Piracy: For the verbal bandits

[Samu]

Its easy to see that many of us are coming straight from New Eden: as all of us know there is no quitting EVE Online, but maybe we can replace it.

One of the main things that attracted me to EVE (or any MMO) was the ability to legally (or illegally) take part in different kinds of piracy. Now so far its very obvious that stealing someone's cargo is all well and fine, almost welcomed; but my question:

What are the limits of scamming?

Example: If I tell someone to drop their cargo, or i'll destroy their ship. Once they drop their cargo, can I still blow them up?
Can I tell someone an item's worth is 100x what it actually is?
Can I ask to borrow an item, and not give it back?

I know not all of these can really apply to the game just yet, but I assume they will more and more with each update.

I'm still quite new when it comes to the Frontier forum, so forgive me if I'm asking about incredibly easily accessed information.

Thanks,
Samu

 

[Katkon]

You won't like the answers, Samu. Elite is not EVE or anything like it. In fact, Frontier have taken very active steps to avoid it becoming anything like EVE.

While you could still destroy someone after they drop their cargo, most players won't drop cargo for you. And if had great success with this mechanic you'd simply be driving people into solo mode to avoid you. Moreover, with just 32 or so people in an instance (max) and 400 billion systems, you aren't going to come across a lot of people to con.

Oh, and players don't control market prices. That's determined by supply/demand - you can buy and resell products at predefined priced. And if you pick up a "borrowed" good it will be marked as stolen, and you risk a scan/fine/destruction by the authorities. Scamming doesn't really work in Elite, and the tactics would be shunned by most players and Frontier.

If you're looking for EVE-like gameplay you've come to the wrong place, thankfully (from my perspective).

 

[Sandmann]

It's completely up to you... "Blaze your own trail" and do whatever you like, but wear the consequences. For example, a certain group of pirates have spent months trying to convince traders to not play in solo mode, and that simply dropping a few cargo containers will buy them immunity. Some have even proposed escorting their prey to their destination if they "pay the toll". Now, there's nothing at all to stop you blasting trusting haulers that have dutifully dropped cargo for you, but there ARE consequences for doing so. You will destroy any little trust the " honest pirates" have gained, which will drive more traders (who were already suspicious of "pirate morality") into solo thus making PvP even more rare, and you will earn the ire of other pirates who make take it upon themselves to punish you for undoing their efforts. Plus of course there's the game's built in bounty system.

As for scamming, I don't think there's any in game system to prevent it, but I think your oppourtunities will be very limited.

 

[Samu]

Thanks for the replies, I've definitely learned from them.

Scamming is really what my money-raising system has always been based on because I find myself to be a social player, but I'm happy for that to change as long as there are alternatives available.

We'll see what kind of direction the game allows me to go with this then.

 

[barcode]

I don't think there's anything in the rules to stop you from attempting to scam people, but I'm not sure the game mechanics would allow for much.

 

[saviornt]

You can't really scam people, since there is currently no mechanism for player trading / money exchange. It could change in the future though, but until it does.. well.. yea.

 

[Araviel]

Elite is not EVE or anything like it.

If you're looking for EVE-like gameplay you've come to the wrong place, .

still there is a crap ton of us old eve players here. i believe that the majority of the new eden pilots always wished that eve was something else than what it is.

 

[Rockie]

still there is a crap ton of us old eve players here. i believe that the majority of the new eden pilots always wished that eve was something else than what it is.

For the longest time Eve was the only mmo space sim around, or at least the only really popular one, so people kept wanting to make it something it's not. Sometimes I sense the same sort of feeling here on these forums. Eve is what it is, and ED is something completely different from that. The point should not be to make ED into a replacement for Eve, but to make it into it's own unique experience.

 

[Toxic_Waster]

Just killed about 20 players tonight. I'd like to see if the mantra "you'll drive them all to solo" is really working. Yet these haulers keep coming back to open. Such stubbornness, almost admirable.

 

[Sandmann]

Just killed about 20 players tonight.

Wow, hero.

Not.

 

[Red Fox Four]

still there is a crap ton of us old eve players here. i believe that the majority of the new eden pilots always wished that eve was something else than what it is.

I've often said that Elite is everything I wished EVE was.

Two quick examples:

Flying
EVE Online = click in space and pretend to fly
Elite = Sit in a cockpit, with a stick and actually fly

Piracy
EVE Online = killing players gets you stuff to loot
Elite = killing players gets you nothing but a bounty on your own head

 

[Robert Maynard]

Just killed about 20 players tonight. I'd like to see if the mantra "you'll drive them all to solo" is really working. Yet these haulers keep coming back to open. Such stubbornness, almost admirable.

.... or they care little for their progress as they expect a wipe on the 16th?

.... or they have become sufficiently affluent by trading in their <insert large capacity ship here> and have bought a hauler to have a little inconsequential fun?

 

[Anopheles]

Blaze your own trail, so long as you try to recreate Space Sweden.

 

[Roybe]

.... or they care little for their progress as they expect a wipe on the 16th?

.... or they have become sufficiently affluent by trading in their <insert large capacity ship here> and have bought a hauler to have a little inconsequential fun?

or they are proud of their accomplishment and have a calling card to all bounty hunters..who might find a 300k credit bounty highly interesting and entertaining. Around here, IF I was to be a bounty hunter I would set up a thread so people could PM me with last known locations of certain scoundrels...to be sure the blackhearts could be dealt with properly. Just sayin'.

 

[barcode]

Just killed about 20 players tonight. I'd like to see if the mantra "you'll drive them all to solo" is really working. Yet these haulers keep coming back to open. Such stubbornness, almost admirable.

Maybe they enjoy the excitement in taking the risk?

I used to go around interdicting players just for fun, until some guy in a heavily upgraded Asp came along and, uh, showed me the error of my ways so to speak.

 

[Ytheleus]

My belief is that, medium term, open players generally won't be driven to solo by player pirates. I won't be anyway, but given time to develop they will either avoid known and obviously insecure pirate haunts, or tool up for them better and develop better avoidance tactics. If not, they deserve what their choices dictate.

A maxed out Cobra is a different kind of victim from a mildly upgraded hauler, for instance. Not to diss the fine hauler, I had one and loved it, but it's a matter of time before new players will graduate to something with more capacity for withstanding and avoiding violent pewpew long enough to escape with the cargo intact.

When you add in bounty hunting, a pirate's life will not always be as easy as waiting for a hauler full of palladium to bumble past.

 

[Samu]

Quoting myself from the original post:

I know not all of these can really apply to the game just yet, but I assume they will more and more with each update.

What would you all speculate further updates would bring to the table involving this? Do we expect trading to be added at some point? Interdiction-nullifiers of some sort?

 

[Flying Penguin]

Quoting myself from the original post:


What would you all speculate further updates would bring to the table involving this? Do we expect trading to be added at some point? Interdiction-nullifiers of some sort?

What I would possibly expect to see that might help scammers:
-Passing cargo between players
-Shared missions
-Capital ship wide area FS Interdictors (akin to Interdictor Cruisers in Star Wars, I assume this is what you mean by interdiction nullifiers)

What I wouldn't expect to see
-Passing money between players
-"Borrowing" ships
-Large scale financial market-esque tools (i.e. no Bernie Maddoff scams)
-Player ship wide area FS Interdictors (If you are fast enough to keep up, you can mass lock similar sized vessels or smaller)

What I would expect to see that might make scammers life more difficult
-Trade history (Can't tell someone that something is worth 1000x actual value if they can check the prices against their last station visit)


In summary, I very much doubt that ED will ever support scamming to the level that EO does. As others mentioned, they have taken active steps to NOT enable scamming. Expect that every tool in the scammer's arsenal will have an in-game counter.

 

[Swan]

I look forward to there being a pirate war; 'honest' pirates vs the more ruthless ones.

 

[Marquiz]

I've often said that Elite is everything I wished EVE was.

Two quick examples:

Flying
EVE Online = click in space and pretend to fly
Elite = Sit in a cockpit, with a stick and actually fly

Piracy
EVE Online = killing players gets you stuff to loot
Elite = killing players gets you nothing but a bounty on your own head

I complety agree. But if some one wanna do piracy (for fun, trill of doing bad things) this should be allowed. But there will hunt dogs after you. For someone this might be good fun too. In this way we have more versailty in gameplay which pushes me to play more.

I'd like to see if the mantra "you'll drive them all to solo" is really working.

yep, this cant work really. Most players go open mode, becasue people wants social interaction which more interesting in long way. Than do repetive things, IMO. I think most of them...