PiMax 4K vs BE?

powerbookboy

P
I've recently tested a Vive headset at Belong in Bristol and was pretty darned impressed. However I did notice the very obvious pixels when looking at largely dark background as Elite is much of the time.

I've been toying with getting a DK2 as cheap as possible and using that until better video cards and true 4K headsets become available, or getting the PiMax 4K or BE. Currently I have a 6700K + 1060 6GB which runs 1440p absolutely fine ( on Windows, on a Mac it stutters badly quite a lot).

I can't get a definitive understanding of what the deference is between the resolution of the 4K and the BE. Reviews seem very polarised and it's often unclear which PiMax headset people have used. Some reviews say ghosting and tracking is dreadful, some say it's not a problem. Is there anyone out there that has used both a DK2 and a PiMax and could give a view on which would be a better investment and which version they have? Would the PiMax run on a 1060/6Gb at anywhere near acceptable framerates?

I would really like to dip my toe into Elite in VR but find it difficult to justify spending £400 on a CV1 that's last gen tech with roomscale stuff I don't care about. The PiMax seems to promise so much, but I'm hesitant to buy something that's got such variable reviews, some of which seem just like paid promotions.

Your thoughts greatly appreciated...
 

Andrej

Andrej
Can you wait for 3 month? It is possible that next best thing just around the corner.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/pimax8kvr/pimax-the-worlds-first-8k-vr-headset/description Its only 17 hours left, but this thing, probably, make all other VR headset, obsolete. I won`t be surprise if this headset will stay as king of the hills for at least 2 years.

I know it is a gamble, but it looks really promising.

P.S. they have some inexpense options like like 5K basic or First 8K Ever.
 
Last edited:

TorTorden_VR

T
that's only if you pledge NOW.
Public release won't be until may-june 2018.

Also a 1060 would not do well in vr, it's basically comparative to a 970 and that's fine for 1440p on a screen.

There is a huge difference between a screen and vr.
 

loribee

loribee
Ok, so I think I can give you some feedback

I ordered the 4k Headset about three months ago, and somehow ended up with the BE/B1 model - you can't buy this commercially retail I believe - it was shipped out by mistake to Gearbest. Now that's not to say you won't find anyone who might have one for sale.

Anyhow, IMHO the BE/B1 is a *better* heaset for Elite Dangerous, despite it being lower resolution than the 4k - so much so that I ended up keeping mine.

K0YXo58.jpg


It's higher resolution than the Rift/Vive and it's got an OLED display (instead of the LED one that the 4k uses) - which means there is no ghosting and blacks look really black

Initially there were tracking issues with it .. oh boy were there tracking issues !! I was hitting that remap HUD hotkey every minute or two! -- but Pimax to their credit, fixed all of that malarkey with updated piplay drivers, and now I maybe need to push it once per play session (typically about an hour for me)

Now, I found it worked fine with my GTX1060 (given that it's a lower res than the 4k) and I was getting solid 66FPS with it .. by the way, 66FPS is the fastest framerate you'll get with this - I honestly don't know why, apparently the oled screens are locked at 66Hz - even though they're supposed to be higher from all the specs I read. (see above)

For me, that's not an issue though and I don't get motion sickness from 66Hz/FPS - people tell you that you need 90hz or go home .. I don't believe that to be true

I *did* however upgrade my graphics card to a 1080 - but this was more because I got a new 34" curved 21:9 monitor and I wanted to drive that at max resolution 100FPS - it's had the knock on effect of me being able to tweak up the pimax settings a little more though - from high to ultra on a few.

here is a picture from my iphone through the lens of the pimax B1

GR0PeDu.jpg


so TL;DR - yes it's a good headset for Elite and I would recommend one to anyone - however if you want to do more than Elite, then get a Rift/Vive to get proper head-tracking.

buuuuut .. that being said .. they've got this little kickstarter going on (and about to end) with the new 8k headset - i've personally demo'd one and its absolutely amazing .. the 200 degree FOV is an absolute game changer - plus the resolution bump and proper tracking and controllers - it's a complete solution as opposed to just a HMD (which is what you're getting with the 4k/BE)

My advice --if you can afford it, jump straight to the 8k ... or if you can't then by all means try to get hold of a BE model if you can - I personally think it's better for Elite than the regular 4k 'set but if you want to do more than play elite - then go with the rift/vive for the controllers and the proper tracking.

oh and if you *do* go for the 8k, then plan on getting a GTX1080 - your 1060 does not meet the minimum requirements for the 8k.


Full Disclosure, I'm a backer for the 8k Bundle
 
Last edited:

powerbookboy

P
Andrej said:
Can you wait for 3 month? It is possible that next best thing just around the corner.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/pimax8kvr/pimax-the-worlds-first-8k-vr-headset/description Its only 17 hours left, but this thing, probably, make all other VR headset, obsolete. I won`t be surprise if this headset will stay as king of the hills for at least 2 years.

I know it is a gamble, but it looks really promising.

P.S. they have some inexpense options like like 5K basic or First 8K Ever.
Click to expand...

The issue i have with this is the total cost of ownership. I'll be looking at well over £1000 by the time I've upgraded to a 1080, the 8K PiMax and a better HOTAS -all for a technology I'm not even sure I'll get on well enough for long gaming sessions. I guess I can hope that lots of you Kickstarters will be putting your old kit on Ebay :)
 

powerbookboy

P
loribee said:
Ok, so I think I can give you some feedback

I ordered the 4k Headset about three months ago, and somehow ended up with the BE/B1 model - you can't buy this commercially retail I believe - it was shipped out by mistake to Gearbest. Now that's not to say you won't find anyone who might have one for sale.

Anyhow, IMHO the BE/B1 is a *better* heaset for Elite Dangerous, despite it being lower resolution than the 4k - so much so that I ended up keeping mine.

It's higher resolution than the Rift/Vive and it's got an OLED display (instead of the LED one that the 4k uses) - which means there is no ghosting and blacks look really black

Full Disclosure, I'm a backer for the 8k Bundle
Click to expand...

Thank you. Can you see an obvious pixel boundary on your BE? The obvious grid of pixels was what I found most distracting using the VIVE ( is that what people referring to screen door effect mean? ) and I was hoping that the higher res PiMax screens might make it less obvious. The pixel persistence "smearing" on the 4K LCD version sounds equally distracting.

I'm conscious of the fact that currently there is no perfect solution, so what I'm looking for is a way of testing the water without knackering my finances, and if it's something my eyes and brain can tolerate for extended gaming sessions then I can think about spending silly money on when the technology has matured a bit.

I work in IT and know that "bleeding edge" technology is usually expensive, over-hyped and hassle, so I tend to wait until prices drop and support matures before spending my own money. Elite is the only thing in nearly 30 years of computing that's making me itch to break this rule. I spent so much time bashing away on my BBC B back in the 1980s that it feels like coming home...
 

loribee

loribee
powerbookboy said:
Thank you. Can you see an obvious pixel boundary on your BE? The obvious grid of pixels was what I found most distracting using the VIVE ( is that what people referring to screen door effect mean? ) and I was hoping that the higher res PiMax screens might make it less obvious. The pixel persistence "smearing" on the 4K LCD version sounds equally distracting.

I'm conscious of the fact that currently there is no perfect solution, so what I'm looking for is a way of testing the water without knackering my finances, and if it's something my eyes and brain can tolerate for extended gaming sessions then I can think about spending silly money on when the technology has matured a bit.

I work in IT and know that "bleeding edge" technology is usually expensive, over-hyped and hassle, so I tend to wait until prices drop and support matures before spending my own money. Elite is the only thing in nearly 30 years of computing that's making me itch to break this rule. I spent so much time bashing away on my BBC B back in the 1980s that it feels like coming home...
Click to expand...

There might be a little, but I can't say that I notice it during gameplay to be honest. I've never tried the Vive, but I did try the Rift, and think the BE was better than that. I posted a picture of the screen through the lens, that should give you an idea what it's like - The game looks amazing to me on my headset.

I would go for a 4k BE, I am pretty sure you'll be able to dip your toe into the water of VR and be relatively impressed. I ran one with the settings dialed down a little to what I have now with the GTX1080 - you need a HDMI port available on your 1060 (if your screen is HDMI already, just use a DP to HDMI for it on the GTX1060) you will also need a USB 3.0 port for the headset.

Like I said before, I ran it with a 1060 for about two months and only updated to the GTX1080 when I got a higher resolution monitor --not because of the Pimax.

1060 vs 1080 - some settings differences.

Steam SS 1.2 vs Pimax 2.0 (latest Pimax has it's own internal supersampling)
Elite SS .50 vs 0.65
HMD Quality 1.0 (same)

i'm using the latest version of Piplay which pretty much eliminated drift for me. you just need to run steam room setup before each play session (which takes 30 seconds) - I do have remap HMD mapped to a HOTAS button, and I probably press it once per session

after 6 months you could then upgrade to a GTX1080, increase the settings further and by then the Pimax 8k will be commercially available

hope that helps you out. If you're not able to get the BE/B1, then I would go with the Rift I guess - that way you also get the controllers and tracking.
 
Last edited:

Red River

Red River
you don't really need to run the steamvr room setup more than once. I certainly don't and it works fine. try it!
 

loribee

loribee
Red River said:
you don't really need to run the steamvr room setup more than once. I certainly don't and it works fine. try it!
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, every time I start SteamVR I am facing in the wrong direction, which is why I need to do the room setup every time to start on a good baseline.
 

Red River

Red River
loribee said:
Unfortunately, every time I start SteamVR I am facing in the wrong direction, which is why I need to do the room setup every time to start on a good baseline.
Click to expand...

just recenter in game - problem solved.
that's how I deal with it. quicker than running the room setup...
 

Jokergod2000

Jokergod2000
I used a DK2 with Elite for about a year. It was a great headset. The screen door is not much worse than the CV1 and there was none of the god rays you get with the CV1. If you are getting anything VR make sure it has head tracking though; if it does not have head tracking it's not VR. Nothing like leaning forward to look our your cockpit. That being said, I have read that a lot of people have issues getting DK2 to work like it used to because Oculus is not really supporting it anymore. I would lean towards the new Samsung Odyssey coming out in a few days. OLED screen, built in audio (must have), and 80% more pixels than VIVE or Oculus. Also no external sensors.
 

powerbookboy

P
Thanks to all who answered with helpful and informative advice. I have bought a 2nd hand DK2.

First impression were bad. Immediately got motion sickness when in the station, text was blurry, screen door terribly obvious, detail crap in comparison to my 1440p monitor, headset tracking keeps going off centre, controls are tricky with a low end HOTAS like I currently have because I just don't have enough buttons, navigating the starmap is near impossible and I also wear glasses which dig into my face around the bridge of my nose with the headset on something rotten. So lots to moan about.

But blimey can I see the possibilities. The sense of scale is astonishing near stations, in RESes, and during combat. So much so that pretty quickly I'm beginning to filter out the negatives. I spent some time just swoping in and out of the asteroids just for the sheer hell of it, something I would never do in 2D. Combat is incredible, you get such a greater impression of speed and using your head to track enemies feels so natural.

When a device with similar pixel density to 1920/1440 display shows up and there are video card man enough to drive them VR is going to utterly extraordinary. I remember watching Gravity when the debris cloud hits the station and being blown away. When we've got that sort of visual experience that we can control... Blimey.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom