Exactly. When asked about the "lore" around multicrew, rather than coming up with the nonsense of telepresence, Frontier should have just said "some things are just there for gameplay reasons"
Placeholder mechanics?
- Thread starter EdzUp
- Start date
Exactly. When asked about the "lore" around multicrew, rather than coming up with the nonsense of telepresence, Frontier should have just said "some things are just there for gameplay reasons"
![[Diplomacy] Carnegie](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/123/123809.jpg?1553527149){kind=avatar}
Which is why I now spend more time in the forum than playing the game. Be careful what you call a placeholder or FDev may come along and 'improve' it for you.
Frontier didnt seem to mind adding time barriers to ship transfers
As a result of a popular vote. Wanting everyone to meet up for multicrew just isn't as popular, if you do you just fly in a wing anyway.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Frontier didnt seem to mind adding time barriers to ship transfers
Grudgingly, it seems, given that the second Dev proposal was to introduce Ship Transfers as an instant feature. The first proposal was in the DDF and included both time and cost components. Only after a fairly significant backlash from players did Frontier choose to put the question to the player-base, holding an official poll (off forum, to ensure eligibility for voting).
The entire game is just a placeholder for "The New Era". I don't expect much to be added / finished between now and late 2020 or even 2021.
Jenner
I wish I was English like my hero Tj.
Holo-Me is very placeholder ........ and I presume it's for Legs ?
Apart from selfie images, it doesn't do much for the game, so far, does it? Even the store has gone quiet on outfitting.
Apart from selfie images, it doesn't do much for the game, so far, does it? Even the store has gone quiet on outfitting.
Agreed, I would love to see my hired crew-person sitting in on of my extra seats evenit the control of the fighter is remote.
And I know turrets are just automatic but of you have turreted weapons and a crew and you don't deploy a fighter it would be cool if they said "Manning turrets" and threw in come commmentary while in the heat of battle. It would liven up the game some.
There's a few things that I can see that blur the line between placeholder and work-in-progress, assuming there is a distinction.
Notably, the BGS I see as being very much incomplete. They have done a bit more work on it in Beyond, but it's still a far cry from being capable of standing on its own without constant fiddling and developer intervention.
Similarly, the Thargoid war is mostly just a layering of MVPs in order to give the illusion of "something" happening, rather than a coherent set of actual mechanics that flow properly together and simulate a full response from humanity. This may be partially because the BGS isn't yet capable of simulating widespread conflicts though, it can barely even give the impression of two minor factions squabbling, let alone simulating the full political, military and economic webs that exist between Aegis, its fellow naval factions out at Maia, the three superpowers and the Thargoid menace.
There's a few other things though that just feel like "proof of concept", an initial draft that got something out of the door and would definitely pass for an early Alpha product, but have received very little attention since. They don't feel like they are just there to mark a future feature, but instead they are the abandoned seedling that has the potential to bloom into a feature.
Notably in this category is NPC crew. Sure, they can fly your SLFs and look after your ship if you want to control the fighters yourself for a bit, but that's literally all they can do. They can't even fly your ship or the fighters while you are on the surface in an SRV, let alone do things like operate SRVs themselves to give you more support on the ground (or to get the stuff for you after being dropped off planetside while you provide the air support). To take things further, they are completely incapable of doing anything outside combat, such as helping you scan things or picking up messages and tip-offs for you.
The planetside stuff also feels very much like an early Alpha product. Sure, it's playable and shows off some interesting concepts and potential, but fundamentally there isn't much to it. More stuff to do, more things to interact with, more vehicles to use and generally integrating it with more of the rest of the game would go a long way to making it feel like a proper feature rather than just a bolt-on proof of concept.
For actual placeholder mechanics, there's a few that catch my eye. Notably, RESs feel very much like a placeholder, although I would have no issues if they were to be simply renamed to "pirate raid in progress" and the HAZRES being "pirate jamming detected" to give a better idea of what they are actually about. Community goals feel very placeholderish, as they feel like they are just there to shore up current shortcomings in the BGS rather than a feature in their own right. Powerplay I'm not sure about, as it is definitely unfinished but I don't know whether I feel like it is just an incomplete and abandoned early-Alpha feature or whether it is just there to show off the Powers. There's probably others if I bothered to think about them for a bit more.
Notably, the BGS I see as being very much incomplete. They have done a bit more work on it in Beyond, but it's still a far cry from being capable of standing on its own without constant fiddling and developer intervention.
Similarly, the Thargoid war is mostly just a layering of MVPs in order to give the illusion of "something" happening, rather than a coherent set of actual mechanics that flow properly together and simulate a full response from humanity. This may be partially because the BGS isn't yet capable of simulating widespread conflicts though, it can barely even give the impression of two minor factions squabbling, let alone simulating the full political, military and economic webs that exist between Aegis, its fellow naval factions out at Maia, the three superpowers and the Thargoid menace.
There's a few other things though that just feel like "proof of concept", an initial draft that got something out of the door and would definitely pass for an early Alpha product, but have received very little attention since. They don't feel like they are just there to mark a future feature, but instead they are the abandoned seedling that has the potential to bloom into a feature.
Notably in this category is NPC crew. Sure, they can fly your SLFs and look after your ship if you want to control the fighters yourself for a bit, but that's literally all they can do. They can't even fly your ship or the fighters while you are on the surface in an SRV, let alone do things like operate SRVs themselves to give you more support on the ground (or to get the stuff for you after being dropped off planetside while you provide the air support). To take things further, they are completely incapable of doing anything outside combat, such as helping you scan things or picking up messages and tip-offs for you.
The planetside stuff also feels very much like an early Alpha product. Sure, it's playable and shows off some interesting concepts and potential, but fundamentally there isn't much to it. More stuff to do, more things to interact with, more vehicles to use and generally integrating it with more of the rest of the game would go a long way to making it feel like a proper feature rather than just a bolt-on proof of concept.
For actual placeholder mechanics, there's a few that catch my eye. Notably, RESs feel very much like a placeholder, although I would have no issues if they were to be simply renamed to "pirate raid in progress" and the HAZRES being "pirate jamming detected" to give a better idea of what they are actually about. Community goals feel very placeholderish, as they feel like they are just there to shore up current shortcomings in the BGS rather than a feature in their own right. Powerplay I'm not sure about, as it is definitely unfinished but I don't know whether I feel like it is just an incomplete and abandoned early-Alpha feature or whether it is just there to show off the Powers. There's probably others if I bothered to think about them for a bit more.
Agreed.
The mechanics for investigative bounty hunting are there, they are just not being used. These could be used for other type of investigative missions. I.E the "resque the Princess" type of missions.
Big ships/little ships/medium ships. Other than landing pad size or cargo capacity there is nothing that forces me to change what ship I am currently flying. I love the smaller ships and I used to fly my Vipers in CZs all the time but the new CZs have made that quite impossible. I wish there was a real reason to use my Imperal Courier, like maybe, a special "courier mission!"
I have said before that you should have to buil dsome rep with the local Anarchy faction to gain access to the black market. We can debate what level of access is required. This would not just be sell but buy also.
The entirety of war in the BGS.
The only problem is that the present BGS would make no sense with any major changes to war without adding an additional layer for planetary governership to justify larger scale conflict.
The entirety of war, they've made some good strides but its still just go to a hairball in the middle of nowhere and shoot things till the game goes "you're winner". Personally I'd like to see more strike missions on convoys, installations and megaships alongside the introduction of naval ships between the Corvette/Cutter and Farragut. Ship descriptions allude to their existence while some of the tie in books outright state they exist, frigates, destroyers and the likes are notable by their absence. There should really also be missions revolving around logistics.
The only problem is that the present BGS would make no sense with any major changes to war without adding an additional layer for planetary governership to justify larger scale conflict.
Given the number of things that are now done with drones, we should be able to have many more NPC drones, performing more functions. SRV's, anyone?
It was, in my opinion, designed as a standalone game at one time, Now, it is permanently integrated into almost every style of gameplay.
I don't see it as a place holder. I see it as a strip-mining bulldozer.
I guess non landable atmospheric planets and a cmdr bolted to his seat are still placeholders.
I hope late 2020 will change that.
I hope late 2020 will change that.
Reading posts in this forum about "certain mechanics not making sense or breaking reality" which mechanics do you see as placeholders?
For me it's multicrew at present teleporting to a ship seems strange for a game which prides itself on reality, maybe it's there till space legs comes in
I do not care one bit about multiplayer multicrew, but...
For me the crew mechanic is placeholder, for we still do not have a mature npc ship crew mechanic.
But I do understand why this might have to wait a bit longer.
Also planetary mining is completely absent. Yes you can shoot at a certain type of rocks on the surface, but that is not what I would call planetary mining. I want mining SRV with a drill or something.
I also consider the military ranking and mission system to be placeholder. It simply makes no sense as it is.
I also consider the exterior station models to be unfinished. I think mining stations should look like mining stations and not use the same exterior as high tech, military or industrial stations. Military stations, prison stations, industrial stations etc. should also have models that distinguish them from common stations. This would enhance our experience very much.
I also would like to see some true Gutamaya designs in Imperial space. I also would like deep space frontier stations to have a different vibe. Currently it's all very samey.
I hope FDev will do for the exterior of stations what they did so well for the interior.
Back in a dev livestream i remember they mentioned in passing that Fdev dont understand why people call things place holder and that "Nothing in Elite is placeholder" .. quite a fair bit has been tweaked since then but the mechanics and loops are relatively the same.
I recall the live-stream where Ed Lewis looked at the FSS for the first time.
He twiddled the radio tuner, zoomed in on something, waggled the pointer around a bit, zoomed in a bit more and got a picture of a Gas Giant.
At that point, Ed said something like "Ah, found it. I guess this picture is just a work in progress and it'll be replaced by...." only to see the guy sat next to him shaking his head, at which point Ed changed his mind and said "Oh, okay. It looks good, I guess".
Kind of awkward but it speaks volumes about the level of polish the FSS, as a feature, has.
Said it before but I do get why the FSS functionality is useful and I do get why people like using it.
The problems I have with it are, firstly, that I think it could have worked with existing tools instead of replacing them and, secondly, that it lacks cohesion and polish; It looks like somebody cut & pasted the mapping feature out of a 1990s space RTS into ED.
Placeholders:
-Trading, Bounty Hunting, Piracy, Smuggling.
-Suprecruise
-Multicrew: I don't care about telepresence, the gameplay is just stupid. A stupid 3rd person camera, really? I want a real multicrew experience not a boring 3rd person turret OMG.
-Alien Bases
-Mechanics of planetary Exploration, POI, the players are the only ones who drive surface vehicles in the whole galaxy
-Powerplay
-Wings, the whole multiplayer experience, no trading between players, coop missions
Its like..., 80%+ of the game?
-Trading, Bounty Hunting, Piracy, Smuggling.
-Suprecruise
-Multicrew: I don't care about telepresence, the gameplay is just stupid. A stupid 3rd person camera, really? I want a real multicrew experience not a boring 3rd person turret OMG.
-Alien Bases
-Mechanics of planetary Exploration, POI, the players are the only ones who drive surface vehicles in the whole galaxy
-Powerplay
-Wings, the whole multiplayer experience, no trading between players, coop missions
Its like..., 80%+ of the game?
Well a lot is covered but I'll try a few:
1. Commodities with no value or use like Bauxite or Hydrogen. In fact, everything now besides void opals and the high (>500K per ton) items is useless other than to fill mission requests.
2. Search and rescue. There's a contact to log your gathered "rescued" items but if you assist a disabled vessel, not so much as a thank you.
3. Convoy Dispersal Patterns with threat levels but no threats - sure the ships look intimidating and if you shot one of them you'd probably have hell to pay, right? No. I have shot plenty and the others just mosey along, maybe an eagle will attack you. This is not the same as the CDPs with actual aggressors.
4. Navigation beacons. With honking they are pointless
5. Laser mining. Good for nothing but materials or filling a requirement by someone like Bill Turner.
6. Anything that falls on the financial value system that is overshadowed by more valuable items acquired using the same mechanics in the same areas for the same cost by the same ships. Examples would be of course #1 above, and missions to haul 5000 units of product X for far less than you could make in the same number of runs hauling product Y.
Another example would be mission change requests for fractions of what you are going to make, so you're going to get an extra 90K if you go twice the distance when you are making 900K or more otherwise.
7. Being told the name of the commander who is going to interdict you by the faction who hired you. When I am interdicted randomly it scares the hell out of me sometimes. That's a good thing. Knowing ahead of time just creates a "throttle down, wait for loser... pop".
8. Permits for systems that offer no advantage once gained. Most systems other than Shinrarta actually. I get some engineers are hidden behind permitted systems but really, is it worth finding Bill Turner just to upgrade ANYTHING but the plasma accelerator?
9. FSD supercharge that requires more time to remap a jump than just doing the two jumps instead. Different if you're beyond the range of the nearest system and need it to survive, obviously.
10. The metallic sounds every single ship makes (exactly the same sound) during jumps or supercruise. Quiet would be fine. I should be able to mute it without muting the entire game. Place holder? Perhaps... there's nothing really happening for all the multiple countdown sequences while you watch paint dry as you're going FTL and are BTT (bored to tears).
11. Getting 8 USS with the exact same outcomes.
12. The scrolling broadcasts from ships you've already killed
13. The repetitive 1% of all ships out there and ceremonial comms messages. We've seen enough of them. They serve no purpose.
14. Capital ships (pretty, useless, pretty useless)
That's enough for now. Some of those may not exactly be place holders but if they were removed something useful could be put there instead.
1. Commodities with no value or use like Bauxite or Hydrogen. In fact, everything now besides void opals and the high (>500K per ton) items is useless other than to fill mission requests.
2. Search and rescue. There's a contact to log your gathered "rescued" items but if you assist a disabled vessel, not so much as a thank you.
3. Convoy Dispersal Patterns with threat levels but no threats - sure the ships look intimidating and if you shot one of them you'd probably have hell to pay, right? No. I have shot plenty and the others just mosey along, maybe an eagle will attack you. This is not the same as the CDPs with actual aggressors.
4. Navigation beacons. With honking they are pointless
5. Laser mining. Good for nothing but materials or filling a requirement by someone like Bill Turner.
6. Anything that falls on the financial value system that is overshadowed by more valuable items acquired using the same mechanics in the same areas for the same cost by the same ships. Examples would be of course #1 above, and missions to haul 5000 units of product X for far less than you could make in the same number of runs hauling product Y.
Another example would be mission change requests for fractions of what you are going to make, so you're going to get an extra 90K if you go twice the distance when you are making 900K or more otherwise.
7. Being told the name of the commander who is going to interdict you by the faction who hired you. When I am interdicted randomly it scares the hell out of me sometimes. That's a good thing. Knowing ahead of time just creates a "throttle down, wait for loser... pop".
8. Permits for systems that offer no advantage once gained. Most systems other than Shinrarta actually. I get some engineers are hidden behind permitted systems but really, is it worth finding Bill Turner just to upgrade ANYTHING but the plasma accelerator?
9. FSD supercharge that requires more time to remap a jump than just doing the two jumps instead. Different if you're beyond the range of the nearest system and need it to survive, obviously.
10. The metallic sounds every single ship makes (exactly the same sound) during jumps or supercruise. Quiet would be fine. I should be able to mute it without muting the entire game. Place holder? Perhaps... there's nothing really happening for all the multiple countdown sequences while you watch paint dry as you're going FTL and are BTT (bored to tears).
11. Getting 8 USS with the exact same outcomes.
12. The scrolling broadcasts from ships you've already killed
13. The repetitive 1% of all ships out there and ceremonial comms messages. We've seen enough of them. They serve no purpose.
14. Capital ships (pretty, useless, pretty useless)
That's enough for now. Some of those may not exactly be place holders but if they were removed something useful could be put there instead.
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The whole Bounty hunter/Pirate/Trader interaction is placeholder in my opinion. We need some new tech to make it work. Who would bounty hunt PCs, except at CGs? In many ways it was better pre-engineers, although once the bounty cap was introduced and NPC pirate bounties increased, Bounty Hunting really became a farming exercise.
Multi-crew - its stuck in a rut. I hate tele-presence, Even if we keep the tele-presense, multi-crew 2 needs SRV support, "fly my ship support" (particularly if actually present, for stealing opps etc.). I appreciate blending other commanders assets is tuffer than wings.
Fighter + SRV support at the same time - need to be able to run an SRV + Fighter + Ship at the same time, I think this would make ground assault more fun. At the moment you can do this with 3 ships, rather than multi-crew.
The whole of Station Interaction - It might cause a riot, but I would expect this to be more 1st person when we get space legs.
Simon
Multi-crew - its stuck in a rut. I hate tele-presence, Even if we keep the tele-presense, multi-crew 2 needs SRV support, "fly my ship support" (particularly if actually present, for stealing opps etc.). I appreciate blending other commanders assets is tuffer than wings.
Fighter + SRV support at the same time - need to be able to run an SRV + Fighter + Ship at the same time, I think this would make ground assault more fun. At the moment you can do this with 3 ships, rather than multi-crew.
The whole of Station Interaction - It might cause a riot, but I would expect this to be more 1st person when we get space legs.
Simon