Ships Pimp my Sidewinder!

[A C Ender]

I think we all got some sense of fondness for the sidewinder. I realise that it probably won't be the best in anything, but I want to see just how far we can push it! For combat it got a few things going for it; Enhanced Performance Thrusters & a tiny profile. This makes it agile and hard to hit with fixed weapons, which is hard to measure exactly how effective it is. My ideal sidewinder would be flown in open and use to frustrate, and if possible, chase of gankers. I realise that may be asking to much of the tiny guy, but let's see how far we can go!

Here's the challenge;

Push a Sidewinder to the very limit! Be this exploration, combat, or other. Any and all engineering allowed and encouraged.

Please also use this thread to discuss how to make it as good as possible for whichever chosen role!

 

[A C Ender]

This is my submission, using dirty drag enhanced performance thrusters and staying below minimum mass for maximum agility and speed.

Spoiler: Combat Sidewinder

https://coriolis.io/outfit/sidewinder?code=A0p3u0F3l3d0s0f1cy290800m3m3252525B6.AwRj4yyA.AwiMIyqA.H4sIAAAAAAAAA42RL08DQRDF35X26PVKj7tAORJCgB4IBAmShASJIwhCkDUYFAJBMCD4ABVVKAQfAImoQCARNU0QDUEiEIQQBH/mMQNhQxNIuuLlZec3u29nIYMAPgoq7w2VsJUDho7KQLylLrkIgezZA+jJiiMPVYpXARAtv5DV00jrOam6+p5KlL2SI5Nv5KjV0/M8UNsdU3JAxh15oOJd3pHfeFc3a22NxLws/kDR/gOZXN+SLMiSaz1WCcpClpoxMG1uxtysuTlz9KXee4jdtGCZWZRNd5Ki8DeeNETjXqGbLpnWHxUKfkHb/0ElWXXQiY3wzNfr1vXhsbnU5pSZYyjBH2+qyLzrb1p/R21lakK/wFxi08vMMeqbHO6bjGXNkTsWzEqxpc++PovoXZ9oxAl2MQIAAA==.IwegLCoAwgTCMCmBDA5gG0SEA2YAOBIqIA==&bn=Speed

Shields: The 1c Bi-weave is just to absorb any stray shot and come back up quickly. Chaff to avoid turrets and gimbal. Fixed you can hopefully avoid with agility and size.

Hull: The hull reinforcements are placed on the class 1 to save weight and are mainly used to increase resistances. I'm hoping that's how hull reinforcements work and that they don't just apply to the module itself.

Weapons: The Phasing Cytoscrambler and Rail is to try and punch above your weight as much as possible. Hopefully you can keep a high uptime and punish the hull through any shield tank with phasing. Once shields drop you go all out sniping modules. The alternative would be dual of either, but if they get wise to you only attacking during shields with Cyto they may stop regenerating shields and you can't do anything. The other option with dual rails might struggle to get through the shields.

 

[13A]

Anti-ganker ships are something that's been proposed in the past for CGs. Basically something cheap, fast and annoying. Interdict them, then run.
The idea is that if they're having to deal with your interdiction, then they're not interdicting somebody else.

Cheap as chips

 

[A C Ender]

Anti-ganker ships are something that's been proposed in the past for CGs. Basically something cheap, fast and annoying. Interdict them, then run.
The idea is that if they're having to deal with your interdiction, then they're not interdicting somebody else.

Cheap as chips

That's not a bad idea. Also forgive my ignorance, but what does CG mean?

Wouldn't it be even better if you could also make them run away? Is it -possible- though harder and more expensive? Or would you interdict them again as soon as they enter supercruise?

 

[13A]

That's not a bad idea. Also forgive my ignorance, but what does CG mean?

Wouldn't it be even better if you could also make them run away? Is it -possible- though harder and more expensive? Or would you interdict them again as soon as they enter supercruise?

Community Goals aka Interstellar Initiatives

The problem is that you won't make them run away in a sidewinder, you'll die. Your weapons will hardly dent them, theirs will vaporise you.

The idea is to be annoying. Interdict, run away, jump to SC. Rinse and repeat.

 

[dm06]

The problem is that you won't make them run away in a sidewinder

Effecient beams with thermal shock?

My point is that small ships are weak when things go to collisions. No need to aim and shoot small ship, just ram it.

 

[Old Duck]

The problem is that you won't make them run away in a sidewinder, you'll die. Your weapons will hardly dent them, theirs will vaporise you.

The idea is to be annoying. Interdict, run away, jump to SC. Rinse and repeat.

You can be annoying with weapons. I used to really tick off griefers on PS4 in my tricked-out Sidewinder using special effects like drag munitions and FSD interrupt.

To the OP, one my favorite builds these days is the stealth build. The Sidewinder is great for this because it's so small, so it visually "disappears" in SR as well. This coupled with weapons of annoyance makes for a fun time in places like Jameson Memorial.

 

[Northpin]

This may work, but only against noobs.
Fixed hitscan weapons are quite common in pvp. And you can't really evade hitscans.
Any competent pilot using rails will kill a Sidewinder's PP in 2-3 seconds.

You cant rely on the speed either. Sidey does 745m/s with perf thrusters.
That's roughly 200m/s more than a regular gank boat. You'd need 10s to put 2km between you and that's more than enough to be splashed by long range rails.

@op - running perf thrusters with an overcharged 2d PP... well, that's a good recipe to make a nice omelet inside your pilot's remlock suit

 

[A C Ender]

Effecient beams with thermal shock?

My point is that small ships are weak when things go to collisions. No need to aim and shoot small ship, just ram it.

Is thermal shock effective enough to overheat a typical griefer loadout?

Do you have enough agility to avoid collisions in the sidewinder maybe?

You can be annoying with weapons. I used to really tick off griefers on PS4 in my tricked-out Sidewinder using special effects like drag munitions and FSD interrupt.

To the OP, one my favorite builds these days is the stealth build. The Sidewinder is great for this because it's so small, so it visually "disappears" in SR as well. This coupled with weapons of annoyance makes for a fun time in places like Jameson Memorial.

What weapons are your choice for different annoying affects and to keep them occupied? Also note that Cytoscrambler DPS is about same as large beam, add to that the portion bleeding straight to hull while ignoring hardness.

This may work, but only against noobs.
Fixed hitscan weapons are quite common in pvp. And you can't really evade hitscans.
Any competent pilot using rails will kill a Sidewinder's PP in 2-3 seconds.

You cant rely on the speed either. Sidey does 745m/s with perf thrusters.
That's roughly 200m/s more than a regular gank boat. You'd need 10s to put 2km between you and that's more than enough to be splashed by long range rails.

@op - running perf thrusters with an overcharged 2d PP... well, that's a good recipe to make a nice omelet inside your pilot's remlock suit

This is exactly what I'm after, discussion! While I'm new, I wanna learn and also try and push boundaries.

If you think hitscan is the main problem, you could engineer for more thermal resist. The setup I did (which may not be best) can absorb 4 rails with 4 pip in SYS unless you use short range mod. You can also chose to stay close instead of trying to build distance. Can you stay enough on the tail of the typical griefer ships (using FA off naturally) to avoid forward fire?

I'm not sure what you mean by turning into an omelette - is it running too hot? I'm not sure how to check this on coriolis.

 

[Northpin]

If you think hitscan is the main problem, you could engineer for more thermal resist. You can also chose to stay close instead of trying to build distance. Can you stay enough on the tail of the typical griefer ships (using FA off naturally) to avoid forward fire?

I'm not sure what you mean by turning into an omelette - is it running too hot? I'm not sure how to check this on coriolis.

Depends on the skill of involved pilots. That's why i said it may work against noobs.
I cant make a sidey that can still reach 745m/s and have more than 730mj shields, resists included.
That's 10 shots from a typical dual long range medium rail setup.

I've seen videos with an Eagle annoying a Vette or a Viper destroying another Vette, but in the first scenario the Vette was not outfitted to the task and in the second case the Vette pilot was a combat noob

Regarding the omelette, perf thrusters are eating a lot of power. If that power comes from a PP with really bad efficiency, you will fry the ship.
I tried with a hauler, it was a no-no. The sidey fared better, but only using a low emissions 2A PP

 

[Old Duck]

Do you have enough agility to avoid collisions in the sidewinder maybe?

The last time I did this (on my PS4 account where I have the necessary Engineers unlocked), seekers with drag munitions were great. Griefers couldn't fire on me within the range of the station, and try as they might, they could not ram thanks to my extreme maneuverability and nicely-timed boost-killing missiles.

Another weapon I've used to annoy is phased sequence burst lasers. You'll never kill a typical griefer ship with these, but it doesn't take too much hull damage to a Cutter to cost the griefer more in repairs than my own rebuy in a Sidewinder (though the fines for shooting in a no-fire zone do add up).

Now if you're going against shieldless ships, then scrambled spectrum (assuming it still works) can be an amazing game-changer. I cost a fellow his Corvette once because I got lucky and knocked his FSD offline right when the ATR showed up. Perfect!!!

 

[Old Duck]

Oh, and I forgot another favorite - FORCE SHELL

 

[A C Ender]

Depends on the skill of involved pilots. That's why i said it may work against noobs.
I cant make a sidey that can still reach 745m/s and have more than 730mj shields, resists included.
That's 10 shots from a typical dual long range medium rail setup.

I've seen videos with an Eagle annoying a Vette or a Viper destroying another Vette, but in the first scenario the Vette was not outfitted to the task and in the second case the Vette pilot was a combat noob

Regarding the omelette, perf thrusters are eating a lot of power. If that power comes from a PP with really bad efficiency, you will fry the ship.
I tried with a hauler, it was a no-no. The sidey fared better, but only using a low emissions 2A PP

Well, if you want a strong enough shield and still 745 boost you can get that. Didn't manage to get with low emission (but you might if you're a bit more clever with modules) but got a 2A armoured thermal spread.

Spoiler: Strong shields

Coriolis EDCD Edition

A ship builder, outfitting and comparison tool for Elite Dangerous

coriolis.io

 

[Just Paul]

I used this, Cheeto Dorito, then I started to play in open, used it in the II and running around Shinrarta. Always got away, I lost the shields only twice.
Now she's re-engineered for the Sidiesquad in Colonia and looks like this, ARXinator.

 

[A C Ender]

I used this, Cheeto Dorito, then I started to play in open, used it in the II and running around Shinrarta. Always got away, I lost the shields only twice.
Now she's re-engineered for the Sidiesquad in Colonia and looks like this, ARXinator.

What's the Sidiesquad? I'd like to hear your thoughts behind the two different ones, like why the shield less, why the weapon choice?

 

[Just Paul]

What's the Sidiesquad? I'd like to hear your thoughts behind the two different ones, like why the shield less, why the weapon choice?

The first one was mainly to get my feet wet in open with a good chance to escape after an interdiction. With 3 pips to sys I have 300MJ raw shield and with some FA off boosting and flipping around she is hard to hit until the FSD is charged up. I never lost her and I was flying around during the 2nd II and in Shinrarta a lot with her. The force cannons were more for fun, never intended to use them against a CMDR. It was more to play around with some NPC small ships.
The 2nd one is for having fun with squadron mates. We make a wing of sidewinders (sidiesquad) to "terrorize" the neighborhood, at least that's the plan. We just tried once but it failed do to some interdiction bug, still had a lot of fun trying to kill the elite NPC Conda following our initial targeted CMDR. With no shields on ARXinator I don't have to worry about pips in sys and can put them all into eng and wep. The different weapons are for actually trying to engage with other CMDRs. The rail with feedback is for mainly canceling SCB and the beam to do shield damage and cooling the ship. I would use a cryptoscrampler if I had access to it for more shield damage. It was build to compliment the sidewinders of my squadron mates, it's just for having a lot of fun and doing something different. If I die or win I get some ARX anyways.

 

[Ashnak]

If you really want to annoy the PvP crowd, you'll have to git gud yourself - no other way. Otherwise, with any of the usually possible laodouts in a small ship, they can just keep on sitting there, soaking up the damage and wait for you to either run out of ammo or blow yourself up from either frustration or overheating.
Interdicting them somewhat works - but the same tactics (drop, run and wake) that you use against gankers also work the other way round, and chain interdictions as harrasment aren't allowed just because you have good intentions.

So, git gud. One of the most annoying weapoons effects is also available, in copious amounts, for small and medium hadpoints: Reverb Cascade Mine Launchers. There are also a few other very annoying special effects for mines. The downside is that mines require real skill to be used as offensive weapons in PvP - I can't do it, but look for videos about courier mine launchers.

Oh, and my Sidewinders: Lady In Black for military actions and Nowhere Fast for racing. Although the Lady is now semi-retired in favour of an unarmed Viper, Jumpin Jack Flash, that is engineered for espionage missions. The guns on the Lady simply won't cut it.

Someone was inquiring about shieldless builds. Others may have other reasons, mine are simple. Compared to real combat builds, the shields on a small ship won't withstand a single shot from a real combat build, but they need space and power - both things I can better use for other things. The small ships rely on speed and stealth, and once I trigger silent running, the shields are gone anyways. So why should I lug them around as ballast? Without shields, I can build a cool ship, even with dirty drag drives. If you look at that Viper, it will take a lot of hits to dent that hull - and a maxed out hull tank viper can bring over 5,000 HPs for the hull.

 

[A C Ender]

If you really want to annoy the PvP crowd, you'll have to git gud yourself - no other way. Otherwise, with any of the usually possible laodouts in a small ship, they can just keep on sitting there, soaking up the damage and wait for you to either run out of ammo or blow yourself up from either frustration or overheating.
Interdicting them somewhat works - but the same tactics (drop, run and wake) that you use against gankers also work the other way round, and chain interdictions as harrasment aren't allowed just because you have good intentions.

So, git gud. One of the most annoying weapoons effects is also available, in copious amounts, for small and medium hadpoints: Reverb Cascade Mine Launchers. There are also a few other very annoying special effects for mines. The downside is that mines require real skill to be used as offensive weapons in PvP - I can't do it, but look for videos about courier mine launchers.

Oh, and my Sidewinders: Lady In Black for military actions and Nowhere Fast for racing. Although the Lady is now semi-retired in favour of an unarmed Viper, Jumpin Jack Flash, that is engineered for espionage missions. The guns on the Lady simply won't cut it.

Someone was inquiring about shieldless builds. Others may have other reasons, mine are simple. Compared to real combat builds, the shields on a small ship won't withstand a single shot from a real combat build, but they need space and power - both things I can better use for other things. The small ships rely on speed and stealth, and once I trigger silent running, the shields are gone anyways. So why should I lug them around as ballast? Without shields, I can build a cool ship, even with dirty drag drives. If you look at that Viper, it will take a lot of hits to dent that hull - and a maxed out hull tank viper can bring over 5,000 HPs for the hull.

How did you get an extra 2% multiplier on the EPT? I can only get to 513 m/s and you get to 516.

 

[Ashnak]

How did you get an extra 2% multiplier on the EPT? I can only get to 513 m/s and you get to 516.

Probably by using an older version of Coriolis
Just redid it, and I also end up at 513 m/s.
I'll check in-game next time I'm around what I actualy got.

 

[MaxG10]

This is fun to watch

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WQ-vaXbmLE