Pilot Height

space pilot

space pilot
I play in VR and since I'm not 4'10", looking down is always quite weird. My virtual toes are about where my knees are IRL. I also saw some footage of a seated pilot in 2.3 beta, Commanders I presume, with an exposed head. He looked like a slim Dwarf in the Tolkien universe, no exaggeration.

I feel like I'm nitpicking to suggest having height adjustable or at least increase the standard height a bit. On the other hand being able to customize my face in a game where I never see it would have been the last thing I asked for, so maybe others are at least as "vain" as I am.
 

Captain N

C
The ability to customise the pilot's body proportions would be a great addition to Holo-me, of course.

With VR this is more important than ever, since it's no longer just a cosmetic/RP thing. Having wrongly proportioned body compared to your RL body can impact immersion and sense of scale.

That said, it seems there's currently an issue with VR in ED (a bug, I presume) where the scale appears extremely wrong for some people. Some people have a midget in their seat while others see a giant.

The design of the cockpits and seats themselves, of course, can also make pilots appear "small" like you witnessed in the 2.3 footage. But I believe that effect is separate from what people are experiencing in VR. The cockpits are just supposed to be roomy like that.
 

space pilot

space pilot
Captain N said:
The design of the cockpits and seats themselves, of course, can also make pilots appear "small" like you witnessed in the 2.3 footage. But I believe that effect is separate from what people are experiencing in VR. The cockpits are just supposed to be roomy like that.
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I think it's a body proportion issue. Where the average adult's head from top to chin is about 1/7 their height, the model in question is surely different, maybe 1/6. Most of the "loss" is below the waist. Tiny legs. See 5:20 here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WR-4waMknIg
 
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Captain N

C
I have roomscale VR and I have stood right next to the Holo Me, and it's almost exactly the same height as me and I see nothing wrong with the body proportions.

That part in the vid you linked, I can sort of see what you mean, but it's not an issue with the proportions so much than an illusion caused by perspective, camera distortion and the fact the pilot's legs are hidden behind the seat. In any case not the best camera angle to use if you want to measure something like this.
 

space pilot

space pilot
Captain N said:
I have roomscale VR and I have stood right next to the Holo Me, and it's almost exactly the same height as me and I see nothing wrong with the body proportions.

That part in the vid you linked, I can sort of see what you mean, but it's not an issue with the proportions so much than an illusion caused by perspective, camera distortion and the fact the pilot's legs are hidden behind the seat. In any case not the best camera angle to use if you want to measure something like this.
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I have no experience with Holo Me, but it makes sense to me that they would make sure standing height was correct. That's not to say seated proportions are correct, which are all I ever see, and it's most definitely not an illusion caused by the seat in that video. I really don't want to draw lines over the body parts in a screen grab, then measure them, then draw a standing body using those measurements to show that he really does have tiny legs, but someone could. I'd be tempted to if I heard much more disagreement.
 
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fennster

fennster
IPD is the issue or Interpupillary distance. Because some peoples eyes are, in physical reality, different widths apart in comparison to the width of the virtual cameras.

Check for your headset if there is any way to adjust the IPD.
 

space pilot

space pilot
fennster said:
IPD is the issue or Interpupillary distance. Because some peoples eyes are, in physical reality, different widths apart in comparison to the width of the virtual cameras.

Check for your headset if there is any way to adjust the IPD.
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There is, it's been adjusted, and I know from experience that changing it doesn't make things bigger or smaller. It makes them blurrier or clearer and makes my head hurt more or less.

Tell me it's not a huge deal, because it's not, but I'm surprised to hear people say the seated pilot isn't short with tiny legs. That's just a fact, which I heard in reviews before I even played the game.
 
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Captain N

C
space pilot said:
I have no experience with Holo Me, but it makes sense to me that they would make sure standing height was correct. That's not to say seated proportions are correct, which are all I ever see, and it's most definitely not an illusion caused by the seat in that video. I really don't want to draw lines over the body parts in a screen grab, then measure them, then draw a standing body using those measurements to show that he really does have tiny legs, but someone could. I'd be tempted to if I heard much more disagreement.
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o2JA01q.jpg


This is what the avatars look like when standing in Holo-me. Based on my measurements about 7-7.5 heads tall. Seem like fairly normal, realistic, non-idealised proportions.

5IiqHPt.png


Here's the avatar sitting on the seat. I took the screenshot from the outside using maximum zoom to minimise perspective distortion. Distance from top of head to crotch (middle point of body) about 3.5 heads.

uQgmbo4.png


This one's a bit tricky because of the angle but I tried to lay out the diagram from the previous picture over a shot from the above and scale it to match the figure.

QeRbZws.png


This is the best picture I could get from the side. The seat obscures a lot but to me everything looks like what is to be expected based on the shots above.
 

space pilot

space pilot
Captain N said:
This is the best picture I could get from the side. The seat obscures a lot but to me everything looks like what is to be expected based on the shots above.
QeRbZws.png
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She looks "right" to me. However, that doesn't look like it's in the same engine as the game I'm playing, whereas the bearded Dwarf does, and when I look down, tiny legs.

Should I hope for a body proportions revision, based on your images?
 
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Captain N

C
Camera angle revision, perhaps. And a revision to VR world scale which seems to be messed up for a lot of people. (I don't have that issue though)

Zoom and camera angle can have a huge effect on what a person's body looks like.
 

space pilot

space pilot
Captain N said:
Camera angle revision, perhaps. And a revision to VR world scale which seems to be messed up for a lot of people. (I don't have that issue though)

Zoom and camera angle can have a huge effect on what a person's body looks like.
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You mentioned world/cockpit scale before as well. Have you tried VR? First of all, highly recommended. Secondly, in my experience with the Rift CV1, the Eagle's cockpit is like a glove, to the point of feeling a little cramped. In contrast, the Vulture's is gigantic. I only recall one body size though, and I'm convinced it's the designed model size which is relatively small compared to the average adult human, and probably with disproportionatly short legs as well--not a camera angle or technical issue. It's entirely plausible they "went small" to provide a buffer for potential problems like cockpit clipping. If someone is on the short side IRL it might be natural, but at 6'4" it is an immersion issue, albeit minor. I don't stare at my legs much.
 

space pilot

space pilot
Erring on the side of safety with measurements hoping to avoid controversy, I found quite a difference in proportions between the two male pilots. The leg (as measured) to forearm (as measured) ratios are 2.03 and 1.42. I suggest the difference is large enough to rule out perspective and (virtual) lens distortion. There are different versions of pilot bodies in different versions and/or modes of the game.

MOjj6Sg.jpg


SjSInI5.png
 

SeaFireliv

SeaFireliv
As an artist myself who understands the proportions of the Human body, I can tell you that, even without access to the 2.3 Beta CC, that they have the male and female proportions actually wrong. They should in no way measure identically.

It`s basically a weird, idealised body and in my opinion I would call it `politically correct`, but not real life correct. So it`s . But in games well, they do what they want to do especially if enough whiners keep moaning `sexism` at them.
 
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space pilot

space pilot
Captain N said:
That's one of the default views in the camera so it's easy to replicate.

...

See a difference in leg to forearm ratio?
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She doesn't look too weird for a 3D game character in those, except for the long neck in the last. There is noticeable camera distortion (e.g. streched head in first), and there are differences among the pictures in 2D proportional measurements because of the angles (limb length can go to 0 in 2D). The first shot, the parallel of the bearded guy, has a bit different camera angle, more "over the shoulder", and it seems to be with a different virtual lens. It's different, in other words. His proportions look off without obvious camera distortion, while hers don't with some obvious camera distortion, possibly because of the distortion. If I know I'm looking through a fisheye lens, I don't think the walls are actually curved.

Can you move the camera freely in the cockpit? I wonder if the same models are used for every angle.
 
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