading, our oldest member has a ton of money that he literally can't spend on anything, yet he still can't give it to us. Now I know that might seem like "cheating," but anyone who argues that this game has a good economy and money system for the price that ships are is absolutely insane. It took our member nearly 3 months of straight grinding boring ass trade routes and war zones to get that corvette, and even still, he was not impressed with his purchase. He claims the balancing of the ships they tried to do makes the swarms of small sidewinders more lethal to him instead of the single anaconda, due to the way damage is factored by his shields and such, leading to him having to run away from small started ships at certain occasions, which he never had to do before. He says it is a powerful ship, but the vulture is probably the most bang for his buck in terms of effectiveness versus the price and size of the ship, and not to mention that he seems just as combat able in a vulture. Regardless, I still want to see the ship for myself.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

Here we go......

We've got about 40 posts until this thread turns into a vitriolic mudslinging extravaganza about how this topic is literally causing people to go to the emergency room with anxiety attacks because they saw the anti-christ jumping out of their monitor when they read it and that gold farmers are going to take our children, turn them into hobgoblins and release them back upon us to harvest our kidneys.

Every time.... I'd love to sit down with some of the people that get involved in these threads and discuss it face to face to see if they truly revert to an adolescent state filled with uncertainty and uncontrollable fear right before my eyes like they do when they're sitting in front of a keyboard.

 

[Bob Calistan]

Here we go......

We've got about 40 posts until this thread turns into a vitriolic mudslinging extravaganza about how this topic is literally causing people to go to the emergency room with anxiety attacks because they saw the anti-christ jumping out of their monitor when they read it and that gold farmers are going to take our children, turn them into hobgoblins and release them back upon us to harvest our kidneys.

Every time.... I'd love to sit down with some of the people that get involved in these threads and discuss it face to face to see if they truly revert to an adolescent state filled with uncertainty and uncontrollable fear right before my eyes like they do when they're sitting in front of a keyboard.

Please, inform me of this mud slinging that is going on in this discussion. I and no one else in this thread have not made a single claim that they can't back up, and the closest I got to "losing control" was my last post and even still, I'm not mad at the guy, I just got a little flustered that he thinks I'm playing with newbies when I have stated that I have been playing this game for at least a year.

But please tell me where these anxiety attacks and emergency rooms visits have occurred. If you want to discuss this topic in actual detail, I'll be more than happy too. I still have my 3-5 pages of work saved from 2 years ago.

Also, 40 posts? I wish. We're only like 7 posts in buddy.

 

[Midian27]

So you just want it so your friend can hand you money that you don't want to earn. Yeah, no thanks.

 

[Hell Razor5543]

Please, inform me of this mud slinging that is going on in this discussion. I and no one else in this thread have not made a single claim that they can't back up, and the closest I got to "losing control" was my last post and even still, I'm not mad at the guy, I just got a little flustered that he thinks I'm playing with newbies when I have stated that I have been playing this game for at least a year.

But please tell me where these anxiety attacks and emergency rooms visits have occurred. If you want to discuss this topic in actual detail, I'll be more than happy too. I still have my 3-5 pages of work saved from 2 years ago.

Also, 40 posts? I wish. We're only like 7 posts in buddy.

If you thought that I believed you were playing with newbies, that was not my intent (and I apologise if I caused you offense). I was merely pointing out that Trade Dividends exist. I also agreed that from some perspectives the amount they paid was minimal, but from other perspectives they were a game changer. I did miss the fact that you had been playing for a year or so.

There have been several posts in the past whereby people have suggested that FDev put in a system whereby Players with large fortunes can (in one way or another) 'give' another Player some credits. The main one appears to be that a new Player might get a friend Player (with a large fortune) to give him a large sum, and then buy and outfit an Anaconda to A Class with only a couple of days playing the game. The problem is that you may well then end up with people playing the game who have resources they have not earned, and with little or no respect for the game, or the Players who have made the effort to build up their resources themselves. I have several ships, a reasonable Balance, and a healthy enjoyment of the game (19 months and counting, with no plans to stop playing).

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

Please, inform me of this mud slinging that is going on in this discussion. I and no one else in this thread have not made a single claim that they can't back up, and the closest I got to "losing control" was my last post and even still, I'm not mad at the guy, I just got a little flustered that he thinks I'm playing with newbies when I have stated that I have been playing this game for at least a year.

But please tell me where these anxiety attacks and emergency rooms visits have occurred. If you want to discuss this topic in actual detail, I'll be more than happy too. I still have my 3-5 pages of work saved from 2 years ago.

Also, 40 posts? I wish. We're only like 7 posts in buddy.

I'll give you 20 minutes to read what I said again and consider why what you replied with has absolutely nothing to do with the post you quoted before I give up all hope that you comprehensively read what I wrote and calmly explain it to you as if you were reading it through Google Translate.

 

[Bob Calistan]

So you just want it so your friend can hand you money that you don't want to earn. Yeah, no thanks.

There is a difference between genuinely earning your money and just mindlessly flying for it.

Genuinely earning would be either fighting for it, making or finding great trade deals, exploring far off planets and stars, or just bartering good deals.

In reality this game has very few opportunities for you to "earn" money. You either go and fight AI in an anaconda that are so dumb that you can fight them in a viper, scour the trade lanes for hours just to find one that will give you 5 percent more money than the next leading one, exploring gives you awful money unless you are willing to go 10,000+ light years from the area you scanned just to sell off some charts, and bartering is nonexistent. If my BROTHER (yes, it's my older brother, not a friend) wants to spare me the horrible pain he went through, why shouldn't he be able too?

And finally, if I hear all this money leads to is a disappointingly sad sense of "all for naught" and a ship that is honestly no better than one that costs millions less, and you expect me to grind for weeks and months to get it, if I may quote you for a second: "yeah, no thanks."

 

[Hell Razor5543]

Everybody is different. For me, the anticipation of building up enough resources to make a major change is a big part of the fun the game has to offer. However, I do not have an impatient mind-set. I understand there are Players who do not have the same level of patience I do, and want to get on with things now. OK, not a problem. However, FDev want Players to have EARNED they way up the ladder, with minimal assistance.

One argument against transfer of credits was if a Player got attacked by a Player Pirate, who then demanded large sum of credits. The problem with any reasonable argument is that both sides can advance acceptable points of view. However, the final decision rests with FDev, and unless there is a major change of attitude it is unlikely there will the possibility of credit transfer between Players.

 

[Kaocraft]

The lack of any direct form of exchange between players is one of the first of many odd design decisions that I noticed when I originally started playing this game, and I have to say that it was an absolutely brilliant move on FDev's part.

There are a lot of glaring omissions and "missing" features in Elite, but this is one thing that I hope they never "fix".

 

[Bob Calistan]

If you thought that I believed you were playing with newbies, that was not my intent (and I apologise if I caused you offense). I was merely pointing out that Trade Dividends exist. I also agreed that from some perspectives the amount they paid was minimal, but from other perspectives they were a game changer. I did miss the fact that you had been playing for a year or so.

There have been several posts in the past whereby people have suggested that FDev put in a system whereby Players with large fortunes can (in one way or another) 'give' another Player some credits. The main one appears to be that a new Player might get a friend Player (with a large fortune) to give him a large sum, and then buy and outfit an Anaconda to A Class with only a couple of days playing the game. The problem is that you may well then end up with people playing the game who have resources they have not earned, and with little or no respect for the game, or the Players who have made the effort to build up their resources themselves. I have several ships, a reasonable Balance, and a healthy enjoyment of the game (19 months and counting, with no plans to stop playing).

Sorry if I came off a little hard, I didn't mean it. However, I also am willing to argue that yes, there might be some people who get this game, and then get a friend with a lot of money to get them an anaconda, but honestly, if he truly is new he'll still get absolutely rekt by any person with any sort of skill as long as he has a semi decently equipped cobra or viper. If he didn't learn respect for the game before, he's gonna need to learn it now or spend several millions of credits on rebuy.

Also, you may think the trade part of the game is engaging and teaches you to respect the tools of the trade more, but I see much more people (including myself) see the trading in this game as shallow and boring. In games like X3, it was exciting. There was a stock market and prices fluctuated, you could send fleets of ships to trade for you from your factory complexes, and people would try to rival against you in the market.

In elite, it is no where close to that dynamic to say the least. Everything is done by you and your ship alone, the traveling in this game takes a REALLY long time, and prices barely change, which leads to people grinding the same route over and over and over again because it would eat up precious time to try and explore and find a new one which might not appear. They do need to make the trading more engaging before I even start to consider it as a long term source of income. Fighting is what they're good at, and I think I'm just going to stick to that for now with all due respect.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Everybody is different. For me, the anticipation of building up enough resources to make a major change is a bit part of the fun the game has to offer. However, I do not have an impatient mind-set. I understand there are Players who do not have the same level of patience I do, and want to get on with things now. OK, not a problem. However, FDev want Players to have EARNED they way up the ladder, with minimal assistance.

One argument against transfer of credits was if a Player got attacked by a Player Pirate, who then demanded large sum of credits. The problem with any reasonable argument is that both sides can advance acceptable points of view. However, the final decision rests with FDev, and unless there is a major change of attitude it is unlikely there will the possibility of credit transfer between Players.

People seem to assume I'm impatient,(which is understandable) but I'm really not. I know plenty of games with good trading, and this is NOT one of them, read the post I just replied with to the last guy, and you'll see what I mean.

The main issue is that this game just does trading so BAD. It's not fun, dynamic, or interactive. It's slowly going from point A to point B 700 times. Sorry, I just don't see the interesting component in that. Add fluctuating prices and have trading have better potential payout and I might start seeing it through.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

The lack of any direct form of exchange between players is one of the first of many odd design decisions that I noticed when I originally started playing this game, and I have to say that it was an absolutely brilliant move on FDev's part.

There are a lot of glaring omissions and "missing" features in Elite, but this is one thing that I hope they never "fix".

I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not, but I fail to see why a glaring lack of communication between players in a space simulator MMO is a good thing.

 

[Scoopy Doopy]

Fortunately, developers rarely base design decisions on the basis that some random guy on the forum has written pages and pages of in depth analysis of why he thinks some feature would be really good for him.

Developers generally have to consider new players, existing players and what their vision of the game is.

I don't know if it's a good idea or not though it strikes me as being similar to playing football and asking for the goal posts be further apart because your mate spent weeks and weeks of dull boring practice perfecting his nice bendy free kicks and you don't want to have to waste the time.

What I do know is that you haven't provided an argument here that doesn't boil down to "I want to".

 

[Bob Calistan]

I'll give you 20 minutes to read what I said again and consider why what you replied with has absolutely nothing to do with the post you quoted before I give up all hope that you comprehensively read what I wrote and calmly explain it to you as if you were reading it through Google Translate.

Please, tell me. I'm English and I can safely say, I have no idea what you posted in the first place, but it seemed like a spark for unnecessary confrontation. Maybe I'm missing something or misunderstood it, but that's what it seemed like to me, so I responded as such, no need to get your pants in a twist.

 

[Hell Razor5543]

If you don't mind, may I make a suggestion? Consider helping new Players get a grip on the game. Every so often I go into Starter Space with a full load of cargo (384T, when my Anaconda has an A4 Fuel Scoop), try and get new Players to wing up with me, and then sell my cargo. They get the Trade Dividends. I also offer advise, and answer all the questions I can (and if I get asked a question I don't know the answer to, I will try to find out). If time permits, I will also take them to a Nav Beacon (or a safe RES point), so that the new Players will also get Combat Bounties, as well as learn necessary combat skills (such as to wait until the sensors have completed their scan BEFORE opening fire, regardless of whether they are under attack!).

I find that this helps me to keep the game 'fresh' to me, as I recall how hard it was for me to get started, and how I struggled to get a grip on some things. I had the advantage that I played the original Elite, and the sequels, so I already had a basic grasp of the game.