Player-made scenarios need to be officially supported.

[RockandGrohl]

As a continuation of the other thread on the top of these forums "Scenarios... Who's going to play them?" I think this raises an important point, especially directed at new players who don't go on the forums, subreddit or Steam Workshop.

This game has legs, it's quite clear to see that Frontier isn't a cash and dash developer. But I fear that the Scenario Editor is a moot addition if the awesome creations that this community labour over go unnoticed.


When you launch Rollercoaster Tycoon, you are given three sets of scenarios "Beginner, Challenging, Expert" with multiple parks in each category.


Ideally, we need something similar for Planet Coasters front page. When the "Play" button is selected, "Scenarios" needs to be more prominent. But what Scenarios will be available?

I propose Frontier holds a competition where ten of the best scenarios are chosen to be included in the game. These will obviously be inspected and have a developer pass-over for quality checking, as well as determining the difficulty of the challenge. Frontier can give prizes out like signed poster or mousemats, a small goody-bag and some DLC. Stuff like that.

Then, every month, they can pick one additional park to add in to the original 10, bringing the total of custom scenarios to 22.


This will keep the game active on both the player and community side - officially sanctioned competitions will serve as a good catalyst to get people really creating for their name in the spotlight and material incentive from Frontier - by sending a goody bag through the post it's a low-cost marketing opportunity.

As a bonus the players will be able to choose from a variety of parks with more intricate challenges than the current offering in the base game.

 

[Helena]

Yes to this, but I want to extend it to include maybe 5-10 or more (depending on the frontier work) per month! It would be fantastic way to keep the game alive for the scenario career type players. ME!

The go-through is good so the player know it is good and not a troll/bad scenario and lose time.

Also, this would motivate me to make scneario as well! I wanted to join current contest but I do not have time for that. So maybe I might make toward something like this instead. I do not need prizes. The honor of being included is good enough for me.

 

[breezerHOG1]

When you launch Rollercoaster Tycoon, you are given three sets of scenarios "Beginner, Challenging, Expert" with multiple parks in each category.

Which RCT are you talking about, RCT2? cuz RCT1 had only 1 menu, and RCT3 had 3 menus for scenarios (1 for each expansion). Personally, I dont see a need for having multiple menus in Planet Coaster, at least not untill we get an expansion. The current scenarios are already listed as "easy medium hard" but I'd rather see them stay all together in 1 list, rather than being broken up into various sections. Also, if you play OpenRCT2 they have swapped the scenarios so that they are no longer listed as "easy medium and hard" but are now listed by expansion (as it should be)

Actually, I think its weird how the devs split up the scenarios in the main menu, like theres 3 scenarios per category but what do the categories actually mean? Maybe there could be a way for us to organize the scenarios ourselves?

I propose Frontier holds a competition where ten of the best scenarios are chosen to be included in the game.

Are you aware of the fact that there ALREADY is a contest going on for Scenarios? Its just not for 10 it will only have 1 winner. It takes time for Frontier to turn a "custom scenario" into an official one, and I'd rather them not waste their time doing 10 when it really would add nothing to the game. What does it matter if the scenario is in the menu or downloaded via steam? The only difference is you get a star for playing official scenarios. https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/30286-Cause-a-Scene!-Custom-Scenario-Competition

Then, every month, they can pick one additional park to add in to the original 10, bringing the total of custom scenarios to 22.

Do you realize how much work that would be for the devs, testing each scenario to make sure its good? If you added 10 new scenarios every month, by the end of the year you would have 150+ scenarios, we really dont need the games main menu to be clutterred up like that, especially since not all fanmade scenarios are that great. How about we wait a couple months to see what amazing stuff we have first. Again, go check out the "Cause a Scene" contest that frontier is already holding right now.

This will keep the game active on both the player and community side - officially sanctioned competitions will serve as a good catalyst to get people really creating for their name in the spotlight and material incentive from Frontier - by sending a goody bag through the post it's a low-cost marketing opportunity.

I mean, if you want you can hold your own contests, or maybe another community member will do the same, shyguys world holds contests all the time, so does Jonny5Alive. I dont think the devs should be worrying about this, I'd rather see them working on a ful expansion to the game. Just imagine if we ever get expansions like Planet Lagoon or Planet Safari, I am sure each of those will have their own unique scenarios to play

As a bonus the players will be able to choose from a variety of parks with more intricate challenges than the current offering in the base game.

This is already possible by downloading scenarios from the workshop, adding them into the menu changes nothing.

Personally, I would be a lot happier if the devs could implement some sort of organizing feature so that I can create folders to place my saved files into and organize them how I want to.

 

[Bo Marit]

As interesting as this idea is, breezerHOG really hits the nail on the head here with regards to developer time and the purpose of the Workshop.

It would simply be too taxing on both the game engine (filling up the game like that would result in continuous updates for people to download and lower-end machines to not function properly) and the team and their efforts.
I did look into it being a prize for the winning entry for the Cause a Scene competition, but it was not possible at this time.

The Scenario Editor is a great game feature which gives players the power to create their own scenarios and share it on Workshop. With all that functionality in place, we feel it's a great addition to people's gameplay, should they want to use it. It's all the tools we have in house as well, so there should be loads of challenging scenarios for people to have fun with.

Hope this helps,
[heart]
Bo

 

[Helena]

I understand. I just thought if you were able to, in similar vein to the workshop features but I can see why it is more demanding because of the trial runs as opposed of "simply" plopping down blueprints and see it is all ok.

Then we will just do it ourselves instead. I think eventually there might be curated collections of verified good scenarios.

 

[Scott.]

As interesting as this idea is, breezerHOG really hits the nail on the head here with regards to developer time and the purpose of the Workshop.

It would simply be too taxing on both the game engine (filling up the game like that would result in continuous updates for people to download and lower-end machines to not function properly) and the team and their efforts.
I did look into it being a prize for the winning entry for the Cause a Scene competition, but it was not possible at this time.

The Scenario Editor is a great game feature which gives players the power to create their own scenarios and share it on Workshop. With all that functionality in place, we feel it's a great addition to people's gameplay, should they want to use it. It's all the tools we have in house as well, so there should be loads of challenging scenarios for people to have fun with.

Hope this helps,
[heart]
Bo

The problem I see with scenarios in the workshop is thus.

If you download a ride/building/scene etc you can gauge how good it is by how it looks in the pictures or it's rating, and even if it isn't all that great when you place it, then it can be simply deleted.

Now with custom scenarios yes the pictures might give you a feel for the scenario, the description might really grab you but in reality until you open it up and start playing you won't really know. It's not so easy to back out, search the workshop and start the process again. It takes time to find good scenarios.

Yes there is the star rating system but in reality this is only ever going to increase the popularity and air time for feature creators leaving lots of unknown park builders scenarios never getting touched and thus people will stop making them rendering a huge part of the game pointless and unfulfilling to players.

This is just my take and not a criticism but I really do have concerns of this feature.

 

[ojonas]

The problem I see with scenarios in the workshop is thus.

If you download a ride/building/scene etc you can gauge how good it is by how it looks in the pictures or it's rating, and even if it isn't all that great when you place it, then it can be simply deleted.

Now with custom scenarios yes the pictures might give you a feel for the scenario, the description might really grab you but in reality until you open it up and start playing you won't really know. It's not so easy to back out, search the workshop and start the process again. It takes time to find good scenarios.

Yes there is the star rating system but in reality this is only ever going to increase the popularity and air time for feature creators leaving lots of unknown park builders scenarios never getting touched and thus people will stop making them rendering a huge part of the game pointless and unfulfilling to players.

This is just my take and not a criticism but I really do have concerns of this feature.

How about just letting it play out with self-moderation? The good scenarios will get good ratings and attract more players. Same as with any blueprint or other asset for this and most other Steam games. If the scenario is good people will come.

A question to ask yourself is, who are you making the scenarios for? If you are making them in order to gain fame because a lot of people play them, then I think you are in it for the wrong reasons (my opinion). If you are making them for yourself or to share with your friends which I think it mostly will be used for, then it is a different ballgame.

There are enough very talented people playing Planet Coaster for us not to have to worry about any shortage of good scenarios to play (if that is your playing style). There will also be a lot of crap scenarios being made as well (just as you can find in all workshops for any other game on Steam). It will self control over time.

No need to worry about this in my opinion.

 

[Chems]

How about just letting it play out with self-moderation? The good scenarios will get good ratings and attract more players. Same as with any blueprint or other asset for this and most other Steam games. If the scenario is good people will come.

A question to ask yourself is, who are you making the scenarios for? If you are making them in order to gain fame because a lot of people play them, then I think you are in it for the wrong reasons (my opinion). If you are making them for yourself or to share with your friends which I think it mostly will be used for, then it is a different ballgame.

There are enough very talented people playing Planet Coaster for us not to have to worry about any shortage of good scenarios to play (if that is your playing style). There will also be a lot of crap scenarios being made as well (just as you can find in all workshops for any other game on Steam). It will self control over time.

No need to worry about this in my opinion.

Agreed.

The scenario editor is a very recent addition to the game. Give it some time and more dedicated scenario communities will form.

 

[RockandGrohl]

As interesting as this idea is, breezerHOG really hits the nail on the head here with regards to developer time and the purpose of the Workshop.

It would simply be too taxing on both the game engine (filling up the game like that would result in continuous updates for people to download and lower-end machines to not function properly) and the team and their efforts.
I did look into it being a prize for the winning entry for the Cause a Scene competition, but it was not possible at this time.

The Scenario Editor is a great game feature which gives players the power to create their own scenarios and share it on Workshop. With all that functionality in place, we feel it's a great addition to people's gameplay, should they want to use it. It's all the tools we have in house as well, so there should be loads of challenging scenarios for people to have fun with.

Hope this helps,
[heart]
Bo

I was thinking more of curation of content. So in terms of picking the one a month, I don't mean getting 20-30 guys to download as many as they can. Rather, seeing what rises to the top of the pile naturally and then seeing if it's got the chops to go in the game.

I don't think there's much of a demand in terms of hard-drive space. It is much the same as subscribing to a blueprint after all - something you can do seamlessly in game (which is dope)

What I'm foreseeing is brilliant scenarios falling into obscurity because there isn't any decent way to get exposure - someone pre-emptively explained this in another reply by saying the problem with workshop content is that genuinely good stuff gets ignored in favour of people who get all their friends to rate their content.


Scenario Editor is a great and robust tool, it seems a waste to save it for small inner-circles of the community who share content. Having the content featured in a spotlight with a seal of approval is what this game needs. In fact, Valve does this with Team Fortress 2 items (weapons, maps and cosmetics are user-made) and CS:GO (Maps like Cache are user made)


I fear you and BreezerHOG misunderstood me. I am well aware of the time and effort it takes to create content. I am also aware curating content is still time-intensive. I was wondering if it was worthwhile to have an additional mode where the very best user-made scenarios are kept in an easy-to-access library instead of being swamped by other content in the workshop.

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If you are making them in order to gain fame because a lot of people play them, then I think you are in it for the wrong reasons (my opinion).

Speak to literally anyone who makes user-generated content for games like Skyrim, CS:GO, Team Fortress 2 etc. They do it for the passion and they do it to get noticed.

 

[breezerHOG1]

What I'm foreseeing is brilliant scenarios falling into obscurity because there isn't any decent way to get exposure - someone pre-emptively explained this in another reply by saying the problem with workshop content is that genuinely good stuff gets ignored in favour of people who get all their friends to rate their content.

I dont know what people expect about this, its true for anything. If your a musician and you want to be seen you have to advertise yourself, if you dont do that then you dont get seen. Same goes for creations in this game, want to be seen? Advertise your work, post it on the forums, on reddit, on youtube, have Jonny5Alive do a video for you if you dont know how. Some people say thats not good enough, that its still not fair, but I dont know what else could possibly be done. You cant just create something and expect it to magically reach the top of the list without any likes

The devs are already holding a scenario contest. If you want, maybe you could keep track of the best scenarios and make a list of your favorite top 10 or 20 and explain why you picked the ones you picked and not others. Maybe make a guide on what a good scenario needs and what makes a bad scenario. [up]

 

[ojonas]

Speak to literally anyone who makes user-generated content for games like Skyrim, CS:GO, Team Fortress 2 etc. They do it for the passion and they do it to get noticed.

Well, same as with everything else in the real world; if you are good enough at something you will get noticed. If not, practice more. There are no free lunches in life.

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I fear you and BreezerHOG misunderstood me. I am well aware of the time and effort it takes to create content. I am also aware curating content is still time-intensive. I was wondering if it was worthwhile to have an additional mode where the very best user-made scenarios are kept in an easy-to-access library instead of being swamped by other content in the workshop.

Isn't that the whole point with the rating system in Steam's workshop? Good stuff get good ratings and bad stuff get bad or no rating. It is a self curating platform. Why do you think the "very best" scenarios would be forgotten? If they are the very best, they will also be downloaded and played the most. Who says what is the very best besides what the majority likes? How do you suggest you would "resolve this problem"?

 

[Helena]

The problem with rating is that popular people get noticed, the eternal carousel of workshop page thing = circulating already popular people's stuff.

But hopefully eventually also the lesser known will get rated good and.. well. Also, curated collections. hopefully there will be good collections not only those worthless "see here's my collection of my stuff" (I think those are silly because there's workshop pages of individual members already )

But again, I guess it is a matter of time. [up]

 

[Fishook]

Once the competition has finished I reckon you are going to have a good starting point for user created scenarios, it still early days at the moment. I am looking for newer ideas rather than RCT maps remade. There are loads of lovely user created parks which are just pure resource hogs even om my high rig. So Bo hit the nail on the head reguarding moderation.

You only need 3-5 high quality creators doing a park a month to keep a lot of scenario players happy bunnies. As its quite a user friendly tool compared to other games, but it needs time for people to get the gameplay balance right. Even I could create a nice scenario given the time as it requires no programming skills whatsoever, just hard work and playtesting.

 

[Helena]

happy bunny! [heart]

(I still think PlanCo should have Bunny mascot... )

 

[Scott.]

How about just letting it play out with self-moderation? The good scenarios will get good ratings and attract more players. Same as with any blueprint or other asset for this and most other Steam games. If the scenario is good people will come.

On what evidence is this going to be the case? Because I'm confident to say this is not going to be the case. Just look at the blueprints for scenery etc. There are so many amazing blueprints that don't get recognised, rated, downloaded as they are at the back of pages and pages of creations. Secondly people are less likely to play unrated scenarios based on my point about the time it will take for people to launch the scenario before they really know if its anygood. Instead I sumise people will flock to prerated scenarios as they know they are worth playing and the cycle will continue with the continued exposure frontier gives to its select streamers.

A question to ask yourself is, who are you making the scenarios for? If you are making them in order to gain fame because a lot of people play them, then I think you are in it for the wrong reasons (my opinion). If you are making them for yourself or to share with your friends which I think it mostly will be used for, then it is a different ballgame.

Again to address this point I'm not making them for fame... LOL Planet Coaster famous woot. I would create them out of enjoyment but I can do that in a sandbox park, what insentive do i have to make scenarios over a sandbox park? If I was to create a scenario and it falls into the abyis, thats deflating who ever you are and people wont bother creating more. I dont have friend who play planet coaster. So yea I could post my scenarios on the forum (which is quiet btw) where they will go untouched just like the workshop. Go look at the scenario sub section and see the lack of replies on peoples creations.

There are enough very talented people playing Planet Coaster for us not to have to worry about any shortage of good scenarios to play (if that is your playing style). There will also be a lot of crap scenarios being made as well (just as you can find in all workshops for any other game on Steam). It will self control over time.

Thats fine and all and you're right. There are pleanty of tallented players out there, so why release a scenario update as such a big thing when it will only benefit a select few? My issue isnt with the lack of quality scenarios its about the volume of quality scenarios to the point a lot of peoples hard work and effort go un noticed.

No need to worry about this in my opinion.

This is all my own opinion of course whether you agree or not. I could just sit here like most the fan boys and say well done frontier, what an excellent feature you've just launched. But I won't, nothing ever got better, ever by doing that. IMO there is a whole shed load of features, QOL improvements that should of been implimented before custom scenarios. But hey thats me.

 

[breezerHOG1]

There are so many amazing blueprints that don't get recognised, rated, downloaded as they are at the back of pages and pages of creations.

I am a pretty big fan of this game, I watch almost all of Channel5s videos. I think it sucks that he gains the views and youtube ads, for other peoples creations, but hes the one making the videos. I try to watch other players videos too, often times I do not like the way Jonny5 records his videos as he doesnt always get things working perfect, so I try to watch the original creators videos too. I have also seen a lot of content via the workshop, but its not as interesting to search the workshop, so I mainly find things on forums like here, or reddit, etc. Nobody can never possibly go through the entire workshop to see every little thing, and thats why the top rated stuff will always be by people who create videos. Videos gain way more attention because people who dont own the game can still enjoy the video.

Secondly people are less likely to play unrated scenarios based on my point about the time it will take for people to launch the scenario before they really know if its anygood. Instead I sumise people will flock to prerated scenarios as they know they are worth playing and the cycle will continue with the continued exposure frontier gives to its select streamers.

I think this comes down to who puts in the most effort to describe their park in the description. If I see a picture of a cool park but it has no description, I might not download it. On the contrary, if the park has lots of pictures and little details, then its more likely to gain attention.

Awhat insentive do i have to make scenarios over a sandbox park? If I was to create a scenario and it falls into the abyis, thats deflating who ever you are and people wont bother creating more. I dont have friend who play planet coaster. So yea I could post my scenarios on the forum (which is quiet btw) where they will go untouched just like the workshop. Go look at the scenario sub section and see the lack of replies on peoples creations.

they are still new, and they take time to get a good full park made, especially if you want to put a lot of detail in. People are also probably waiting for the contest deadline.

Thats fine and all and you're right. There are pleanty of tallented players out there, so why release a scenario update as such a big thing when it will only benefit a select few?

I see the scenario editor as being more capable of allowing advanced features that you can not have in sandbox mode. You can choose to not add any objectives to your scenario, set money to unlimited, and play as if its still sandbox. Its just another set of tools with a new name, and its not a bad thing to have.

My issue isnt with the lack of quality scenarios its about the volume of quality scenarios to the point a lot of peoples hard work and effort go un noticed.

thats life, didnt I already explain the same thing happens with art and music and movies? we have a game that lets you choose to place a single rock and call it a blueprint or even a scenario, but thats the beauty of a game thats fully customizable and creative.

This is all my own opinion of course whether you agree or not. I could just sit here like most the fan boys and say well done frontier, what an excellent feature you've just launched. But I won't, nothing ever got better, ever by doing that. IMO there is a whole shed load of features, QOL improvements that should of been implimented before custom scenarios. But hey thats me.

I try to talk about other improvements all the time

 

[RockandGrohl]

To be fair I think Scott and I are on the same page. It's a good addition to the game, but we currently see a cycle of the same creators featured on the Workshop with a certain air of cronyism - I am not begruding this at all and don't make content to get famous, I make content because I want people to play and experience it.

The problem comes where unless you make a banging park and bleat about it for ages, nothing will happen. There's not really a good enough system to let the cream rise to the top. There is no real definition of wheat and chaff.

What I proposed was quite simple and entirely reasonable. Let the players manage it for a while, let the good parks rise to the top, but when they are there, Frontier should get a couple people to play the parks, see if the objectives are reasonable, see if there's anything that shouldn't be in there (profanity or lewdness) see if there's any areas that need some polish (maybe a broken path?) and then highlight it on the game's frontpage.


I agree that Frontier could not and should not by any circumstance sit there poring over 10, 20, 30 parks every month trying to find a good one. This was not what I suggested at all. Let the wheat separate from the chaff then inspect the wheat and put it out there. That's what I suggest.

 

[LN]

To be fair I think Scott and I are on the same page. It's a good addition to the game, but we currently see a cycle of the same creators featured on the Workshop with a certain air of cronyism - I am not begruding this at all and don't make content to get famous, I make content because I want people to play and experience it.

I feel the same way, but that's the same reason whyI don't really worry about whatever happens on the Workshop.

I don't upload to get fame, I upload because I like what I build. If others like it to they will notice it somehow. If not, I'm not bothered.
People are only hurting their own ego if they get upset about a low number of subscribers.

there already is a rating system there, but nobody uses it. So that's the problem.

 

[breezerHOG1]

Rock is there any specific scenarios that are currently available on the workshop that stand out to you? Or have you not looked at enough of them to have found a favorite yet?

 

[ojonas]

There are already multiple wayt to raite workshop stuff and they can be sorted in different time limits (week, month, 3 month, 6 months all time etc.). This can be done for both rating and popularity (I assume that corresponds to downloads). If people do not use the existing rating systems today, what else can really be done? After all, all ratings are managed by us, the users.