Plasma Weapons - Shield Damage and other Problems

[Lazerus Artificial]

https://issues.frontierstore.net/issue-detail/36434

By now i tried every single Weapon, and a decent amount of Engineering.
This is what i have discovered...

Plasma Weapons. They do sound neat on Paper, good Damage against Shields and Health but for the cost that they are harder to hit with? Sounds fine...

Executioner, the "Long Range Plasma Rifle" or "Sniper" ... yeah it really is not.
100m effective Range? Sounds neat. On Paper. It has the same Projectile Speed as all the other Plasma Weapons, so its almost impossible to hit at that Range.
Its high Damage also sounds great on Paper...until you realize that there is no Overshield Damage. It doesnt matter if your Rifle deals 100dmg per Shot. If the Enemy has even just 1 Shield Point left, you will deal exactly 1 Point of Damage. So, you will always need atleast 2 Hits to kill someone with Shield.
My G2 was strong enough to destroy most of the "Medium" Shields, those with 3 Bars. Sometimes it left a tiny bit of it, in which case the Overshield Problem became visible. It did not matter that i just dealt 95% Damage in one Shot. So even at G5 it will always be a 2-Hit Kill.

Overshield Damage is no issue at all with the other Guns, as most of them have a high RoF. It doesnt matter if you need to hit 20 or 22 times. Your DPS comes from you Rate of Fire, not your Damage per Shot. So, with most Weapons you will not even notice it. Would it make the Executioner even more Deadly? YES. Its a Sniper Rifle, its supposed to be deadly. Its a High-Skill and High-Risk Weapon. Without the Ability to deal Damage, it just...nothing. So, take Cover and dont run around like a headless Chicken!

Intimidator, the Shotgun.
Lazy Design. There is no RNG Pattern with it, the Pellets always hit in the same Pattern. It also completely negates Overshield Damage due to the amount of Pellets it can hit with.

Oppressor, yeah no. There is literally no reason to use this. Even a G1 Laser Pistol is more effective at killing someone.
Damage is way too low, Projectiles are way too slow.

Tormentor, the Pistol
This is the only Plasma Weapon that is actually fine. It is a Short-Range Cannon.

TL;DR:
Slow-RoF Weapons like Executioner and Tormentor need Damage that carries over. The Drawbacks are currently too much, and Upgrading doesnt matter if your Damage is capped to the Enemies Shield.
Executioner also needs faster Projectiles to become a "Sniper".

 

[Bigmaec]

I disagree on the Intimidator, that's a really fine gun which complements my Aphelion very well.

The Executioner is scary, Sharpshooters are the only NPCs I'm afraid of. If the shots were just a tad bit faster, it would be op.

 

[Factabulous]

Executioner also needs faster Projectiles to become a "Sniper".

Nah. It works very well, even with my bad aim at higher grades it it pretty OP. Now where do I get the 'scope

 

[Lazerus Artificial]

Nah. It works very well, even with my bad aim at higher grades it it pretty OP. Now where do I get the 'scope

Sure it works very well, but not at its "effective range". There is no reason for it to have 100m, if you can barely even see Enemies at that Range. If atleast the "Greater Range" Mod would work...but nope

Scope is useless. I do have a Pistol with it, its pretty much just a Cosmetic.

 

[Factabulous]

Scope is useless. I do have a Pistol with it, its pretty much just a Cosmetic.

Ah - glad someone has it - if you could post some comparison screenshots on https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/weapon-mods-scope.579461/ I'm sure we would be interested

 

[Lazerus Artificial]

Ah - glad someone has it - if you could post some comparison screenshots on https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/weapon-mods-scope.579461/ I'm sure we would be interested

Yeah, give me a sec

 

[Bigmaec]

Sure it works very well, but not at its "effective range". There is no reason for it to have 100m, if you can barely even see Enemies at that Range. If atleast the "Greater Range" Mod would work...but nope

Scope is useless. I do have a Pistol with it, its pretty much just a Cosmetic.

Ah - glad someone has it - if you could post some comparison screenshots on https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/weapon-mods-scope.579461/ I'm sure we would be interested

What Facta says, Pics plz

 

[Factabulous]

Yeah, give me a sec

That would be cool - don't want to gimp my G5 executioner with something if it is worthless

 

[Lazerus Artificial]

That would be cool - don't want to gimp my G5 executioner with something if it is worthless

Here some Images.
There is a tiny bit of Zoom, but not as you would imagine it. Its not a "Scope". Also, as i said, its just ony my Pistol. The Executioner seems to have it integrated. There the "Scope" is supposed to just enhance it, not replace it with a "Sniper Scope"

 

[Ydiss]

It's the worst example of a Sniper weapon I've ever seen; bright, obvious tracer, slow moving projectile that can be dodged with a huge margin for error, a "scope" that's got less than 1.5x zoom.

It's no Sniper rifle but it is easily the most fun weapon for me and it's an utter beast. Over-damage is a problem though. I'm partly in agreement there. The 1% shield thing irks. I think that some bleed over damage is warranted where the target's remaining shield represents less less than 25% of the shot's damage total. And so the remaining damage should spill over, perhaps with slight mitigation, so single shot kills versus 1% shields is a reality.

The g5 damage is less important than the slots anyway. Though I might test it versus high intensity later... If it's 2 shots, probably worth it?

A rail gun with proper scope would be a better candidate as an actual Sniper.

Agree with the oppressor comments. Pointless weapon for me.

 

[Lazerus Artificial]

It's the worst example of a Sniper weapon I've ever seen; bright, obvious tracer, slow moving projectile that can be dodged with a huge margin for error, a "scope" that's got less than 1.5x zoom.

It's no Sniper rifle but it is easily the most fun weapon for me and it's an utter beast. Over-damage is a problem though. I'm partly in agreement there. The 1% shield thing irks. I think that some bleed over damage is warranted where the target's remaining shield represents less less than 25% of the shot's damage total. And so the remaining damage should spill over, perhaps with slight mitigation, so single shot kills versus 1% shields is a reality.

The g5 damage is less important than the slots anyway. Though I might test it versus high intensity later... If it's 2 shots, probably worth it?

A rail gun with proper scope would be a better candidate as an actual Sniper.

Agree with the oppressor comments. Pointless weapon for me.

Yeah, a Kinetic Sniper, a Railgun, that would be my Dream. Balance it through a Charge-Time if you want.
Or overall, a High-Precision Weapon for each Category. Railgun for Kinetic, and some kind of Semi-Auto Laser for Energy.

G5 can make a huge difference on any other Weapon. A G5 Laser Rifle is a Beast from what i heard which can kill with a single Clip without switching.
In its current form though its only unimportant for the Executioner. And even the Slots are not important as most of them have no real effect.

Audio Masking - Could be good
Faster Handling - Only really useful on Dominator
Greater Range - Currently no effect (100m -> 150m, no Speed increase)
Headshot Damage - Currently useless as it deals enough Damage already
Higher Accuracy - Currently useless as its very Accurate already
Magazine Size - I think 3 -> 6, so one of the better Choices
Noise Suppressor - Could be good
Reload Speed - Tried it on a Rocket Launcer. Not really good.
Scope - See Screenshots, not really useful with that Projectile Speed either
Stowed Reloading - Only really useful on Dominator

Even 100% Bleed Over would be fine. A G2 Executioner cant destroy a 3-Shield most of the time, because like 5% or less are left over. A G3 destroys it in one Hit, so it would still be a 2 Shot Kill, just with a bit of Health Damage on the first one.
A G5 could potentially Oneshot a "minor" Target with one Shield, and i cant see a Problem with that. You can easily kill them with a G1 Pistol, so why not a G5 Rifle?
So "Medium" and "High" Enemies would still require 2 or more Hits, even with a G5 i think.

 

[Kissamies]

Plasmas are my favourite so far because of how satisfying it is to hit with them. Especially the Excecutioner when I get the lead with a long range shot just right. Intimidator is fine for doing shotgun things, but I don't currently use it as much because mine is still G1. Opressor really feels too weak, but I'm open to the idea that I just need to git gud. Tormentor is excellent. It shall be the first weapon I make G5, I betcha.

 

[Koma Pahu]

Executioner, the "Long Range Plasma Rifle" or "Sniper" ... yeah it really is not.
100m effective Range?

I can hit at 225m, tested against my ship, I’m not the world’s greatest FPS player but it is usable at long range.

It’s not an ideal ‘sniper rifle’, I’ve lost count of the number of times my target has stepped out of the way before I’ve hit them.

Personally I think they’re quite well balanced with the other weapons. My normal play style suits the Eclipse/C-44 combo, but I can play successfully with an Executioner/Oppressor.

Edit: Over 225m is where it stops making contact.

 

[Shintai]

Faster shots on executioner, sure with a 75% dmg reduction maybe.

 

[Lazerus Artificial]

Faster shots on executioner, sure with a 75% dmg reduction maybe.

Would be totally fine, its current effective Range with 100m is weird anyway.
Give it for example a 50m effective range and faster projectiles, so it becomes possible to hit at long range, but not with 100% damage

I can hit at 225m, tested against my ship, I’m not the world’s greatest FPS player but it is usable at long range.

It’s not an ideal ‘sniper rifle’, I’ve lost count of the number of times my target has stepped out of the way before I’ve hit them.

Personally I think they’re quite well balanced with the other weapons. My normal play style suits the Eclipse/C-44 combo, but I can play successfully with an Executioner/Oppressor.

Edit: Over 225m is where it stops making contact.

Hitting a Ship really isnt the Problem. Its not an Anti-Ship Weapon though. But try to hit a moving, human sized Target at 100m or so.
Not only are they hard to see with this "Scope", its almost impossible because its so easy to sidestep that projectile.

 

[Koma Pahu]

Would be totally fine, its current effective Range with 100m is weird anyway.
Give it for example a 50m effective range and faster projectiles, so it becomes possible to hit at long range, but not with 100% damage

How are you defining effective range?

 

[Koma Pahu]

Would be totally fine, its current effective Range with 100m is weird anyway.
Give it for example a 50m effective range and faster projectiles, so it becomes possible to hit at long range, but not with 100% damage


Hitting a Ship really isnt the Problem. Its not an Anti-Ship Weapon though. But try to hit a moving, human sized Target at 100m or so.
Not only are they hard to see with this "Scope", its almost impossible because its so easy to sidestep that projectile.

Get better, there’s a skill to sniping.

I was aiming at targets that it couldn’t hit (over 225m) last night.

Side stepping is an issue, the AI seems to become aware of you as soon as you fire at them, and know exactly where you are even if hiding, but with a target running in to combat you can still hit them you just have to lead the target - like a real life sniper does.

 

[Lazerus Artificial]

Its listed in its Stats.

Unmodded its 100m. So i assume that after 100m it starts to loose Damage. This is just totally unrealistic as this is not its "engagement range".

Get better, there’s a skill to sniping.

I was aiming at targets that it couldn’t hit (over 225m) last night.

Side stepping is an issue, the AI seems to become aware of you as soon as you fire at them, and know exactly where you are even if hiding, but with a target running in to combat you can still hit them you just have to lead the target - like a real life sniper does.

"Get Good" yeah right. If i buy a Long Range Rifle, i expect to get a Long Range Rifle. This isnt. It is a Short-Mid Range Cannon.
The Laser-Rifle, that is more like a Long Range Rifle.

I have a Rocket Launcer with Audio Masking. Atleast the first Shot works and they are totally surprised and start searching

 

[Koma Pahu]

Its listed in its Stats.

Unmodded its 100m. So i assume that after 100m it starts to loose Damage. This is just totally unrealistic as this is not its "engagement range".

There is a fall off, but it still only takes 4 shots from a G2 to kill in a high CZ, due to the way shields work.

Real world testing...

 

[Lazerus Artificial]

There is a fall off, but it still only takes 4 shots from a G2 to kill in a high CZ, due to the way shields work.

Real world testing...

3-Shielders? Sounds about right. Still, for a Rifle that only has 33 Shots, 3 per Clip, that takes an eternity to Reload and has a high chance to Miss...thats too much.
Dont get me wrong, but it is really hard to miss in a CZ. Now what about PVP for example? Im not a PVP Player, but such a "Sniper" is absolutely useless there.
You could hit maybe once, after that your Target should take Cover (which means you cant hit anymore due to the large projectile), or worse, sees you, shoots you with a Hitscan Weapon and Dodges all of your slow moving Orbs.