Piracy Sugestions - To balance the new C&P ( realistic aproach!!!)

Ok Ok so I hear FDev are looking for making piracy better. and i have some simple suggestions that would make piracy more effective, I WILL KEEP THE SUGGESTIONS REALISTIC. So you wont see no ground breaking new ideas here. Just some good ideas that will enchance piracy (and some other areas of the game together)

If you have Unrealistic Ideas Please make another thread this one is just for things that can be done if they have time over the C&P. As much id like to see huge pirate implementations in game i don't believe those can be done so fast.




Ok so Lets start by talking Hatch breaker limpet.

The actual Function of the hatch Breaker is bad for TIME and cargo collection, this means that for a pirate trying to take cargo from a fleeing victim it's a bad tool.
Actually most PvP pirates don't even use it, even after the hatch-breaker go trough shields thing.
The biggest problem over here is the fact that it drops cargo one by one, making it a pain in the asp to collect, and the fact that people will be running spinning and evading make it even harder.

So my suggestion:

-Make hatch break an "special effect" like the engineered stuff, so we can see the effect taking place and the cool down (optional, and unrealistic)

-Make that cargo drop by Hatch breaker to be like cargo drop by dropping cargo , In group of 4s.

-Reduce Hatch breaking time to 2/3 of the today's time , making it possible to target, attach and hatch break a ship that submitted to the interdiction. This should be enough to a slow ship be hatch breaked and a fast one don't.

-Raise the cargo drop by at least 1.5x ( if there will be no change in the trade prices this will actually help taking more cargo!)

-Introduce a Cool-down (see 1) to counter the ideas 2,3,4. Making it good but not too much.




On the second tool comes the loved Collector Limpet.

This one is kind of a life savior. I don't think any pirate would be what it is today if they didn't exist, imagine collecting 100 Cargo by driving to each cargo... it would take ages. But, The goodness in this tool for miners and scavengers, comes with a HUGE downside for a pirate, Movement.
Moving anywhere between 8M/s is tolerable to the collectors, more than that means Boom cargo, Trying to move large distances with collectors trying to collect another stuff? Boom Collector. Need to keep fighting while collector collect? Boom Cargo.

So Onto Suggestions:

- Limpets would be able to safely drop cargo into the hatch at the speed cargo can be scooped, 40 m/s.

- Moving faster than 40 M/s will make collectors stay at 500 meters of your ship waiting for a proper time to "dock"

- Collectors would check if the cargo is outside his range at least every second. so it would give up if the cargo is off limits , not wasting limpets.

- Slight increase in limpet speed would be appreciated. (optional)




Manifest Scanner.

Not much to be said about it. It works, can be better yes... So i wont talk to much here.

Suggestions:

- Increase the manifest time... Today's i think is 30 secs or so... it's clearly not good enough anymore.

- A galactic average would be interesting to see on the tab, for us and for the trader, seeing if something is pricey might make people demand less for weaker ships.




Wake scanner

The wake scanner is at this point one of the most useless thing for PvP piracy at this point. For PvE it works just fine.

Suggestions:

-make it faster, at least 50% faster.

-(this one might be unrealistic but i will put here anyway) If it's a player it must hold the instance alive for the other player arrive. even if the player is already gone. or at least give the player another high wake to scan so he can actually follow the traces of X CMDR.
 
Personally I think you need your own limpets, or perhaps better put an extension to hatch breakers.

The initial should break the hatch, the rest should pull cargo out and swarm away from the fight area but all together with a lot longer delay on cargo pod breakdown, say 10-20 times or the standard life of a limpet. So after the fight you can collect or a friend in a collector ship can gather to one side while clean. It might take more programming for the devs, but looking at limpets generally there is no reason why a short range collector couldn't be programmed to grab and move to a safe area for later collection and maintain stability of the cargo pod while doing so.
 
Ok Ok so I hear FDev are looking for making piracy better. and i have some simple suggestions that would make piracy more effective, I WILL KEEP THE SUGGESTIONS REALISTIC. So you wont see no ground breaking new ideas here. Just some good ideas that will enchance piracy (and some other areas of the game together)

If you have Unrealistic Ideas Please make another thread this one is just for things that can be done if they have time over the C&P. As much id like to see huge pirate implementations in game i don't believe those can be done so fast.




Ok so Lets start by talking Hatch breaker limpet.

The actual Function of the hatch Breaker is bad for TIME and cargo collection, this means that for a pirate trying to take cargo from a fleeing victim it's a bad tool.
Actually most PvP pirates don't even use it, even after the hatch-breaker go trough shields thing.
The biggest problem over here is the fact that it drops cargo one by one, making it a pain in the asp to collect, and the fact that people will be running spinning and evading make it even harder.

So my suggestion:

-Make hatch break an "special effect" like the engineered stuff, so we can see the effect taking place and the cool down (optional, and unrealistic)

-Make that cargo drop by Hatch breaker to be like cargo drop by dropping cargo , In group of 4s.

-Reduce Hatch breaking time to 2/3 of the today's time , making it possible to target, attach and hatch break a ship that submitted to the interdiction. This should be enough to a slow ship be hatch breaked and a fast one don't.

-Raise the cargo drop by at least 1.5x ( if there will be no change in the trade prices this will actually help taking more cargo!)

-Introduce a Cool-down (see 1) to counter the ideas 2,3,4. Making it good but not too much.




On the second tool comes the loved Collector Limpet.

This one is kind of a life savior. I don't think any pirate would be what it is today if they didn't exist, imagine collecting 100 Cargo by driving to each cargo... it would take ages. But, The goodness in this tool for miners and scavengers, comes with a HUGE downside for a pirate, Movement.
Moving anywhere between 8M/s is tolerable to the collectors, more than that means Boom cargo, Trying to move large distances with collectors trying to collect another stuff? Boom Collector. Need to keep fighting while collector collect? Boom Cargo.

So Onto Suggestions:

- Limpets would be able to safely drop cargo into the hatch at the speed cargo can be scooped, 40 m/s.

- Moving faster than 40 M/s will make collectors stay at 500 meters of your ship waiting for a proper time to "dock"

- Collectors would check if the cargo is outside his range at least every second. so it would give up if the cargo is off limits , not wasting limpets.

- Slight increase in limpet speed would be appreciated. (optional)




Manifest Scanner.

Not much to be said about it. It works, can be better yes... So i wont talk to much here.

Suggestions:

- Increase the manifest time... Today's i think is 30 secs or so... it's clearly not good enough anymore.

- A galactic average would be interesting to see on the tab, for us and for the trader, seeing if something is pricey might make people demand less for weaker ships.




Wake scanner

The wake scanner is at this point one of the most useless thing for PvP piracy at this point. For PvE it works just fine.

Suggestions:

-make it faster, at least 50% faster.

-(this one might be unrealistic but i will put here anyway) If it's a player it must hold the instance alive for the other player arrive. even if the player is already gone. or at least give the player another high wake to scan so he can actually follow the traces of X CMDR.

I have said elsewhere. Manifest Scanners should be useable-albeit in a more limited fashion-whilst in Super-Cruise. Maybe give you a list of the kinds of Cargo and/or Passengers a ship is currently carrying.....if not the details of how much the cargo or passengers might be worth (& yes, I am hinting at a desire for a potential means of selling passengers via the black market-as slaves if they're bulk passengers, or for a ransom if they're VIP's).
 
I have said elsewhere. Manifest Scanners should be useable-albeit in a more limited fashion-whilst in Super-Cruise. Maybe give you a list of the kinds of Cargo and/or Passengers a ship is currently carrying.....if not the details of how much the cargo or passengers might be worth (& yes, I am hinting at a desire for a potential means of selling passengers via the black market-as slaves if they're bulk passengers, or for a ransom if they're VIP's).

Interesting maybe ,Manifest can be seen from Super-cruise but only would show the class of the product.

Eg.
Instead of 100 tons of low temp diamonds. 100 Tons of Minerals.
Instead of 40 tons of Gold and 30 of Silver , 40 tons of metals and 30 Tons of metals. (imagine the computer saying for you we have scanned 40 Tons of one metal and 30 Tons of another but we cant be sure of which metals they are!)

Also for passengers they would only be called passengers. only in normal cruise you would be able to distinc tourist workers VIP and etc..



On the passengers... Id love to see a module like high-jack module limpet :D that would forcefully change passengers into slaves/hostage when you hit it on the ship :D

but I'm getting over myself here... this is very hard to code....
 
I like your suggestions.

In the spirit of simple improvements I would add : Fix vanishing cargo bug.

What could also be useful would be to link the manifest scanner to the Hatchbreakers. So if you get a successful scan (My manifest scanner is Engineered for speed at the minute and is very useful) you can somehow choose which cargo gets dropped but maybe in single tons. Sort of like how the collector Limpets can be targeted onto individual containers.

This would be very useful for completing Piracy missions where you have to empty 60 tons of Biowaste to get to 12 tons of clothing or somesuch.
 
Ok Ok so I hear FDev are looking for making piracy better. and i have some simple suggestions that would make piracy more effective, I WILL KEEP THE SUGGESTIONS REALISTIC. So you wont see no ground breaking new ideas here. Just some good ideas that will enchance piracy (and some other areas of the game together)

If you have Unrealistic Ideas Please make another thread this one is just for things that can be done if they have time over the C&P. As much id like to see huge pirate implementations in game i don't believe those can be done so fast.




Ok so Lets start by talking Hatch breaker limpet.

The actual Function of the hatch Breaker is bad for TIME and cargo collection, this means that for a pirate trying to take cargo from a fleeing victim it's a bad tool.
Actually most PvP pirates don't even use it, even after the hatch-breaker go trough shields thing.
The biggest problem over here is the fact that it drops cargo one by one, making it a pain in the asp to collect, and the fact that people will be running spinning and evading make it even harder.

So my suggestion:

-Make hatch break an "special effect" like the engineered stuff, so we can see the effect taking place and the cool down (optional, and unrealistic)

-Make that cargo drop by Hatch breaker to be like cargo drop by dropping cargo , In group of 4s.

-Reduce Hatch breaking time to 2/3 of the today's time , making it possible to target, attach and hatch break a ship that submitted to the interdiction. This should be enough to a slow ship be hatch breaked and a fast one don't.

-Raise the cargo drop by at least 1.5x ( if there will be no change in the trade prices this will actually help taking more cargo!)

-Introduce a Cool-down (see 1) to counter the ideas 2,3,4. Making it good but not too much.




On the second tool comes the loved Collector Limpet.

This one is kind of a life savior. I don't think any pirate would be what it is today if they didn't exist, imagine collecting 100 Cargo by driving to each cargo... it would take ages. But, The goodness in this tool for miners and scavengers, comes with a HUGE downside for a pirate, Movement.
Moving anywhere between 8M/s is tolerable to the collectors, more than that means Boom cargo, Trying to move large distances with collectors trying to collect another stuff? Boom Collector. Need to keep fighting while collector collect? Boom Cargo.

So Onto Suggestions:

- Limpets would be able to safely drop cargo into the hatch at the speed cargo can be scooped, 40 m/s.

- Moving faster than 40 M/s will make collectors stay at 500 meters of your ship waiting for a proper time to "dock"

- Collectors would check if the cargo is outside his range at least every second. so it would give up if the cargo is off limits , not wasting limpets.

- Slight increase in limpet speed would be appreciated. (optional)




Manifest Scanner.

Not much to be said about it. It works, can be better yes... So i wont talk to much here.

Suggestions:

- Increase the manifest time... Today's i think is 30 secs or so... it's clearly not good enough anymore.

- A galactic average would be interesting to see on the tab, for us and for the trader, seeing if something is pricey might make people demand less for weaker ships.




Wake scanner

The wake scanner is at this point one of the most useless thing for PvP piracy at this point. For PvE it works just fine.

Suggestions:

-make it faster, at least 50% faster.

-(this one might be unrealistic but i will put here anyway) If it's a player it must hold the instance alive for the other player arrive. even if the player is already gone. or at least give the player another high wake to scan so he can actually follow the traces of X CMDR.

Other than outright changes to these items I think if you added these to the engineered list you could solve this problem. However I've always wondered why, a normal citizen of the Galaxy would need some of these items. And if they're not then they should only be available in Anarchy systems.

But you do bring up good and valid points.

Chief
 
I like your suggestions.

In the spirit of simple improvements I would add : Fix vanishing cargo bug.

What could also be useful would be to link the manifest scanner to the Hatchbreakers. So if you get a successful scan (My manifest scanner is Engineered for speed at the minute and is very useful) you can somehow choose which cargo gets dropped but maybe in single tons. Sort of like how the collector Limpets can be targeted onto individual containers.

This would be very useful for completing Piracy missions where you have to empty 60 tons of Biowaste to get to 12 tons of clothing or somesuch.

Vanishing cargo is a pain in the asp really, but i think these changes will help a lot... since collecting will be faster.
 
Other than outright changes to these items I think if you added these to the engineered list you could solve this problem. However I've always wondered why, a normal citizen of the Galaxy would need some of these items. And if they're not then they should only be available in Anarchy systems.

But you do bring up good and valid points.

Chief

Not everything can be locked to engineering, for example the speed the collector can drop into is very critical to anyone operating it... and i think it's a major oversight.

For the question about Tools. We are not normal citzens. normal citzens cant have ships that easy... but for the questions of why we can have hatch breakers on normal places... well the tool itself is not bad. it can be used to free slaves and hostages as much as cargo... so they are not necessary evil ;)
 
... for the questions of why we can have hatch breakers on normal places... well the tool itself is not bad. it can be used to free slaves and hostages as much as cargo... so they are not necessary evil

One thing I would really like to see is the ability to declare 'liberated' contraband (slaves, guns, narcotics, etc...) before docking. Any declared contraband cannot be sold on the market/black market, and must be turned in to the authorities. That way you could go and steal a smuggler's cargo, then turn it into the system authorities (similar to salvage) for a trade dividend (or something). Would be an interesting way to create a sort of 'legal piracy'. :)
 
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One thing I would really like to see is the ability to declare 'liberated' contraband (slaves, guns, narcotics, etc...) before docking. Any declared contraband cannot be sold on the market/black market, and must be turned in to the authorities. That way you could go and steal a smuggler's cargo, then turn it into the system authorities (similar to salvage) for a trade dividend (or something). Would be an interesting way to create a sort of 'legal piracy'. :)


Well i think they could add a menu like the salvage one...or even expand it even further... from being legal or NOT... i think that's complex because this effectively "wash" the cargo... and i don't think it's a wise idea... Stolen cargo is stolen. The best method for doing this would be a permit system... issued by one system like "anti slave permit" maybe you can get one by doing some hostage missions... or things like that... this would be very interesting..
 
Hatch breakers: Agree with OP 100%

Collector limpets: I would love to be able to target a friendly ship, and have the collector go into 'slow mode' but collecting nearby cargo and delivering it to the targetted ship. This would enable pirate (and mining) teamwork by having a combat ship and a 'loot scow' work together - the combat ship pursues the target, cracks the hatch and distracts escorts/police, while the 'loot scow' receives the goods. It rewards teamwork by allowing both partners to be more effective than they would be alone, eg a T6 which cannot mount a huge limpet controller itself can be as effective at collecting, when assisted, as a pirate Anaconda mounting class 7 controller.

Cargo scanners: I agree with Marc_Hicks' suggestion that they should give some hint in supercruise. Ideally have a multipurpose Wave Scanner that can resolve something of a ships' cargo, wrecks, rocks and other stuff in SC. Call cargo scanning 'frame shift positronic aberration', and make it resolve faster at close range/when a target is centred. Engineers could sell a cargo bay mod which damps positronic leakage.

Wake scanners: I would like better NPC behaviour around high waking, so that the NPC's fuel is modelled and at some point even a big ship is forced to scoop or find a port. This would make multi-jump pursuit more interesting. I would also like NPCs 'mission hunters' to be able to follow my long-leggest Asp and Anaconda over a 50+ LY jump.

Transponder Limpet: This would place a tracker on a target that would persist for a specified number of in-game minutes, allowing you to see them on the galaxy map, and tells you when they have landed at a planet, docked or undocked. This enables you to track and intercept a faster ship when they stop to refuel or load cargo.

And while we're on the silly ideas, how about an FSD Drain Ray? By using this beam laser, a smaller ship would be able partially mass lock a larger ship, by slowing its FSD charge rate. I haven't thought this one through fully though, it has griefy potential.

EDIT: forgot to add: pilotable limpets. The code is there for SLFs. I love the idea of trying to fly manually a limpet at breakneck speed towards a hatch while under heavy Point Defense fire.*

* DISCLAIMER: I liked this idea so much I wrote my own game about it. But I'd still like it in ED.
 
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