Planet Zoo 2 or big update on Planet Zoo 1

KoenZoo

K
Here and there, there are already discussions about if we need a Planet Zoo 2 or just a big update for Planet Zoo 1. So I thought lets create a topic for it, because now it is being mixed up between DLC discussions.

For me I don't really need a Planet Zoo 2. I think the graphics are ok, and looking at Planet Coaster 2, this was not much of an upgrade to really make it worth it.

Biggest issue I have with getting a PZ2 is that I expect a lot of bugs, so by the time it will be playable it will take some months. Also we get a big reset and need to wait most likely years for all the DLC to be released to have it at the same level as PZ1 (looking at the animal roster).

So I would rather pay the same amount of money to a big patch/update with a few fixes on the pathing tool and of course the addition of birds and marine animals. As a starter I would go for 20-25 species with the release:
  • 1/2 duck species
  • Secretary bird
  • Vulture species
  • Eagle species
  • 1/2 owl species
  • 2 parrot species
  • 5/6 tropical bird species
  • Sea turtle
  • Walrus
  • Ray/sharks/general tank species

And then they can of course do a few DLC's in the future as well with for example Amazonian birds/mammals/fish, ...
 

DragonLady

D
New here; but I've been playing PZ for quite a while now. I would prefer continually updating what we have; starting with bug fixes and expanding the existing range of items. I'd love to see new official barriers, more path options (and improvements to the way the pathing system works), etc. I, for one, don't need a new game, I just want to see the one I have get bigger and better. :)
 

Swjosdotschka

Swjosdotschka
Mjmannella said:
Let’s not normalize paying for updates
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An update in that size would be an expansion pack though, not an update. I think there is a miswording here. And it would take a sufficient amount of work and programming from Frontier + creating new species and I do want people to get paid for their work.

But as I said, I think OP frased it wrong. This is an expansion pack / paid DLC, nothing less.


The only thing that is argueably is, if an improvement to a pathing tool ( so a feature) should be put behind a paywall. I have no problem with that, but I understand when people do.

However: I think the current coding of PZ just does not allow for a huge pathing overhaul. It is engraved in the base and as Iben explained somwhere else so well: You don't shake tha base.
And Frontier probably also has good reason to not have included free flying birds in PZ1. We had an aviary in one of the first concept arts if I remember correctly, so at some point the discussion was on the table. I highly assume that was also a coding problem.
So it's kind of a moot point to discuss update vs. new game. PZ1 has it's limits.

For the longest time that was exactly why I looked forward to a PZ2. I saw it as a step forward. Then they released Planet Coaster the way they released it...
Lets say it now takes me far more than birds and item scaling to move over.
 

DragonLady

D
I know nothing about coding, so can't speak to that end on any topic, especially not something like a video game which I imagine to be extremely complicated.
I do have to say: I wish the pathing system could be fixed, even if it means a whole new game written from the bottom up. I have OCD, and the constant fight to get the paths to cooperate is a huge downer for me. While I don't feel like everything has to fit a nice, geometric grid with no gaps or uneven curves or whatever, I really want to be able to put the path right where I want it, just like so many other things. It also bakes my brain that I can remove a path section, then change my mind, but I cannot replace the path because it's suddenly "blocked". If I've done something between and don't want to "undo", I'm just stuck with a weird place where I can't modify the terrain, can't replace the path, can't quite stand the resulting mess, and no, putting a big coyote-killer rock on top is NOT the same. It just isn't.
Otherwise, I LOVE this game. I started out playing the original Zoo Tycoon with my son and am so thrilled to see how much more is possible in this game. I'm not much of a builder, but I do love seeing what other people make, and you can bet I will continue to buy updates, upgrades, or even new versions as they become available. :)
 

NZFanatic

NZFanatic
DragonLady said:
I wish the pathing system could be fixed, even if it means a whole new game written from the bottom up.
Click to expand...
It's fixed in Planet Coaster 2 which is on a new engine. I'd recommend looking up some PC2 videos to see what the new pathing system can do as it's pretty great and infinitely more flexible.

(As an aside, be careful throwing terms like "OCD" around. What you're describing is not a symptom of OCD, it's just simple perfectionism. OCD is a debilitating mental health condition that causes compulsions, not just wanting things to be tidy and orderly).
 

NZFanatic

NZFanatic
On the topic of the OP, I see this sentiment around a lot - "I don't want a sequel, I just want the game to be better". Unfortunately in most cases these two concepts are mutually exclusive. There are limits on how "good" the game can be in its current state. A lot of the improvements people desire necessitate a sequel on a new engine.

In any case, I have absolutely no doubt that the choice is already made. We will 100% be getting a sequel. It's just a matter of 'when', not 'if' (and I've said this before, but I am dead certain that like 90% of the people who say they wouldn't buy a sequel will be first in line to preorder it).
 

DragonLady

D
NZFanatic said:
It's fixed in Planet Coaster 2 which is on a new engine. I'd recommend looking up some PC2 videos to see what the new pathing system can do as it's pretty great and infinitely more flexible.

(As an aside, be careful throwing terms like "OCD" around. What you're describing is not a symptom of OCD, it's just simple perfectionism. OCD is a debilitating mental health condition that causes compulsions, not just wanting things to be tidy and orderly).
Click to expand...
I don't play Planet Coaster so wouldn't have any idea what to look for or have any point of reference to compare to. If I happen to see any vids pop up on my list that seem germane, I'll check them out.

NZFanatic said:
On the topic of the OP, I see this sentiment around a lot - "I don't want a sequel, I just want the game to be better". Unfortunately in most cases these two concepts are mutually exclusive. There are limits on how "good" the game can be in its current state. A lot of the improvements people desire necessitate a sequel on a new engine.

In any case, I have absolutely no doubt that the choice is already made. We will 100% be getting a sequel. It's just a matter of 'when', not 'if' (and I've said this before, but I am dead certain that like 90% of the people who say they wouldn't buy a sequel will be first in line to preorder it).
Click to expand...
Yeah; I think i understand what you're saying, so I'll clarify my personal opinion, for whatever it's worth:

I'm fine with the game as is, as I enjoy it enough to overlook its quirks. If the creators just choose to run with what they have, adding expansions and extra content, I'll be very happy. However, IF there is a sequel someday, I'd like to see the pathing system fixed .
 

NZFanatic

NZFanatic
DragonLady said:
I don't play Planet Coaster so wouldn't have any idea what to look for or have any point of reference to compare to. If I happen to see any vids pop up on my list that seem germane, I'll check them out.
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Zoo and Coaster are the same game - Zoo is just about animals while Coaster is about theme park rides. They use the same gameplay, including paths. Planet Coaster 2 is an upgrade in most ways, which is why I recommend looking up some videos so you can see what improvements to the pathing and building especially a Zoo sequel will likely offer. It's a pretty huge improvement, and not possible on the engine Zoo currently uses.
 

Dukemon

Dukemon
I think there are 2 possibilities.
Keeping the mass of content means continuing to update Planet Zoo in a big way, but you probably won't be able to expect any big leaps. Frontier broke the climbing system last time. I'm not a developer, but tweaking such fundamental parts of the code probably makes better sense if the game hasn't already shipped.
Nevertheless, please review the climbing system in PZ1. PLEAASE ^^'
Or concentrate on PZ2, the climbing system will be groundbreaking. There are enclosures for free-swimming and free-flying animals as a new feature. But the animal collection starts again at 70+.
 

Swjosdotschka

Swjosdotschka
DragonLady said:
I don't play Planet Coaster so wouldn't have any idea what to look for or have any point of reference to compare to. If I happen to see any vids pop up on my list that seem germane, I'll check them out.
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If germane stands for german, you cann watch Gorobai on YouTube. RudiRennkamel has a german channel now as well, but I don't watch him, so I don't know if they are recommendable.

Personally I'm still fighting with the path system of Planet coaster and I absolutely dislike the flat textures compared to Planet Zoo, but I am not happy with PC2 graphic choice in general, so... yeah. The pathing probably is an improvement once figured out, but I still don't think it's as good as everyone made it at first glance. Same with scaling. Sure nice to have, but the range of scaleability for each item often leaves me unsaitisfied.
 

DragonLady

D
Swjosdotschka said:
If germane stands for german, you cann watch Gorobai on YouTube. RudiRennkamel has a german channel now as well, but I don't watch him, so I don't know if they are recommendable.

Personally I'm still fighting with the path system of Planet coaster and I absolutely dislike the flat textures compared to Planet Zoo, but I am not happy with PC2 graphic choice in general, so... yeah. The pathing probably is an improvement once figured out, but I still don't think it's as good as everyone made it at first glance. Same with scaling. Sure nice to have, but the range of scaleability for each item often leaves me unsaitisfied.
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"germane" means "relevant to the subject".

Yeah, pattern repetition and object scalability are issues in most games.

I'm a Second Lifer and I LOVE building stuff with prims, but I don't have the imagination for building stuff with pre-made pieces in Planet Zoo, so I just pretty much ignore that aspect of the game and just download the workshop stuff others have made. I do wonder if a PZ2 could be made with more editable objects but just don't know enough about how any of it works to even have an intelligent discussion.
 

aubreykitsune

aubreykitsune
I would be happy if Planet Zoo could become a sort of "forever game" for Frontier in the way that Sims 4 is for EA. They could easily pump out DLCs for a while yet with how many animals people still request. And honestly, I'm biased because while my current system can run Planet Zoo, neither the CPU or GPU is enough for PlanCo2. There's a good chance I'll be left in the dust when (not if) Planet Zoo 2 happens.
 

Mjmannella

Mjmannella
jcp011c said:
If there were just a big upgrade to allow for fully marine animals and flying birds, i'd certainly rather have that. But...that's just not going to happen and I have to be realistic.
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This exactly the problem with trying to have "forever games". They will always be limited by their shackles to the past. You can update a game all you want, but there will always be fundamental constraints that can't be overcome without starting anew.
And plus, I'd rather not normalise the toxic notion of spending theoretically infinite money into a game (or subscription services for a more general tangent)
 

aubreykitsune

aubreykitsune
Mjmannella said:
This exactly the problem with trying to have "forever games". They will always be limited by their shackles to the past. You can update a game all you want, but there will always be fundamental constraints that can't be overcome without starting anew.
And plus, I'd rather not normalise the toxic notion of spending theoretically infinite money into a game (or subscription services for a more general tangent)
Click to expand...
Aviaries are a legitimate limitation of Planet Zoo 1. But is anything stopping them from adding aquarium animals to the current game? Would there be that much of a mechnical difference between them and deep-diving animals? The only changes needed would pretty much be underwater habitat gates, underwater birth, and diving zookeepers/vets - all theoretically doable in updates
 

Mjmannella

Mjmannella
While it's theoretically possible, that's a huge amount to things to add and do properly. Having all of those would just beg the question of why they couldn't just start from scratch so all animals can more naturally interact with their environment (i.e. redo modular climbing to be less jank). Even things like the proposed "underwater habitat gate" leave some unanswered questions. If the gate is underwater, how does the gate prevent water from escaping? If it's instead a more simplistic "diving board" akin to Zoo Tycoon, what happens when a keeper tries to drop an animal into a tank in which the player has removed the water?

That said, the standard Exhibits and Walkthrough Exhibits already exist as great bases for aquaria fauna and aviary birds respectively. And for a bit of an opinion, I don't think aquaria are worthwhile if they're never going to add whales (and that'll only happen when people stop being disproportionately huffy about captive whales).
 
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