Pirates - A protected species?

M00ka · Jun 25, 2015

In another thread concerning hackers and combat logging there were a few posts from self proclaimed Pirates complaining about intended targets not submitting and dropping cargo. It got me thinking, are pirates that precious, do they really expect everyone to just hand over their expensive cargo simply because they asked for it? It seems to be a sentiment that has been echoed here quite often.
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I am definitely against it. When I was cargo hauling I did everything in my power (and ability) to ensure the Pirate didn't win - short of Combat Logging (wish FD could work out a way to identify that and ban players who do it) or self destructing (kind of pointless in my opinion). I will fight, I will run, I will do my best to boost and SC out of there, if worse comes to worse and I still have shields left, I will ram the pirate without any hesitation. And if the Pirate does destroy me I go to the great Station in the Sky knowing all he got was a bounty and not my cargo

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Why should anyone just hand over our goods just because they asked. There is always the chance that even if the trader does dump the cargo, the Pirate will still destroy the trader just for the kicks. Yes I know, any honourable Pirate would never do that but I always assume they will. Of course, I never left a station without insurance and the knowledge that if I do lose my cargo I will still have enough funds to continue playing. Those that don't, well please don't come here complaining.
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So what is everyone's thoughts on Piracy, should ships meekly submit so the Pirate can earn his money or do you fight tooth and nail like I do?

salad · Jun 25, 2015

I'm with you.

Never give up, never surrender.

X-Terminator · Jun 25, 2015

Should have a Parlay feature for the innocent ship so he can hear the requests before getting killed in 10secs. Without any such requests nor scan nor being actual hits then it detects a griefer - hello Shadow Server

Why would they attack runners if all it means is destroying the lute and maybe no bounty to collect?

Soopyyy · Jun 25, 2015

X-Terminator said:
Should have a Parlay feature for the innocent ship so he can hear the requests before getting killed in 10secs. Without any such requests nor scan nor being actual hits then it detects a griefer - hello Shadow Server

That's not griefing, thats murder and its a legitimate part of the game. Don't play open if you don't want to be exposed to it.

X-Terminator · Jun 25, 2015

No one dies in Elite - the effect of this is losing all your grind whilst you did not join in the combat of PvP.

Arry · Jun 25, 2015

Got a bit worried for a minute then? I am not really a hauler, but do meet a pirate now and then. I tend not to wait for the conversation, just 4 pips to weapons or engine and my choice is made. Now I am glad they are not to become a 'protected species'. Business as usual. Carry a couple of tons of gold and wait for the one way conversation.

GJ51 · Jun 25, 2015

I do the self-destruct just to aggravate them.

GriM_AoD · Jun 25, 2015

M00ka said:
So what is everyone's thoughts on Piracy, should ships meekly submit so the Pirate can earn his money or do you fight tooth and nail like I do?

Pirates gonna pirate.. I'd be lying if the blend of my combat/trading activity that is piracy hasn't called to me on a few occasions.
But fighting tooth and nail, is just going to get you killed, compliance will in most cases let you live and retain enough cargo to make a little profit from that haul.
Assuming the worst and fighting, brings the worst as they will fight back.

I imagine sacrificing yourself and your cargo would seem to be nothing but a minor inconvenience to a pirate.

Lucifer Hate · Jun 25, 2015

X-Terminator said:
Should have a Parlay feature for the innocent ship so he can hear the requests before getting killed in 10secs. Without any such requests nor scan nor being actual hits then it detects a griefer - hello Shadow Server
Why would they attack runners if all it means is destroying the lute and maybe no bounty to collect?

If we did not attack the runners then why would anyone ever drop cargo as the threat of death would be hollow

Rauminen · Jun 25, 2015

GJ51 said:
I do the self-destruct just to aggravate them.

That's sad. The same way as combat logging is. Don't do it.

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On the other hand, to answer the question, yes they are. Have you seen any twitch / yt video of these so called master pirates? How much they have to scoop for 200k? Some of them even have anacondas, not sure how - if not from the bounties they got from killing their mates, then letting their mates kill them back.

These are not pirates. "Beggars" is much more appropriate. Give them some change and be on your merry way.

Endangered species? Yes. Sure as heaven they are not doing it for the credits.

Arry · Jun 25, 2015

GriM_AoD said:
Pirates gonna pirate.. I'd be lying if the blend of my combat/trading activity that is piracy hasn't called to me on a few occasions.
But fighting tooth and nail, is just going to get you killed, compliance will in most cases let you live and retain enough cargo to make a little profit from that haul.
Assuming the worst and fighting, brings the worst as they will fight back.

I imagine sacrificing yourself and your cargo would seem to be nothing but a minor inconvenience to a pirate.

A pirate is an honourable position in life, but all pirates understand; that death, is just a part of the life.

X-Terminator · Jun 25, 2015

Imagine combat with a Pirate after you Wing up. The taunts, pleas, screams, swearing! hahaha

stocko1111 · Jun 25, 2015

I fly a Clipper which, in my opinion, is the best pirating craft there is. I am an honorable pirate when I'm a pirate, and I ask for a reasonable share when I'm playing PvP. Some stop, have a chat and we fly off amicably, both happy. Other times, I meet players who run after I give them reasonable warning and then I shoot for the drive or the cargo hatch. Sometimes they get away, sometimes they don't. The truth is, everyone is different and it can lead to some very unexpected results.
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I was carrying a lot of rares when a player Python interdicted me. I submitted (which is, most of the time, the best tactic when being interdicted), and said 'hey'. (It also helps to start a dialogue!). He asked for some cargo but all I was out to do that evening was cruise around and not get into a fight. I boosted away while he fired some shots. He interdicted me again and the repeat happened. It was getting like cat and mouse and could have gone on all night so I messaged him while in supercruise offering a deal. I had a mission to kill a general and I'd struggled previously when the general was guarded by a good few ships! I offered 10t of rares and he(or she'd) obviously get a share of any bounties we got on the way. They were up for it and so we winged up and set off.
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My new wing was wanted and so we got set upon by the system defence forces and quite a few other ships! This was my new wingman, no time to worry about accumulating bounties, so I helped out and shot everything that moved, getting some nice bounties on my head in the meantime. We eventually got the target I was looking for and then stopped to recap. The fights we'd had with other Anacondas, Pythons and lots of others was a lot of fun. I said to take the pick of my cargo and I was only asked for 5t of rares. I dropped 10t, said my goodbyes and we parted.
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What started as being pirated turned into a great little adventure. You don't always have to give up, or fight. Offer something else in exchange. If you're a trader then offer to wing up and then they can get trade dividends or you could drop cargo in exchange for an escort to the station. It's difficult to pirate, there's not much money in it and a lot of players think that fighting to the death is the best option, which is not profitable for pirates! If we ask for 10t, say yes, but ask to be escorted to the station. I would say yes straight away, that's good thinking. Not all players, pirates etc are like this. But once people see it works, you may not make friends or allies, but we can all tolerate each other in exchange for trading services!
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Have a message pre copied or cut beforehand declaring some kind of intentions, good or bad! That way you can paste it into the comms as soon as you're interdicted. That makes pirates realise you're open to a deal too.
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As I said, not the same for everyone, but these are my thoughts and experiences as a pirate (and, once, a trader!) Good luck out there!

M00ka · Jun 25, 2015

GriM_AoD said:
Pirates gonna pirate.. I'd be lying if the blend of my combat/trading activity that is piracy hasn't called to me on a few occasions.
But fighting tooth and nail, is just going to get you killed, compliance will in most cases let you live and retain enough cargo to make a little profit from that haul.
Assuming the worst and fighting, brings the worst as they will fight back.

I imagine sacrificing yourself and your cargo would seem to be nothing but a minor inconvenience to a pirate.

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Humbly disagree about being a minor inconvenience. If they want MY cargo, cargo that I have paid for and could even be part of mission that means I will get fined for a non-delivery, then they are going to have to damn well earn it. If I lose my ship etc. in the process at least I know they have done something apart from dragging me out of SC and asking. I want these Jolly Rogers to remember my name, to think twice about interdicting me because they know they would get things for free from me. No faction just gives me cargo to trade as I wish, no wanted ship turns off it's shields so I can have an easy kill, so why should Pirates expect do just give them cargo for free?

Mr_Blastman · Jun 25, 2015

Ye rang?

Me thoughts be simple. Another head fer the mast! If ye don't pay the tax.

'Twould be sound judgement 'an all, if ye offer ye coffers and pay the small toll. Nay ye do not, then I'll take yer soul!

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

Rauminen · Jun 25, 2015

M00ka said:
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Humbly disagree about being a minor inconvenience. If they want MY cargo, cargo that I have paid for and could even be part of mission that means I will get fined for a non-delivery, then they are going to have to damn well earn it. If I lose my ship etc. in the process at least I know they have done something apart from dragging me out of SC and asking. I want these Jolly Rogers to remember my name, to think twice about interdicting me because they know they would get things for free from me. No faction just gives me cargo to trade as I wish, no wanted ship turns off it's shields so I can have an easy kill, so why should Pirates expect do just give them cargo for free?

They are poor. Have a heart!

Jordan Cobalt · Jun 25, 2015

Frankly I don't care if the target give up 20% of their cargo or not. If they don't, they better have enough for insurance. Either way I'm getting paid, in cargo or blood, I get something out of it.

I don't think most pirates are upset when a target refuses, it's more bewilderment. Why a trader would rather lose 100% cargo and insurance, instead of 20-30% of their cargo I'll never understand.

CMDR Derrida · Jun 25, 2015

Up to the player. Obvious innit.

GriM_AoD · Jun 25, 2015

M00ka said:
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Humbly disagree about being a minor inconvenience. If they want MY cargo, cargo that I have paid for and could even be part of mission that means I will get fined for a non-delivery, then they are going to have to damn well earn it. If I lose my ship etc. in the process at least I know they have done something apart from dragging me out of SC and asking. I want these Jolly Rogers to remember my name, to think twice about interdicting me because they know they would get things for free from me. No faction just gives me cargo to trade as I wish, no wanted ship turns off it's shields so I can have an easy kill, so why should Pirates expect do just give them cargo for free?

As I said a minor inconvenience to the pirate, of course it's much more so to the trader.
A pirates work is finding their quarry, cornering it and taking the cargo under threat of violence. If they've found a player populated trade route that has good value cargo and successfully interdicted their chosen target, then they have done the hard part, the actual taking being the easy part. (not counting high security systems where it's a race against the clock to be done before security arrives)
Your self destruction along with your cargo will generate little more than fleeting disappointment in most cases. While I see he gesture you're trying to make, I also believe it to be an exercise in futility doing naught but costing yourself Cr

Long story short, by the time you're at their mercy, they've done most of the work.. and choosing death will just have them back out in SC waiting for the next prey sooner.