Palmer + CV1 + Gaming World = shock.

[grammatonfeather]

I've been an Oculus fan since the early prototypes. I quickly adjusted to the Facebook acquisition even though it came only a week before April 1st so I naturally assumed it was a joke. Nevertheless I adjusted to it and accepted that it meant Palmer could use all custom parts. Well that turned out to be true. Not only custom parts but some never before methods used to create the fabric + hard shell casing union. No way did I foresee the pricing of the CV1 though. I thought it would be $584 (£400). Palmer is now in shock because the gaming world is in shock at the cost of CV1. It's too late for Palmer to back down now and reduce the cost of CV1 because that would imply that the price was artificially high in the first place which is certainly not true. The opposite is true: It's still selling below cost of R&D+manufacture. The biggest issue here is the fact that Vive includes the VR controllers. I've seen so many complaints across the gaming forums over the past year about CV1 not including Half-Moon but the <Ahem> xbox controller.

I think Palmer should announce he's giving Half-Moon to CV1 owners when it launches. This would make the CV1 pricing less of a reason for people to feel alienated and run to Gabe and HTC.

And what happens if the Vive is priced below CV1? There is an amazing opportunity to be had there for HTC+Valve. A percentage of people already vowed to buy Vive over CV1 based on spec alone. No one expected that perhaps Vive will be the same price or cheaper than CV1. Vive could be launched at a higher price than CV1 and that would be a disaster for Valve. I really can't see that happening but then I didn't imagine CV1 would be priced so high (especially given the lack of Half Moon).

Palmer really should give Half Moon to CV1 owners on launch. It would be a nice gesture (did you catch the pun?).

I would even say that charging people for Half Moon at a later date (given the cost of CV1) could be seen as an "Apple-esque" move. Apple charge users for things many feel should be inclusive.

 

[dementia]

I've been an Oculus fan since the early prototypes. I quickly adjusted to the Facebook acquisition even though it came only a week before April 1st so I naturally assumed it was a joke. Nevertheless I adjusted to it and accepted that it meant Palmer could use all custom parts. Well that turned out to be true. Not only custom parts but some never before methods used to create the fabric + hard shell casing union. No way did I foresee the pricing of the CV1 though. I thought it would be $584 (£400). Palmer is now in shock because the gaming world is in shock at the cost of CV1. It's too late for Palmer to back down now and reduce the cost of CV1 because that would imply that the price was artificially high in the first place which is certainly not true. The opposite is true: It's still selling below cost of R&D+manufacture. The biggest issue here is the fact that Vive includes the VR controllers. I've seen so many complaints across the gaming forums over the past year about CV1 not including Half-Moon but the <Ahem> xbox controller.

I think Palmer should announce he's giving Half-Moon to CV1 owners when it launches. This would make the CV1 pricing less of a reason for people to feel alienated and run to Gabe and HTC.

And what happens if the Vive is priced below CV1? There is an amazing opportunity to be had there for HTC+Valve. A percentage of people already vowed to buy Vive over CV1 based on spec alone. No one expected that perhaps Vive will be the same price or cheaper than CV1. Vive could be launched at a higher price than CV1 and that would be a disaster for Valve. I really can't see that happening but then I didn't imagine CV1 would be priced so high (especially given the lack of Half Moon).

Palmer really should give Half Moon to CV1 owners on launch. It would be a nice gesture (did you catch the pun?).

I would even say that charging people for Half Moon at a later date (given the cost of CV1) could be seen as an "Apple-esque" move. Apple charge users for things many feel should be inclusive.

I agree completely with the above.

 

[jabokai]

I don't think Palmer's in shjock, pre order delivery dates are already backed up to June now! But he seems to be aware that he didn't convey things properly -

“I handled the messaging poorly. Earlier last year, we started officially messaging that the Rift+Recommended spec PC would cost roughly $1500. That was around the time we committed to the path of prioritizing quality over cost, trying to make the best VR headset possible with current technology. Many outlets picked the story up as “Rift will cost $1500!”, which was honestly a good thing – the vast majority of consumers (and even gamers!) don’t have a PC anywhere close to the rec. spec, and many people were confused enough to think the Rift was a standalone device. For that vast majority of people, $1500 is the all-in cost of owning Rift. The biggest portion of their cost is the PC, not the Rift itself.”

“In a September interview, during the Oculus Connect developer conference, I made the infamous “roughly in that $350 ballpark, but it will cost more than that” quote. As an explanation, not an excuse: during that time, many outlets were repeating the “Rift is $1500!” line, and I was frustrated by how many people thought that was the price of the headset itself. My answer was ill-prepared, and mentally, I was contrasting $349 with $1500, not our internal estimate that hovered close to $599 – that is why I said it was in roughly the same ballpark.

Later on, I tried to get across that the Rift would cost more than many expected, in the past two weeks particularly. There are a lot of reasons we did not do a better job of prepping people who already have high end GPUs, legal, financial, competitive, and otherwise, but to be perfectly honest, our biggest failing was assuming we had been clear enough about setting expectations. Another problem is that people looked at the much less advanced technology in DK2 for $350 and assumed the consumer Rift would cost a similar amount, an assumption that myself (and Oculus) did not do a good job of fixing. I apologize.”

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I would be overjoyed if motion pads were given for free but I do not see it happening. IF VIVE is in same ball park cost as cv1 oculus may have a problem however if we take oculus at their word that they are selling at cost then more likely the vive will be close to $1K.
HTC are not in a great place right now and hardware associated with valve tend not to be great value (steamboxes for eg)

Don't get me wrong I am no oculus fanboy and if I am wrong my cv1 preorder will be getting cancelled just as it will if ED does not work with it. I can't afford to lose money on cv1 if it will be a doorstop and for me vr is 80% about ED

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I don't think Palmer's in shjock, pre order delivery dates are already backed up to June now! [/I]

That doesn't mean anything. We have no knowledge of how many they are even making or have ready for Day 1.

 

[cmdr awesome]

Quote from Palmer Luckey on this subject:

I handled the messaging poorly. Earlier last year, we started officially messaging that the Rift+Recommended spec PC would cost roughly $1500. That was around the time we committed to the path of prioritizing quality over cost, trying to make the best VR headset possible with current technology. Many outlets picked the story up as “Rift will cost $1500!”, which was honestly a good thing - the vast majority of consumers (and even gamers!) don’t have a PC anywhere close to the rec. spec, and many people were confused enough to think the Rift was a standalone device. For that vast majority of people, $1500 is the all-in cost of owning Rift. The biggest portion of their cost is the PC, not the Rift itself.
For gamers that already have high end GPUs, the equation is obviously different. In a September interview, during the Oculus Connect developer conference, I made the infamous “roughly in that $350 ballpark, but it will cost more than that” quote. As an explanation, not an excuse: during that time, many outlets were repeating the “Rift is $1500!” line, and I was frustrated by how many people thought that was the price of the headset itself. My answer was ill-prepared, and mentally, I was contrasting $349 with $1500, not our internal estimate that hovered close to $599 - that is why I said it was in roughly the same ballpark. Later on, I tried to get across that the Rift would cost more than many expected, in the past two weeks particularly. There are a lot of reasons we did not do a better job of prepping people who already have high end GPUs, legal, financial, competitive, and otherwise, but to be perfectly honest, our biggest failing was assuming we had been clear enough about setting expectations. Another problem is that people looked at the much less advanced technology in DK2 for $350 and assumed the consumer Rift would cost a similar amount, an assumption that myself (and Oculus) did not do a good job of fixing. I apologize.
To be perfectly clear, we don’t make money on the Rift. The Xbox controller costs us almost nothing to bundle, and people can easily resell it for profit. A lot of people wish we would sell a bundle without “useless extras” like high-end audio, a carrying case, the bundled games, etc, but those just don’t significantly impact the cost. The core technology in the Rift is the main driver - two built-for-VR OLED displays with very high refresh rate and pixel density, a very precise tracking system, mechanical adjustment systems that must be lightweight, durable, and precise, and cutting-edge optics that are more complex to manufacture than many high end DSLR lenses. It is expensive, but for the $599 you spend, you get a lot more than spending $599 on pretty much any other consumer electronics devices - phones that cost $599 cost a fraction of that to make, same with mid-range TVs that cost $599. There are a lot of mainstream devices in that price-range, so as you have said, our failing was in communication, not just price.

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/3zt7ul/i_am_palmer_luckey_founder_of_oculus_and_designer/

 

[rich_hard1]

The cost of the CV1 is spot on considering the tech acquired.
Two separate dense OLED pentile pixel panels each being magnified by a lens which totally omit any SDE and provide a larger sweet spot of clarity. That to me is already fantastic. Couple this with Refresh Rate and SDK improvements the image displayed will be much improved over both previous iterations.
Then you have the Housing which is light as a feather and will always win 'best' in design and 'materials' awards yet still manages to be strong and ultimately 'comfortable'.
Don't forget aswell the HMD also includes an internal board to allow the XBox One Controller to operate wirelessly within Windows 10, although it could be housed inside the Tracker itself. Then the Tracker itself, can be placed anywhere not directly in front of you, a greater area in which to sense any instant movement of the HMD.
Then you've got a dedicated remote providing additional support for GearVR ports, Marketplace actions and additional control over standard controller actions for those not familiar with the standard controller.
The XBox one Controller itself, which could be sold as many already own one, and two complete VR games showcasing VR in its entirety in terms of multiplayer support and graphical capabilities and let me tell you, Valkyrie is simply amazing, THE best VR Game I've played since using VR, I've tried everything, Even Elite doesn't come close to the Dogfighting experience, it's incredible.
Topping that, all Pre-Orders qualify for discount from the Touch Device released later this year.
The Vive Price with all that added camera tech and new slimmer HMD design etc will not be released for less than $700, if they did they'll lose a shed tonne of money.
Palme's designs/tech and overall aesthetics of oculus through DK1, DK2 and CV1 have been constant and thorough, with close attention to conformity and compatibility with multiple Development Suites have been precise, this has future-proofed the device already. I know where my money's at, the founder of VR, Oculus VR.

 

[cmdr awesome]

From same source:

When will the 1.0 Rift SDK be made available to all developers?
permalink
[–]palmerluckey 287 points 6 hours ago
At launch.

This sounds like we shouldn't expect FD to announce rift support until April at the earliest.

 

[jabokai]

From 21st December - "Rift SDK 1.0 is shipping this week to developers with early builds of final Rift hardware.

If you’re shipping a Rift title in Q1, you’ll need early access to Rift hardware and new platform features to finalize your game or application. The Rift SDK 1.0 and runtime include features tied to the consumer product, so we’ve currently limited the release to developers putting final touches on launch titles."

We don't know for sure if FD qualified or not but seeing as they have already shipped ED, rather than planning to ship in Q1, we could assume so.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

From same source:

When will the 1.0 Rift SDK be made available to all developers?
permalink
[–]palmerluckey 287 points 6 hours ago
At launch.

This sounds like we shouldn't expect FD to announce rift support until April at the earliest.

Developers with key vr titles already have it and have for some time. IF FD don't for some reason given the months of "we are working closely with oculus" then something is afoot!.
Iirc frontier had access to dk2 early doors

 

[cmdr awesome]

Developers with key vr titles already have it and have for some time. IF FD don't for some reason given the months of "we are working closely with oculus" then something is afoot!.
Iirc frontier had access to dk2 early doors

Why would they hold it back from general release if it was finished?
More likely they are on v0.9.x internally and this is shared with FD, but the problems that FS have already identified are still unresolved.
That's why FD have no news - they are waiting on Oculus to address the issues and the SDK isn't final yet.

 

[xyphic]

Why would they hold it back from general release if it was finished?
More likely they are on v0.9.x internally and this is shared with FD, but the problems that FS have already identified are still unresolved.
That's why FD have no news - they are waiting on Oculus to address the issues and the SDK isn't final yet.

There are features within the device and its software that Oculus are still keeping under wraps, but that the 1.0 SDK leaks information about. It's being given to select developers under strict NDA so those features remain secret until Oculus decide it's time to reveal them.

 

[rich_hard1]

The hope is, that SDK1.0 holds the key to superiorority within VR, the judders, the low FPS, I'm hoping that Oculus knew this all along, they held back the game-changing answer to 'those' problems with VR, despite us having super kick ass setups, we were still experiencing those same VR issues. But SDK1.0 holds the prima, the answer to all our woes.

 

[Sir.Tj]

There are features within the device and its software that Oculus are still keeping under wraps, but that the 1.0 SDK leaks information about. It's being given to select developers under strict NDA so those features remain secret until Oculus decide it's time to reveal them.

To be fair that is a good point.

I myself am under a NDA with Frontier and am not allowed to tell you all the following.

Spoiler

Zac is really 98 years old.
David Braben's socks must always match his jumper Always....
Ed keeps his hair so shiny with freshly squeezed monkey glands.
BrettC is really Chuck Norris in disguise..
Sandro cannot say the letter P..

But as I said I'm not allowed to share that info...

 

[Ian Phillips]

T.j

Please report to Chuck Norris for a roundhouse kick, immediately!

 

[Adam Lusardi]

To be fair that is a good point.

I myself am under a NDA with Frontier and am not allowed to tell you all the following.

Spoiler

Zac is really 98 years old.
David Braben's socks must always match his jumper Always....
Ed keeps his hair so shiny with freshly squeezed monkey glands.
BrettC is really Chuck Norris in disguise..
Sandro cannot say the letter P..

But as I said I'm not allowed to share that info...

Now that is a reveal of the true workings......as usual nothing about Mr Brookes and his "secret writers guild".

 

[Bobbydylan]

The motion controller and lighthouse system have always sounded superior to the Rift IMHO. The only thing that would have made me go Oculus way is the price and the earlier release date. Now, I'll wait for the Vive.

 

[Sir.Tj]

Now that is a reveal of the true workings......as usual nothing about Mr Brookes and his "secret writers guild".

If I said anything about that I'd find a Large Plasma Accelerator pointed in my direction...

But, back on topic....

I can see why the price is set at £500 due to the extra items included and fair play to Palmer for admitting they'd made mistakes leading upto the announcement.

However, for many the price is way out of reach along with the additional cost of PC hardware upgrades that most would need to factor in.

It's a real shame that something that was stated to be an affordable item does seem to have priced itself out of the market.

Fingers crossed the 1.0 sdk will be fine with the DK2 and when the CV1 starts to ship there will be plenty of DK2s for sale for those who cannot afford it.

 

[Juniper]

I can see why the price is set at £500 due to the extra items included and fair play to Palmer for admitting they'd made mistakes leading upto the announcement.

However, for many the price is way out of reach along with the additional cost of PC hardware upgrades that most would need to factor in.

It's a real shame that something that was stated to be an affordable item does seem to have priced itself out of the market.

Fingers crossed the 1.0 sdk will be fine with the DK2 and when the CV1 starts to ship there will be plenty of DK2s for sale for those who cannot afford it.

Nail on head moment.

Would like to see a packaged Rift with no extras - no controller, remote, headphones or games I won't play.

Also want to see a firm commitment to Steam VR support.

Then maybe they'll get my interest. Until then, it's just like buying the "collector's edition" of something when the actual price of the thing is much less.

I really hope 1.0 will support the DK2 or it'll be a big kick in the teeth.

 

[Tony Spaniels]

Exactly all this. The DK2 cost me about £350 altogether iirc so I had no real qualms about the price for CV1, only £150 more or thereabouts including postage. If I needed to I would need to put away an extra £30 or so a month for 4 months into the savings to cover the extra cost on top of the price of a DK2. Im not short of a few bob but still that's not a deal breaker in my opinion. I guess if people have already ponied up for computer upgrades its going to rankle a bit more but still, the CV1 is a serious piece of kit and the world's first consumer ready first generation VR HMD with new cutting edge tech as said above.
I know some folk on here pretty much play only Elite on their DK2's and others intend to only use vr playing Elite in general and thats cool and I understand the hesitation in investing on CV1, but I dont know why people didnt just get on the preorder list for the sake of being on it as now they are back of the Queue if they change their mind. It took a good long while before the dk2 order waiting time went down from 2 months to a week. They could always have cancelled at a later stage, and you get plenty of warning in advance before they process your order. To be honest I think FD will get Elite sorted with oculus sooner or later, but I for sure cross my fingers for that.
For me though there are so many other cool games out already that are vr enabled that are bloody good fun and on top of that you can Vorpx old and new games. Fallout 4 is a cracker in VR even if its only 3D adaptive for example. Racing sims like Project Cars or iRacing are going to be full on next level entertainment using CV1 (or Vive). Then there's the bucket load of made for vr games still to come next year that utilises the awesome unique power of VR. And thats just at the beginning. Its going to be fan-tastic!