Elite / Frontier Playing Elite Ships In Other Space Sims

Alien

Alien
I have started a discussion on Egosoft's forum about using models of the Elite ships in their game X3TC. Several clever people have made models of various ships from several franchises including Star Wars and Star Trek.

However, Elite ships are notably absent. There is a reason being repeated that Frontier won't grant permission for someone to make a model of any Elite ship.

Take a look at the thread and see what you think:
http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=293064&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

I'd like to ask someone at Frontier the following:
1) Has anyone ever asked for permission to create models of the Elite ships to use in another game?
2) Would you be willing to grant permission and if not, what would be the reason?
3) How does Oolite (and others) not breach copyright? Do they have permission (not that it's any of my business, but I am curious).

And to everyone who plays X3TC, would you like to see the Elite ships in X3TC?
 

SuperG

S
Alien said:
I have started a discussion on Egosoft's forum about using models of the Elite ships in their game X3TC. Several clever people have made models of various ships from several franchises including Star Wars and Star Trek.

However, Elite ships are notably absent. There is a reason being repeated that Frontier won't grant permission for someone to make a model of any Elite ship.

Take a look at the thread and see what you think:
http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=293064&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

I'd like to ask someone at Frontier the following:
1) Has anyone ever asked for permission to create models of the Elite ships to use in another game?
2) Would you be willing to grant permission and if not, what would be the reason?
3) How does Oolite (and others) not breach copyright? Do they have permission (not that it's any of my business, but I am curious).

And to everyone who plays X3TC, would you like to see the Elite ships in X3TC?
Click to expand...

1 Elite/Frontier space game is a very old franchise with noting made, far from the last treesome generations of latest hardware. It's Retrogaming. What gen Mode-X 320x240 ? And before that.
2 egosoft X series is made for up to the prevois of previous gen. DX9 wich means it is getting old. But much fresher then that Elite Retro franchise.
3 Xseries gamers most might be well known with modern TV series and movies and space games with high polygone models then compared to Elite. Most wanted models are TV show models. This is totaly different aim then retro gaming. And with there very low polygon model.
4 most modern gamers look forward and are of a age where they didn't exist in the golden age of frontier Elite.
5 I geuss the demand for it is very low besides some hardcore Elite fans who play X series to.

If Elite 4 comes in 2013 to 2016.
The models get a extreem high poligon overhaul beyond what modern space games can offer. For budged to midrange DX12 hardware and nextgen consoles Xbox3 or PS4 or even Xbox4 and PS5

What I like to see is every stargate ship including the Destiny and gate seeder ships. And Atlantis as a HQ.
Battlestar galactica remake ships.

Those modeX days are over for me.

So if they put Elite ships in egosoft game. The artist need to estimate a lot of high detail for thos low poly models to Xseries standards.

Elite models are low poly because of hardware limits back then.
So Elitefans could do High poly remakes in the spirit of Elite 4 as a xseries mod.
 

gunbladelad

gunbladelad
I'm not familiar with that game, personally, but I would love to see the Elite & Frontier ships in a Freelancer Mod.

I do know it certainally won't happen in the Discovery Mod - they're phasing out all the ships that refer to other games & Sci-Fi shows/films for the next release.
 

Gibbon

Gibbon
gunbladelad said:
I would love to see the Elite & Frontier ships in a Freelancer Mod.
Click to expand...

You mean like these?

ELITEshipsmontage2.jpg
 

gunbladelad

gunbladelad
Nice pic. (The Viper Mk II doesn't match up with FFE's though, lol)

Are they taken from a Freelancer mod? If so, which one?
 

Gibbon

Gibbon
These are loosely based on the original models obviously remodelled and new textures added by a friend of mine. It's an Elite ship pack being released shortly
 

Gibbon

Gibbon
Yes there is, well a forum actually where i will post the download details once it's complete

Gizmo Studios : http://gizmostudios.proboards.com/index.cgi

In the meantime here's a little video of the Coriolis Space Station in Freelancer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgunOsPTdRY&feature=player_embedded

@SuperG

I disagree that high poly models are the way to go. In a multiplayer environment all it does is add lag. While i admit the ships in the ship pack i'm doing are low poly (around 1000) for each model, it's the textures that make them look good and give the feel of the designs.

Taking this thought further, i very much doubt you need to go above 25k polys on a model if it's textured right, i've seen incredile textures on models of that size and you can't tell the difference between those and high poly examples. Nobody needs every pipe and rivet modelled in exquisite detail when a good texture does the same thing. You are forgetting that nobody is going to examine each and every ship in game, they are flying past them at speed and battling them, it's not about modelling them in detail, it's about a useable model in game with good textures. Least from where i sit.
 
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Geraldine

Geraldine
Wonderful Gibbon! :) This will make another worthy addition to Freelancer. Thank you for posting this. I will let the good folks on the SSC know about your mod. :cool:
 

SuperG

S
Gibbon said:
I disagree that high poly models are the way to go. In a multiplayer environment all it does is add lag. While i admit the ships in the ship pack i'm doing are low poly (around 1000) for each model, it's the textures that make them look good and give the feel of the designs.
Click to expand...
Your so wrong. Lag has to do with net code. The data send aren't ship instances complete with 3D content and textures. But more object position and state and input synchronasation. The GFX are stored client side and thus local.
If they send the polys trough to every gamer your fps would be 0.0000001 or somethin in that direction.
Lot's of object with complex state diagrams could flood net code.
We go online with 4 PS3 trough ADSL.
Taking this thought further, i very much doubt you need to go above 25k polys on a model if it's textured right, i've seen incredile textures on models of that size and you can't tell the difference between those and high poly examples.
Click to expand...
Well the models look very spartan, simplefied, very pure, with modern basic texturing. Modern use is shader effects isntead texturing.
Well I used to modern scifi shows and space ship games where ships doesn't need to look like primitives or just a tad more complex. But are with decent depth in detail and can have curved features. And something bigger then a fighter. With turrets etc.
Nobody needs every pipe and rivet modelled in exquisite detail when a good texture does the same thing.
Click to expand...
Well I rather see turrets that looks like turrets instead geussing it might be a turret there.
You are forgetting that nobody is going to examine each and every ship in game, they are flying past them at speed and battling them, it's not about modelling them in detail, it's about a useable model in game with good textures. Least from where i sit.
Click to expand...
Your forget that most gamers went on after Elite and played clones and modern space games. And also games based on scifi IP like starwars startrek etc.
We are use to spaceships seen in TV shows.

We also played games using a capitalship gamplay instead agile inertia dampened fighter. Games where you can enjoy the looks and detail of a game.

The first thing I did in X2 was a flyby pass a Titan cruiser of 1km long. That was awsome. And that a small one the larges of a other species is 5km.
And some species uses organic lookin curved ships. Realy cool.

Well if you stick with this retro stuff you missing something.
I truly belief that frontier will also attract current gamers wich have at least something dX9 or higher.

I wonder what DB will do on new ship design. They have to deal with the leapfrog of a giant step passing a decade in to a period you can have 100 fold compexity with twice the performace and that even online.
Very cool shader effect and LOD testalation.

Even if DB getting to conservative it still a large step forward.

Ofcourse Elite fans no nothing more then that there ships are this way. So the aim for this retro style.
Well Elite 4 could be very different. And all current known ships can get a extreem overhaul and some new onces.
 

Gibbon

Gibbon
SuperG said:
Well the models look very spartan, simplefied, very pure, with modern basic texturing. Modern use is shader effects isntead texturing.
Click to expand...

Textures still need to be applied

SuperG said:
Well I rather see turrets that looks like turrets instead geussing it might be a turret there.
Click to expand...

I never said turrets shouldn't be there. I'm talking about the really fine details that some people incorporate into their models, piping, etc. These can all be applied with a good texture.

SuperG said:
We are use to spaceships seen in TV shows.
Click to expand...

Elite or any of the later versions were nothing to do with TV shows. You may be used to tv scifi but Elite based itself on good ship concepts and game design. X3 is another example of nothing to do with a tv show yet it also has a loyal following due primarily to good ship design with models that are not overly high on the poly count.

SuperG said:
Well if you stick with this retro stuff you missing something.
Click to expand...

Define missing something. If you mean the ship pack i'm making then you're sadly mistaken there, as i have a lot of interest in it due to older players remembering Elite in the first place, plus younger players wondering what all the fuss is about.

If you don't mean the ship pack, then what is wrong with a bit of retro gaming? I'm not an EVE person, too complicated and as much fun as digging the garden imho. Complicated isn't always the best thing. Not everyone craves complexity.


SuperG said:
Ofcourse Elite fans no nothing more then that there ships are this way. So the aim for this retro style.
Well Elite 4 could be very different. And all current known ships can get a extreem overhaul and some new onces.
Click to expand...

This statement just annoys me as you seem to think Elite players play nothing else. Yes, we are fans of Elite otherwise we wouldn't be here so some of the classic craft from the original game bring back fond memories, no question there. You going to say next that Star Wars fans know nothing else either just because they watched the movie? C'mon, we all play different games here, one man's Freelancer is another man's Call of Duty. We just happen to like Elite and it's sequels as well.

DB is no fool, he knows the task in front of him, plenty of games to use as a benchmark which i'm sure he's seen or even played to see what the fuss is about. I could give an endless list really but he knows i'm sure. The latest all singing all dancing effects i'm sure will be present, but it's not all about capships 5 miles long, and micro management of systems. There are games out there that already cater for that and if that's your bag, then carry on. The Elite series was never about that, and i for one am hoping that little tradition will carry on.


@spacegamer

This will just be a ship pack for freelancer that modders can add to current mods if they wish. Doing an Elite style mod for Freelancer is doable up to a point, but there are features in Elite that cannot as yet (to my knowledge at least) be implemented in FL due to game engine contraints.
 
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gunbladelad

gunbladelad
I have to agree that there are many limitations in Freelancer's game engine, but it is one of the few space shooters (I say shooter rather than sim because of the ingame physics) that still has an active following.

It sounds great that this'll be a mod for Freelancer. Will it actually add them (as Discovery adds it's own ships), or will they be reskins of the normal Freelancer ships?

I assume you're already planning on making it fully compatable with FLMM?
 

Gibbon

Gibbon
They can't be reskins of freelancer models as they are standalone models, refer to images on previous page.

I was planning to put them in a ship pack so players can do what they want with them, hardpoint them, place them on planets of their choice and so on. Basic hardpoints, cockpits and lightmaps will be included as standard. Reason i want to do it this way is so players can adjust them how they want them
 

Gibbon

Gibbon
Yes that's quite right, they were made by Griff who gave me permission to convert them to Freelancer before anyone says anything, unlike some people i actually asked first, instead of ripping the guy off.
 
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