Newcomer / Intro Please fix the game... :(

Andersom · Jan 28, 2015

I've been playing Elite for about 3 weeks now, Started small and been trading my way up through various ships until I finally got an ASP. 6 million credits takes a bit of playing in solo mode to afford.

So tonight I take my fully loaded out ASP out for a trade run. I got interdicted along the way and thought "great finally some combat action to test my loaded ASP on". A few minutes later and I'm staring at the bankrupt screen. Yep I had a full load of expensive ore and a stupid ship with NO shields rams me with my full A5 shields up and I blow up???

Losing a 6 million credit ship with about 8 million plus in upgrades to a tiny ship ramming me is insane.

I've been playing space sims for 25 plus years now and never seen a lack of a saved game to go back to especially in solo mode.

My only options are to declare bankruptcy or start over with the beginner ship? I've got 8 million in ship upgrades and my credit limit is 200,000 credits???

Are you kidding me????

This is really messed up and a game ender for me. No way I'm going to scratch back from a tiny ship to where I was until this gets fixed.

What a waste of time and money on my part.

Massively disappointed in a most promising game.

Please fix the ramming and obvious flaws in the collision mechanics.

Please allow for more options to save and or restore previous saves or at least a more reasonable credit structure.

This is ridiculous I feel ripped off.

Triptamine · Jan 28, 2015

Insurance companies are filthy rich for one very good reason.

cmdr lowest · Jan 28, 2015

Never take a new ship out unless you have the credits to buy it back. Space is dangerous.

gooddoc · Jan 28, 2015

Iv also traded my way through the ships to get me my Asp & one thing that i learnt from the start of the game, through reading the forums is...MUST KEEP ENOUGH CREDIT FOR THE INSURANCE!!!...yes iv done a couple of trading runs & used up all my credits in goods & flown to next system on my knees preying (no interdictions PLEASE!), but i did that rarely & got away with it when i did it. Now iv got a Cobra parked & an ASP that im still upgrading with a current insurance bill of nearly 900k CRs, which i can easily afford as i go off exploring for a few days.

As with RL insurance...youre out of pocket either way cmdr!

cmdr lowest · Jan 28, 2015

That's also a good point.

Never trade in a decent ship as a part-exchange either. If you become fond of a ship, keep it. You can always re-jig it for combat/mining for variety.

I have my Cobra sitting in a station when I fancy a change from trading in my T6. Multiple ships are the way to go, then you'll never have to start from scratch again.

Aleksej · Jan 28, 2015

The only difference between Solo and Open is that you do not meet other players and you can switch between the modes whenever you like.

You had a ship 14M Cr worth, i.e. insurance costs were about 700k Cr, given 200k Cr loan having about 500k Cr should have been enough to pay the insurance. You had a choice to trade less commodities and to leave extra for insurance or take the risk and invest everything in commodities. You've chosen to take the risk meaning that you should have been extra careful.

Combat is always a risk and in most cases can be avoided, especially if you are dealing with NPCs. You have taken the risk to engage in combat, knowing that your balance would not allow you to pay insurance. As the collision happened during combat I assume that it was a head on collision at the combined velocity of over 300m/s. Given the ships' masses that's a lot of energy during the impact meaning that it was unlikely that any of the ships would survive.

ghostookami · Jan 28, 2015

Its not going to be fixed, because it was designed that way on purpose, it tells your directly under the amount of credits you have, how much your buy back cost is, for a reason.

Ian Skippy · Jan 28, 2015

Sorry to hear you've lost it all, that is painfull. However, to summarize your story:

1) Take risk
2) Can't handle outcome
3) Feel ripped off

Sorry to say, but you ripped yourself off. Just a little less cargo and you would have been 100% safe no matter what. Instead of asking this game to be even easier and more forgiving of mistakes, just show some restraint and caution. Always have 3x insurance in reserve. As for ramming: no matter how big your spaceship (or RL aircraft!) is, if you get hit head-one you're gone. Something to do with speed, mass and energy. There are many, many more ways to die, some of them can come seemingly out of the blue. So prepare and keep your ship insured. Or not, gamling all you have for increased profit is perfectly fine as long as you are willing to face the consequences.

ninyule · Jan 28, 2015

Have I just been lucky, or is running away from an interdiction easy?? Just submit by throttling back to 0 , full pips to engines, boost a couple of times, then frame shift away. This has worked for me every single time...

Ian Skippy · Jan 28, 2015

ninyule said:
Have I just been lucky, or is running away from an interdiction easy?? Just submit by throttling back to 0 , full pips to engines, boost a couple of times, then frame shift away. This has worked for me every single time...

It generally speaking is. Especially if you have decent shields and a shield cell bank, you cant fail in that situation. Maybe add some missile racks, boost, flip around with FA-off and pepper them while your FSD is spooling. On the other hand, going shieldless and trying to outrun the pirate while screaming"It is not fair!" might have worse outcomes.

Depending on your ship 4pips in engines isnt very usefull btw. In a Tx you'll be caught up with anyway in no-time, and shields are not linearly related to number of pips while engine thrust is. So 4E/2S gets you way less performance in total compared withj 4S/2E. Devs mentioned they will eventually fix it, as right now you either have 0 or 4 pips in sys, 1-3 is fairly pointless as it stands.

Oh, when it comes to pirate cmdrs: the really skilled pvp guys don't target traders. Pirates either don't want to shoot you (i.e. real pirates who want your cargo) or they want to just randomly kill traders because it is easy (the usual sociopaths). The second type is ofcourse where the danger is. Luckily, these kind of cowards generally go for gimballed weapons (if they had the skill for fixed they would not enjoy such easy targets), so bring a chaff. With 30 ammo you have a few minutes distraction, enough to finish your beer, check your cargo hold for trumbles, paint a portrait of your mother and write your auto-biography before spooling your drive.

andyraptor · Jan 28, 2015

The thing is.... after 25 years experience. ... do you feel a little bit silly for taking such a big risk on your first runout in your nice new multi million pound ship ?

...... oh... and can I have your stuff

Ian Phillips · Jan 28, 2015

The game is working as it is supposed to.
That it can sometimes be brutally unforgiving is true to type, as a mistake in deep space is going to get you killed.
Vice versa, escaping a situation by the skin of your teeth is an experience to be savoured!

Skip Intro · Jan 28, 2015

Major Flaw: Flying without insurance.
Major Flaw: Lack of understanding regarding saved game.
Major Flaw: Entering combat with full cargo load.
Major Flaw: Getting rammed then complaining about collision mechanics.

None of these flaws are the fault of the game.

ReaperAlex · Jan 28, 2015

if you do decide to get back on the horse i'd strongly recommend not selling every ship you upgrade from. that way if your cash does get too low to cover an insurance payout you can swap to a cheaper ship for a while until you have enough funds again.

this is probably the first time you've realised there is a limit on the loan, and it's a surprise that catches many out. i'm sure i saw a post about a possible change to this credit limit, but that could take a while before it hits game, if ever.

the other thing you can try is unticking the modules to see if you can get the total cost low enough to at least buy back the ship

it's a harsh lesson, but once learnt it does add a new dynamic to the game, constantly deciding if you can get that new upgrade now or if you should wait a little longer in case it leaves you short on cash for an insurance claim.

jabokai · Jan 28, 2015

Skip Intro said:
Major Flaw: Getting rammed then complaining about collision mechanics.

None of these flaws are the fault of the game.

I'd disagree with that one, the collision mechanics are not good at the moment. I believe I've read that they're being looked into though.

InMemoriamSirocco · Jan 28, 2015

Skip Intro said:
Major Flaw: Flying without insurance.
Major Flaw: Lack of understanding regarding saved game.
Major Flaw: Entering combat with full cargo load.
Major Flaw: Getting rammed then complaining about collision mechanics.

None of these flaws are the fault of the game.

All of this is valid. However, and here the OP is right: A small vessel ramming a much bigger vessel with a superior shield should not have a chance of popping it. And this is exactly what happens. THIS is a game flaw.

I got rammed by a completely shielded up Anaconda in boost speed and I was in an Asp Explorer. My shields went down and I lost 75% hull, but I survived.

That the OP could be taken out by a ramming Sidewinder or whatnot is troubling. There needs to be some logic behind the ramming mechanics.

Lupin · Jan 28, 2015

I am sorry to hear of your problem, I have been playing since release in December and I have had a few set backs. But learned the GOLDEN rule of INSURANCE.
This is one of only FEW games that carries a RISK when playing.

I wonder if a warning screen as you select launch telling you not enough INSURANCE would help.

Dr Zachary Smith · Jan 28, 2015

Never mind

Hope this cheers you up, and next time save enough wonga for insurance and new stock should the worst happen.

carlisle · Jan 28, 2015

Aleksej said:
The only difference between Solo and Open is that you do not meet other players and you can switch between the modes whenever you like.

You had a ship 14M Cr worth, i.e. insurance costs were about 700k Cr, given 200k Cr loan having about 500k Cr should have been enough to pay the insurance. You had a choice to trade less commodities and to leave extra for insurance or take the risk and invest everything in commodities. You've chosen to take the risk meaning that you should have been extra careful.

Combat is always a risk and in most cases can be avoided, especially if you are dealing with NPCs. You have taken the risk to engage in combat, knowing that your balance would not allow you to pay insurance. As the collision happened during combat I assume that it was a head on collision at the combined velocity of over 300m/s. Given the ships' masses that's a lot of energy during the impact meaning that it was unlikely that any of the ships would survive.

It's a good point, I've been getting a little bit of experience in combat... doing a lot of bounty hunting at Nav points and can usually polish off most ordinary NPCs without my shields dropping below 2 rings, so I'd like to think I'm pretty confident in the majority of interdiction events since they're usually not Dangerous Pythons. However I also still do a lot of trading, and I never mix the two... if I get interdicted I evade, and as a last resort submit and flee. Even if I see it's only a harmless Sidewinder with no shields, if I'm carrying cargo then engaging it isn't worth the risk.

Akavilyn · Jan 28, 2015

Losing an Asp hurts. I've done it myself. The game will knock you back to square one without a second thought if you're not careful, and that's just how it should be.

Get back in the Sidey, learn from the experience and don't upgrade to the next ship before you can afford to lose it.