Pirate Dichotomy and how to talk about them

Olivia Vespera

Olivia Vespera
Problem:
I think the term, "pirate" have been applied uniformly and incorrectly to all players who operate "outside" the law. We don't have the vocabulary to talk about outlaws beyond calling all of them colloquially, "pirates" or "gankers", interchangeably. We need some clarity of our terms.

Scope:
What this suggestion isn't about:

  • This suggestion does not mean to discuss whether pirating(marauding, etc) is a lesser or greater crime. It makes no judgment on that.
  • This suggestion does not take into account how to properly classify an outlaw if they fit all multiple categories at once.
  • This suggestion makes no mention of pve outlaws that do smuggling and salavaging
  • This suggestion does not look to enforce outlaws to adopt particular labels. Only that when others discussing their actions, they be understood through the lens of what they've done and which category they fit.
  • This suggestion does not cover the minute differences between every outlaw factions and individuals but does so with only the broad strokes that currently have only been covered under one so far.
  • This suggestion will not cover how we'll teach others this vocab. I think we can just link introduce this to them. It doesn't really need to be asked.

What this suggestion is about:

  • This suggestion does introduce new nomenclature to describe outlaws that follow certain trends
  • This suggestion provides an explanation for each term suggested
  • this suggestion provides notes and rationale for why we could use terms like this
Solution:
I suggest instead 4 types of outlaws:

  • Pirate - self-interested group who steal cargo
  • Marauder - self-interested group who kill pilots
  • Privateer - hired for-profit group who steal cargo
  • Assassin - hired for-profit group who kill pilots
Each type can be split into two subtypes:

  • Freelancers - work alone and can vary in quality and reliability
  • Organised - establish and have less volatile levels of quality and reliability
Explanation:
players or player groups that belong in two or more categories may simply be called Outlaws, for freelancers, or Mafia, for organised groups
outlaws who are hired for-profit are known by the supertype Mercenaries
outlaws who are self-interested are by the supertype Crooks (requesting better title or even if it's even required)

Rationale:
I'm suggesting these terms so that we have a vocabulary to talk about different types of outlaws and can move any talk regarding them forward.
We can start pinpointing what type of outlaw we have problems with and the problems associated with that particular type. we can move forward in ways whence before we would be gridlocked by miscommunication over the singular we currently use. There are different types of outlaws
It also adds roleplay flavour when talking about various outlaw or mercenary factions like the CODE, Smiling Dog Crew, or Diamond Frogs

Let me know what you think. :)

Edit Log - some of the comments may not make sense without referral to this.
Edit: i've changed a few terms around, there are now 4 instead of 3 types. And you only need to know 4 types with a modifier for whether they're freelancers or organised.
Edit 2:I've added an extra sentence to rationale to expand on how it can help move discussions about outlaws forward when prior it only mentioned the reason.
Edit 3: added a new item to scope regards how to disseminate this to others, especially new players.
Edit 4: mercenary type changed to assassin, supertypes, Mercenaries and Crooks added
Edit 5:Added experimental dichotomy to thread. May remove if it muddles things up

Experimental dichotomy - a more complex idea that was spinning in my head. I think it's too complex. i alla fall, the one above is the one i'm suggesting.
  • Outlaw - Autonomous and self-interested
    • Pirate - steals cargo
      • Gentlemen - won't kill you if you don't comply
      • Cutthroat - will kill you if you don't comply
    • Marauder - kills pilots
      • Gladiator - only fights worthy opponents
      • Reaver - fights any opponent
      • Opportunist - only targets weaker opponents

  • Mercenary - hired and for-profit
    • Privateer - steals cargo
      • Gentlemen - won't kill you if you don't comply
      • Cutthroat - will kill you if you don't comply
    • Professional - kill pilots
      • Bounty Hunter - hired to take out one specific person
        • Assassin - does not care if the player is wanted or not
      • Terrorist - hired to kill indiscriminately in one abstract region
Each type can be further divided into two subtypes:

  • Freelancers - work alone and can vary in quality and reliability
  • Organised - establish and have less volatile levels of quality and reliability
You can be a Freelance Gentlemen Privateer or a Organised guild of Professional Assassins
 
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Caramel Clown

Caramel Clown
I don't like to categorize something I'm not fond of. In my mind pirate is a pirate, and is flagged as target no matter what he pretends to be.
 
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Olivia Vespera

Olivia Vespera
Bran Tse Mallory said:
Lets make it even simpler:

There are thieves and murderer's.
Click to expand...

but there's a difference between whether they're working in a group or a lone ranger. Whether they're hired by someone or whether they're working in their own self-interest. I for instance like hiring mercenaries to protect myself against bandits and marauders as PMC are a little too pricey for freelance trading.
I try to have an amicable relationship with pirates and bandits alike but would prefer to deal with an organised outfit of pirates over bandits for quality assurance across the board.
 
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Thetele

T
Wanted player is wanted. If you see wanted combat ship in same instance or usually even combat ship, take actions and prepare to prevent them to get behind you.
 

Arindor

Arindor
Pirating my friend, is pirating. Some may murder and steal, some may just steal, but it's still piracy with no little grey areas to sweeten the experience. :)
 

Lateralus

Lateralus
How about a ranking system for Piracy/Smuggling/Assassinations, in which the highest rank displays under your 'Wanted' tag? Like this;

attachment.php


Highest rank displayed here:
attachment.php


This would give different criminal types distinction and give them a progression/reward system at the same time.

There's more info on these ideas in this thread; https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=163170

Cheers
 

Marra Morgan

Marra Morgan
I simply describe myself as an "Outlaw".
I pirate, smuggle, assassinate, do heist jobs, kill police, support unfettered factions in wars and generally make a total nuisance of myself.
I don't care much for splitting hairs over what label I get, as long as it's not personal - I do try to be a nice person in real life :)
 

Olivia Vespera

Olivia Vespera
Arindor said:
Pirating my friend, is pirating. Some may murder and steal, some may just steal, but it's still piracy with no little grey areas to sweeten the experience. :)
Click to expand...
this dichotomy makes no argument for the legality of pirating or Privateering(changed the term), one way or the other. it is not a part of its scope.
 
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piy

piy
With lots of people who play the game enjoying shooting there guns. I think this is a good idia.

I would say I'm a bandit. Mostly to NPC. It's rubbish credits but fun to do. If I try it on a player and thay run...I just take there shealds out then let them go hoping I've got there adrenalin up.

I'd like very much to be a merc for other players in any aspect apart from mindless killing but with no In game way of advertising my services or way to guarantee payment, that's just not going to happen.
My game time is precious and I don't want to spend time looking at the forums. I do that while skivein off work...like now :p
 
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CMDR Argent Steel

CMDR Argent Steel
Marra said:
I simply describe myself as an "Outlaw".
I pirate, smuggle, assassinate, do heist jobs, kill police, support unfettered factions in wars and generally make a total nuisance of myself.
I don't care much for splitting hairs over what label I get, as long as it's not personal - I do try to be a nice person in real life :)
Click to expand...

See, this is the kind of player I like meeting.
 

Bran Tse Mallory

Bran Tse Mallory
Olivia Vespera said:
but there's a difference between whether they're working in a group or a lone ranger. Whether they're hired by someone or whether they're working in their own self-interest. I for instance like hiring mercenaries to protect myself against bandits and marauders as PMC are a little too pricey for freelance trading.
I try to have an amicable relationship with pirates and bandits alike but would prefer to deal with an organised outfit of pirates over bandits for quality assurance across the board.
Click to expand...

Allow me to use Marra's quote as an example.

Marra said:
I simply describe myself as an "Outlaw".
I pirate, smuggle, assassinate, do heist jobs, kill police, support unfettered factions in wars and generally make a total nuisance of myself.
I don't care much for splitting hairs over what label I get, as long as it's not personal - I do try to be a nice person in real life :)
Click to expand...

Firstly no offense is meant by the following, I have no reason to think you are a bad person in real life :)

Marra considers herself an outlaw, her term and it fits the description of how she plays. To me, the potential victim she is just a thief and a killer. Nothing more. And should be dealt with accordingly.

However the criminal types want to label themselves the fact is they are still criminals and as such I will not be using romanticized titles to detract from the crimes they carry out.

A transparent exterior wall technician is just a window cleaner.
 

bamber

B
one of the (many) roles I play is as a pirate and I do it quite openly I enjoy taking down ships and taking theior shields down and launching hatch breakers at them and getting the cargo spilled
.
I keep them as high as possible on the huill ratings - I want their cargo not their ship and if I destroy the ship and cargo is inside Ive lost money
.
But Im a pirate when I do this, im not an outlaw or a marauder or whatever else you want to call me - I pirate
 

Olivia Vespera

Olivia Vespera
Bran Tse Mallory said:
Marra considers herself an outlaw, her term and it fits the description of how she plays. To me, the potential victim she is just a thief and a killer. Nothing more. And should be dealt with accordingly.

However the criminal types want to label themselves the fact is they are still criminals and as such I will not be using romanticized titles to detract from the crimes they carry out.

A transparent exterior wall technician is just a window cleaner.
Click to expand...
Hmm i understand and appreciate your sentiments. I didn't mean to specify the legality (right or wrong) for living such a lifestyle. Only to introduce new vocabulary to talk about the various types. I have since added a scope section to the OP to specify the scope.
 
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Wasp0

Wasp0
Marra said:
I simply describe myself as an "Outlaw".
I pirate, smuggle, assassinate, do heist jobs, kill police, support unfettered factions in wars and generally make a total nuisance of myself.
I don't care much for splitting hairs over what label I get, as long as it's not personal - I do try to be a nice person in real life :)
Click to expand...

This is the kind of character i would like if i had a second account.....(Oh i do !! ;) )
 

Olivia Vespera

Olivia Vespera
bamber said:
But I'm a pirate when I do this, im not an outlaw or a marauder or whatever else you want to call me - I pirate
Click to expand...
According to the dichotomy you would be a pirate. (or a bandit if you're a lone ranger)
InMemoriamSirocco said:
"Raider" is also a popular term you could use on your list.
Click to expand...
I need to know what it means and how it would fit within the existing dichotomy.
tawittle said:
meh it's a confusing distinction. For most bounty hunters, we don't care if you are out to rob players or kill them, we deal with you the same.
Click to expand...
:) That's a good point. Isn't bounty hunting illegal even if you KWS if they're legal in that system?
 
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