Pirate Engineer data grabber Limpets (Pirates Only)

[SkipRat]

I think pirates should get a specially modified limpet that can hack exploration data, so when the explorer player sells his date, the pirate actually receives the money etc from an x number of random systems that he has collected data from... And the data is transferred to the black market.

By doing this way, the pirate doesn't want to kill the explorer player, because then he cant sell his data, but still needs to interdict him and get through his defences to plant the software on the ship, as the Pirate doesn't actually take the data from the explorer, just redirects the information once it is sold.

Also, if engine wear and tear comes in, it means pirates in more combat oriented ships that cant go out exploring, can still increase their explorer rank.... Just through dodgy means... And makes a positive use for the karma system.

It also goes with out saying, that certain engineers may offer counter measures that reduce the impact of the limpets.

Thoughts?

 

[Bomba Luigi]

That sound horrible unbalanced tbh, with 5 minutes work you get all the reward from someones work that could have taken months. Most likley without any risk whatsover too, there are some explorers with more defense and weapons but its not exaclty common.

 

[SkipRat]

That sound horrible unbalanced tbh, with 5 minutes work you get all the reward from someones work that could have taken months. Most likley without any risk whatsover too, there are some explorers with more defense and weapons but its not exaclty common.

Whenever was piracy fair?

The whole point about piracy is that it easier than doing the thing your are pirating....

And I never said all the reward from an explorer... just an x number, so could be 5-10 at most with a better class of limpet targeting the more profitable data.

I just love the way people automatically go to the worse case scenario, that an explore must lose all his data

 

[Sooden]

I think pirates should get a specially modified limpet that can hack exploration data, so when the explorer player sells his date, the pirate actually receives the money etc from an x number of random systems that he has collected data from... And the data is transferred to the black market.

By doing this way, the pirate doesn't want to kill the explorer player, because then he cant sell his data, but still needs to interdict him and get through his defences to plant the software on the ship, as the Pirate doesn't actually take the data from the explorer, just redirects the information once it is sold.

Also, if engine wear and tear comes in, it means pirates in more combat oriented ships that cant go out exploring, can still increase their explorer rank.... Just through dodgy means... And makes a positive use for the karma system.

It also goes with out saying, that certain engineers may offer counter measures that reduce the impact of the limpets.

Thoughts?

i guess if (and have posted on hacking tools a few times);

The limpet takes a good amount of time to hack, 15 seconds? and can be disabled by EMC while it's trying to hack

would like to see data related piracy in some form, as it's 'the future'. but i think exploration thief will just make more go into solo . Not saying its unfair, just how it is.... so Fdev may not think the benefits outweigh the costs.

Added: 'delivery data' theft may be the way it goes, if at all.

 

[SkipRat]

i guess if (and have posted on hacking tools a few times);

The limpet takes a good amount of time to hack, 15 seconds? and can be disabled by EMC while it's trying to hack

would like to see data related piracy in some form, as it's 'the future'. but i think exploration thief will just make more go into solo . Not saying its unfair, just how it is.... so Fdev may not think the benefits outweigh the costs.

First line of defence would be point defence systems or ECM's, so the pirate would have to penetrate that. Then I would do it so that once the limpets attach, they deliver the software to the system... Then only activate once the data is being sold. Counter measures would reduce the number and value of the target data depending on the ranking of the counter measure.

So for example;

Explorer unprotected v Pirate A rated limpets = Explorer loses some of his most profitable systems and possibly his most valued

Explorer A rated protected v Pirate F rated limpets = Pirate steals some of the lowest value data

Explorer A rated protected v Pirate A rated limpets = Explorer one or two upper value systems (not the highest 10 or so) and the rest medium value.

(Something similar along those lines)

I also think it would encourage more to play in open, as there is no reason for the pirates to kill them... if they do, they will not get any of the reward from the explorer and the data mining. Because right now, there is zero explorers travelling back in open... and furthermore, they can add this to NPC's pirates and enhance solo play at the same time.

But I kinda like your idea and the time thing and currently thinking of a balanced way to implement it.

 

[askavir]

This would not work out as you think OP.

If this was ever implemented, what would happen is this: When I got back from an exploration trip, I would only sell a single worthless system of data first to check if I get the money for it. If not, I would hop into a sidewinder and suicide myself to dump all the other data and make sure the pirate would get nothing.

It would also not encourage those players to play in open, because the reason they don't play in open is... they don't want to risk losing the exploration data they collected along weeks or months.

 

[Valethar]

I also think it would encourage more to play in open

You want to add a mechanism that facilitates attacks on other players, and think that's going to encourage people who don't want anything to do with anything that looks like PvP to play in open?

I don't see it happening. You'd still have to interdict the player, then get the probe to hit them, all while they're running or defending themselves. And when they don't cooperate, someone's going to get salty and nuke them, saying it was their fault for resisting (just like they do now for cargo piracy), which will then 'encourage' the explorers to stay out of open.

For many explorers, it's not about the money, it's about discovery. They stay out of open because they don't want months of effort thrown in the recycler because someone got their knickers in a twist and melted their hull out of spite.

 

[SkipRat]

This would not work out as you think OP.

If this was ever implemented, what would happen is this: When I got back from an exploration trip, I would only sell a single worthless system of data first to check if I get the money for it. If not, I would hop into a sidewinder and suicide myself to dump all the other data and make sure the pirate would get nothing.

It would also not encourage those players to play in open, because the reason they don't play in open is... they don't want to risk losing the exploration data they collected along weeks or months.

You wouldn't know if your data had been stolen, because it maybe the case that data becomes invisible to you and you only have to sell one point of data to trigger the software.

And if you killed yourself in a sidewinder afterwards... then well... thats your decision, but the pirate still gets his money and package sent through.

- - - Updated - - -

You want to add a mechanism that facilitates attacks on other players, and think that's going to encourage people who don't want anything to do with anything that looks like PvP to play in open?

I don't see it happening. You'd still have to interdict the player, then get the probe to hit them, all while they're running or defending themselves. And when they don't cooperate, someone's going to get salty and nuke them, saying it was their fault for resisting (just like they do now for cargo piracy), which will then 'encourage' the explorers to stay out of open.

For many explorers, it's not about the money, it's about discovery. They stay out of open because they don't want months of effort thrown in the recycler because someone got their knickers in a twist and melted their hull out of spite.

The limpets are used as offensive weapon when and explorers are meant to resist and sod off, that's the whole point of using specially designed limpets.

 

[May0]

I already play solo when it comes to exploration data. Forget the chance of getting something skimmed off the top by some limpet, I'd be more afraid of being outright killed. I know there's some Larpy pirates who will give you a fair shake but I'm not willing to roll the dice on someone botching weeks or months of exploration because they have an itchy trigger finger.

On the flip side if I were to get into pirating and such a way to steal exploration data were to be available I'm not sure how well I'd be utilizing it. I suppose the best way would be to go out to colonia and other stations in deep space and jump people around there. Most people in the core worlds or returning to core worlds with a bucket load of data probably wouldn't want to risk it being stolen or death like myself.

 

[SkipRat]

If I was FD, I would tell you all to get a pair metaphorical nadgers and man the hell up.

Seriously, the only counter argument is i'm scared and want totally risk free game play with as much depth as a sheet of paper.

Rather than being scared little children, try coming up with solutions to problems...

Icloud for data storage, so don't lose all your data, works like insurance... but you still get hit with a data grabber limpet.

 

[Titus Balls]

That sound horrible unbalanced tbh, with 5 minutes work you get all the reward from someones work that could have taken months. Most likley without any risk whatsover too, there are some explorers with more defense and weapons but its not exaclty common.

I remember literally hearing the idea that players could steal data from you - but that never happened. This idea was supposed to be in from the beginning. It's mentioned in one of DBOBE's original dev diaries (don't ask me to find it). Also https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/09/08/elite-dangerous-exploration/

Scanning is dangerous, as the power consumption required to use the tools alerts any nearby ships to your location and may draw enemies towards you.

Oh in fact here's a better version of it: http://www.pcgamer.com/elite-dangerous-newsletter-details-upcoming-exploration-systems/

Here comes the crime bit: to claim the reward from a scanned planet or moon, players will need to return their data to a Federation or Imperial planet with a data claim registration facility. This mean competing explorers can attack each other to be first back with their information, and even lets pirates attempt to steal the data from an exploration ship.

 

[Conch]

If I was FD, I would tell you all to get a pair metaphorical nadgers and man the hell up.

Seriously, the only counter argument is i'm scared and want totally risk free game play with as much depth as a sheet of paper.

Rather than being scared little children, try coming up with solutions to problems...

Icloud for data storage, so don't lose all your data, works like insurance... but you still get hit with a data grabber limpet.

yeah go insult people, see how far that gets you

also, you never tried to get 50 rolls of G5 DDT by the sound of it..

 

[kofeyh]

The problem here is the "first discovered" bonus, killing the CMDR to ensure they payday due to stolen data is likely to be more profitable. This is possibly why such a thing doesn't exist, because it actually incentivises executing the CMDR, not keeping them alive.

Frontier would need to set a flag on the data to remove first discovery bonus, otherwise it's just incentivising executions. Get what you are suggesting, but I'm not sure you've thought about consequences.

Piracy that incentivises keeping CMDR's alive, versus dead, is likely to lead to more traction on requests. If the commander has to hand in the data for the pirate to profit, and only if the original commander hands it in, then perhaps. But I don't think many will support it.

Braben came up with a lot of nebulous ideas. However, the game has to actually deliver those ideas in some kind of sane fashion and have some kind of mechanics to support. I think he had some fairly romantic ideas of piracy, to be fair. He is British and therefore probably meant a "privateer" in ideals. They never really made it into the game; instead pirates basically got dumped on from day one, and handed mechanics that essentially provided the modern interpretation. Which is all guns and a bad attitude and no real incentive to be an old skool privateer.

 

[Gunnet]

What is it with people who want to receive fabulous cash prizes for attacking non-combat ships and accusing others of being risk averse?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I think pirates should get a specially modified limpet that can hack exploration data, so when the explorer player sells his date, the pirate actually receives the money etc from an x number of random systems that he has collected data from... And the data is transferred to the black market.

By doing this way, the pirate doesn't want to kill the explorer player, because then he cant sell his data, but still needs to interdict him and get through his defences to plant the software on the ship, as the Pirate doesn't actually take the data from the explorer, just redirects the information once it is sold.

Also, if engine wear and tear comes in, it means pirates in more combat oriented ships that cant go out exploring, can still increase their explorer rank.... Just through dodgy means... And makes a positive use for the karma system.

It also goes with out saying, that certain engineers may offer counter measures that reduce the impact of the limpets.

Thoughts?

Yeah.

No.

I'm not in deep space for months so some lazy git can run off with my data, even if it's just a fraction.

If I was FD, I would tell you all to get a pair metaphorical nadgers and man the hell up.

I agree. Get your own data, and stop being a whiny baby wanting to ride on other CMDRs coattails.

Rather than being scared little children, try coming up with solutions to problems...

Fair enough. Your idea sucks, problem solved.

 

[SkipRat]

Yeah.

No.

I'm not in deep space for months so some lazy git can run off with my data, even if it's just a fraction.

I agree. Get your own data, and stop being a whiny baby wanting to ride on other CMDRs coattails.

Fair enough. Your idea sucks, problem solved.

I am not a pirate, I hate piracy the criminal scumbags... Never have been, never will be. I was an explorer and trader mainly.

I am coming up with ways to benefit the game for everyone and add some much needed depth and meaningful interaction.

Once again, pointing directly you, because of your mass hypocrisy, you want consequences for pirates for the actions they take and people call them out for being care bears because they don't want consequences to the their actions and should be free to do whatever they want. And here you are with the explorers whining and crying, because someone has come up with a fair way to burst your care bear bubble.

I really couldn't give a monkeys how long you have been out in the deep space, there is no justifiable reason why explorers should be exempt from piracy in some manner.

No wonder this game is steaming pile of horse dung at the moment with hypocrites like you around.

- - - Updated - - -

I remember literally hearing the idea that players could steal data from you - but that never happened. This idea was supposed to be in from the beginning. It's mentioned in one of DBOBE's original dev diaries (don't ask me to find it). Also https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/09/08/elite-dangerous-exploration/



Oh in fact here's a better version of it: http://www.pcgamer.com/elite-dangerous-newsletter-details-upcoming-exploration-systems/

Interesting... explorers stealing data from each other... Imperials going head to head with federation over systems.

I like it

- - - Updated - - -

The problem here is the "first discovered" bonus, killing the CMDR to ensure they payday due to stolen data is likely to be more profitable. This is possibly why such a thing doesn't exist, because it actually incentivises executing the CMDR, not keeping them alive.

Frontier would need to set a flag on the data to remove first discovery bonus, otherwise it's just incentivising executions. Get what you are suggesting, but I'm not sure you've thought about consequences.

Piracy that incentivises keeping CMDR's alive, versus dead, is likely to lead to more traction on requests. If the commander has to hand in the data for the pirate to profit, and only if the original commander hands it in, then perhaps. But I don't think many will support it.

Braben came up with a lot of nebulous ideas. However, the game has to actually deliver those ideas in some kind of sane fashion and have some kind of mechanics to support. I think he had some fairly romantic ideas of piracy, to be fair. He is British and therefore probably meant a "privateer" in ideals. They never really made it into the game; instead pirates basically got dumped on from day one, and handed mechanics that essentially provided the modern interpretation. Which is all guns and a bad attitude and no real incentive to be an old skool privateer.

That can be solved, stolen data doesn't change first found... More importantly as I said, the way it would work means the explorer has to get back to the station in order for pirate to receive his goodies.

Privateer could easily be part of any military career path, so once you reach a certain rank, you can choose to become a privateer for the Federation, and pirate Alliance and iimperial space. Fits perfectly with the new karma system, Feds love you, Aliiance and Imperials will hate you criminal scumbag.

 

[JonLuis69]

I would like a booby trapped cargo item, with a timer. Maybe you can only have one every so often or whatever, but they would be hella fun to deploy.

Defused at the station, they would be mad fun for the pirate too, getting to safety before the timer runs out. Maybe they could be sold for crazy credits to benefit both players.

[yesnod] make it so FDev.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I am not a pirate, I hate piracy the criminal scumbags... Never have been, never will be. I was an explorer and trader mainly.

I am coming up with ways to benefit the game for everyone and add some much needed depth and meaningful interaction.

Once again, pointing directly you, because of your mass hypocrisy, you want consequences for pirates for the actions they take and people call them out for being care bears because they don't want consequences to the their actions and should be free to do whatever they want. And here you are with the explorers whining and crying, because someone has come up with a fair way to burst your care bear bubble.

I really couldn't give a monkeys how long you have been out in the deep space, there is no justifiable reason why explorers should be exempt from piracy in some manner.

No wonder this game is steaming pile of horse dung at the moment with hypocrites like you around.

Sad to see you and your cheerful disposition go

 

[Vorthax]

It could work, but piracy needs to be high risk-high reward.

What would be an equivalent loss for the pirate? Losing all engineered components? Hours/days/weeks of "forced labor" hauling in predefined, unarmed ship? "Forced telepresence" to Beagle Point?

 

[BL1P]

When you realise this wasn't a request for a Harpoon Gun for Pirates.