Please fix turrets and LR engineering

[Broken_One]

Hello, So I was running some tests today with LR engineering. It started a while back because I play a type-10. In my imagination I can hear everyone say "FIXED IS MOST DPS" but it also necessitates a HOTAS setup and grade 5 drag drives and all that. -- That being said I am a believer that there should not be a single way to play. Turreted weapons, though taking a hit on DPS, have a longer time on target, which I should be ok with if I am flying My T-10 around. (which the T-10 is SUPPOSED to be a combat ship)

So I Put some turrets with LR engineering on them thinking that pirates and the like wouldnt be able to run away.

Low and behold, all they have to do is get 3k off and my turrets just stop shooting.

so I did some testing. It seems that the LR mod DOES apply in
Forward Fire mode.
In Target Only mode the cap is 3k
and in Fire at will something closer (idk it is too unpredictable. Maybe 2k or 1.5.)

So I guess what I am asking is can we fix this? It is a different fighting style to have turrets (WITH A FRIGGEN 60% DAMAGE NERF and like a 3x increase in price or more which affects buy backs) that stay on target while I evade. It shouldn't be such that I HAVE to have a combat ship to stand a chance.


I should be able to make force shell LR turrets that can prevent some fixed weapons newb from just ganking. (not that I mind it all that much, it is a game after all)


Please, FDEV make turrets at least partially relevant? I mean then it would take skill to pvp not just "I HAVE GRADE 5s AND SOME RAIL GUNS" because if you dont have grade 5's and fixed weapons you might be in trouble. I mean some of the pirate builds even have all the internals gutted out. So why cant my engineering mining defender take out a collector limpet pirate ship? Or AT LEAST give them a run. -- I can appreciate SOME benefit of either way, but right now it is kinda so far apart it feels pointless to try. Though I will keep trying.
Esp now that I know that 3k is the cap.................thanks for that btw......

Here is the vid of my testing.

Source: https://youtu.be/V0cUClWjwp0

Source: https://youtu.be/Ywg68T21bjE

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

+1
I don't use turrets very often (mostly AX Multi-cannons or regular MCs on scouts), and I think it's somewhat silly they don't track to the maximum range, or a least have the option to track beyond optimal range.
Maybe we just need an option under each turret in the modules tab, to adjust the range it will open fire. Those less fussed about DPS or wasted ammo/capacitor will probably set them to near maximum range. I know I would.

 

[Factabulous]

In my imagination I can hear everyone say "FIXED IS MOST DPS" but it also necessitates a HOTAS setup

Errm, nope. Fixed is most DPS but a lot use m/kB because they are more accurate... which is important for fixed...

 

[Broken_One]

+1
I don't use turrets very often (mostly AX Multi-cannons or regular MCs on scouts), and I think it's somewhat silly they don't track to the maximum range, or a least have the option to track beyond optimal range.
Maybe we just need an option under each turret in the modules tab, to adjust the range it will open fire. Those less fussed about DPS or wasted ammo/capacitor will probably set them to near maximum range. I know I would.

Agreed. A sliding scale would help, or a toggle something. Even just a MORE expensive module (though these turrets add up to the rebuy quite a bit) So I could have a relevant turret ship that wouldn't just get OWNed, until i can find someone that actually knows how to work the gunner position in multi-crew.

I am trying to build a multi-crew ship but everyone that gets in the gunner seat cant figure it out. The second time I let someone mess with it for like 45 minutes just to figure out how to use the pulse scanner. But then we get in combat and they jump OUT of the gunner seat and the things dont work right. Or they jump in the gunner seat and dont know how to operate anything.

Neither here nor there in this discussion except to say that the relevance of turrets has a direct correlation with the relevance of multi-crew ships.
Some might say they take less skill, but it is playing off your scanners vs playing off your field of view.

 

[Broken_One]

Errm, nope. Fixed is most DPS but a lot use m/kB because they are more accurate... which is important for fixed...

Neg. they are most DPS because that is how FDev built it. Gimbals would be most accurate.

Accuracy is addressed with Jitter though, not DPS.

the DPS has to do with Time on target, and free tracking. Also has to do with player attitudes and balancing of gameplay.

Why they are so darn expensive though idk. Esp being that no turret is best in slot, yet they are all the most expensive.

 

[Northpin]

Your test seem to be flawed to me.
Most of the time you are out of Wep Capacitor or out of range.
Also... Cannons? they run out of ammo too fast and at the most inappropriate times

Use laser turrets, LR pulse lasers if you have Capacitor/Charge issues
My laser turrets are hitting reliably from 4.5k and they start to fire from max range.

Also at long range, turrets are more accurate than gimbals since the later wobble like hell.

Edit: the only thing that really needs fixing is removal of microgimbal effect from hitscan weapons.

 

[Rubbernuke]

LR on a cannon turret? Anything projectile based firing that far away on a turret is pretty much wasting ammo unless the target is not moving.

Its easy to program automatic tracking in a game to predict a targets possible position, but the the further out you go the more inaccurate that becomes.

If anything, turrets with projectile weapons are only useful SRB- where targets are close and the hit is more likely.

 

[Friedenreich Xante]

Shooting projectiles from afar on a moving target is pointless. I use LR only on energy weapons, and even then the aim is more to reduce falloff.

You know the saying, keep your friends close, and your enemies closer. That's for better accuracy

 

[Old Duck]

Turreted weapons, though taking a hit on DPS, have a longer time on target, which I should be ok with if I am flying My T-10 around. (which the T-10 is SUPPOSED to be a combat ship)

So I Put some turrets with LR engineering on them thinking that pirates and the like wouldnt be able to run away.

Like you, I have an affinity for turreted weapons. However I do not recommend long range engineering on anything except fixed weapons. Even gimbaled weapons miss way too much at range (and I'm talking lasers, projectiles are even worse). Here's what I do: I engineer my MC turrets as short-range blasters, which gives them the same or better DPS as a stock gimbaled weapon with the only major negative being a reduction in range. Since this actually saves ammunition (misses are wasted ammo), even this "negative" is a plus in my book. But for every boat that has turrets, I have at least one long range fixed weapon, usually a beam or rail gun. You don't need a HOTAS or mouse to hit things at long range, thanks to the microservos. I play using a PS4 controller. If you are trying to stop enemies from jumping out, put thermal shock on a fixed beam, and you'll have a good chance of causing them to overheat while their FSD is charging, resulting in a BOOM regardless of hull or shields.

 

[Broken_One]

Like you, I have an affinity for turreted weapons. However I do not recommend long range engineering on anything except fixed weapons. Even gimbaled weapons miss way too much at range (and I'm talking lasers, projectiles are even worse). Here's what I do: I engineer my MC turrets as short-range blasters, which gives them the same or better DPS as a stock gimbaled weapon with the only major negative being a reduction in range. Since this actually saves ammunition (misses are wasted ammo), even this "negative" is a plus in my book. But for every boat that has turrets, I have at least one long range fixed weapon, usually a beam or rail gun. You don't need a HOTAS or mouse to hit things at long range, thanks to the microservos. I play using a PS4 controller. If you are trying to stop enemies from jumping out, put thermal shock on a fixed beam, and you'll have a good chance of causing them to overheat while their FSD is charging, resulting in a BOOM regardless of hull or shields.

your answer is just to not use turrets. lol. --- you completely do not understand the issue.

I get that accuracy will take a hit.
Fixed weapons have like a 3 degree targeting arc. Meaning if you get in 3 degrees it will auto target your target
Gimbaled weapons have like a 15 degree firing arc
Turrets have a much larger firing arc

If I have LR beams say, even grade 1, my damage dropoff goes near the max range of 3k. Now I wont explain how the volume of a sphere, much less a cone arc works (you probably already know) but turrets have a much larger area of fire.

With LR modifications your area of fire grows exponentially. -- the issue with forward facing LR cannons is they require the maneuverability -- If you have a maneuverable ship however you are just fitting in to the "you need grade 5 dirty drives or your trash" type of thinking. -- Again, they have it listed and posted that you could play different play styles (e.g. you can read the stats and nothing referenced this 3k hard limit that I saw.)

On top of this, it impacts multicrew. Turrets are required for multicrew -- yet they are so under-served. --- so why the hidden nerfs? Possible bias?

 

[Broken_One]

Shooting projectiles from afar on a moving target is pointless. I use LR only on energy weapons, and even then the aim is more to reduce falloff.

You know the saying, keep your friends close, and your enemies closer. That's for better accuracy

I will do beam weapons testing later, but the beam turrets are where I saw this behavior first. ---

 

[Broken_One]

LR on a cannon turret? Anything projectile based firing that far away on a turret is pretty much wasting ammo unless the target is not moving.

Its easy to program automatic tracking in a game to predict a targets possible position, but the the further out you go the more inaccurate that becomes.

If anything, turrets with projectile weapons are only useful SRB- where targets are close and the hit is more likely.

- Funny you should say that because the LR mod does affect projectile speed. --

I also do not think you are thinking of my situation. Lets say someone is attacking the ship. I should be able to mount some class 3 overcharge lasers on top. With two class two LR cannons with force shell. -- This should help to prevent someone from hovierng above my ship and just railing away at 3.5 k with a rail gun while I yaw. - Of course if they are flying evasivly they are not doing damage with FIXED (highest DPS) weapons. --- but no

FDevs have made is cake for fixed weaps, but turrets must suffer, and STILL pay more every rebuy

 

[Northpin]

Even gimbaled weapons miss way too much at range

Even?
Only Gimbaled weapons miss at range because FDev 'blessed' them with the dreaded wobble
G5 Long range lasers fire at 6km and at 4.5km they hit reliably. Even between 4.5 and 6km they land hits on target.
A gimbaled at 3 km will miss more often than it hits - and we talk about normal size targets. Pancakes like T9/T10 are not discussed here

 

[Old Duck]

your answer is just to not use turrets. lol. --- you completely do not understand the issue.

Do you not speak English? Read my post again. I LOVE TURRETS. I'm just telling you that they miss at longer ranges. That doesn't mean you can't use them. Most pirates will be within even the reduced range of SRB turrets until they run, and when they do run, LR turrets won't stop them even if they do fire at their maximum range.

Or you can just be stubborn and die (in the game), I don't care

^-------- If you truly don't speak good english, then that was rude of me. Apologies.

 

[Broken_One]

Your test seem to be flawed to me.
Most of the time you are out of Wep Capacitor or out of range.
Also... Cannons? they run out of ammo too fast and at the most inappropriate times

Use laser turrets, LR pulse lasers if you have Capacitor/Charge issues
My laser turrets are hitting reliably from 4.5k and they start to fire from max range.

Also at long range, turrets are more accurate than gimbals since the later wobble like hell.

Edit: the only thing that really needs fixing is removal of microgimbal effect from hitscan weapons.

The test is not a damage test. The only thing you have to do is listen to the sounds. you can hear when the cannon starts firing

That is the only test.

I know once or twice I had no charge in the capacitor because all I was doing was trying to hover at max range and see when the reticles turned yellow, and when the weapons started firing.

that is my exploration ship. The only reason I put a beam on it is for gaurdian unlocks. I added the class 1 multi for sng's. -- I was not trying to kill anything.

 

[Broken_One]

Do you not speak English? Read my post again. I LOVE TURRETS. I'm just telling you that they miss at longer ranges. That doesn't mean you can't use them. Most pirates will be within even the reduced range of SRB turrets until they run, and when they do run, LR turrets won't stop them even if they do fire at their maximum range.

Or you can just be stubborn and die (in the game), I don't care

I think you are thinking npc's

 

[Old Duck]

Even?
Only Gimbaled weapons miss at range because FDev 'blessed' them with the dreaded wobble
G5 Long range lasers fire at 6km and at 4.5km they hit reliably. Even between 4.5 and 6km they land hits on target.
A gimbaled at 3 km will miss more often than it hits - and we talk about normal size targets. Pancakes like T9/T10 are not discussed here

Yes, totally agree about that dreaded wobble, which is why SRB is a favorite engineering mod for me.

 

[Rubbernuke]

- Funny you should say that because the LR mod does affect projectile speed. --

But does it make them hitscan? If not, then its a waste of ammo since at range your target has to move about a meter in any direction for you to miss them.

I also do not think you are thinking of my situation. Lets say someone is attacking the ship. I should be able to mount some class 3 overcharge lasers on top. With two class two LR cannons with force shell. -- This should help to prevent someone from hovierng above my ship and just railing away at 3.5 k with a rail gun while I yaw. - Of course if they are flying evasivly they are not doing damage with FIXED (highest DPS) weapons. --- but no

FDevs have made is cake for fixed weaps, but turrets must suffer, and STILL pay more every rebuy

Anything projectile based beyond 1Km on a turret is wasted. Energy weapons yes, many people fit weapons that have dispersal on them to paint a target for locking.

On my old BGS murderVette I had two small MC turrets on the nose set with SRB for overshooting Eagles- but at range its just squirting out lead.

 

[Old Duck]

I think you are thinking npc's

You're not? Again, I think perhaps your english is not very good. Okay, I can work with that. If you are saying that your pirates are other players, well then don't expect turrets to save you, no matter how you engineer them. I'm not even a professional PvPer and I know I could easily beat your Type-10 if this is your strategy. PvE, on the other hand, allows for effective use of turrets if you understand their limitations and compensate for those. You don't seem to want to do that, however.

 

[MDHansen]

I got a sneaky feeling we could write anything here and you would object to it, even if we agreed with you

Also, turreted weapons are more expensive because they are more advanced constructions, you know, do your job for you. I use Focused Fixed Burst on my S1 and S2 slots, and fixed beams on the S4, on the Corvette. I have absolutely no issues hitting and killing Eagles at 3+km.
On the other issues in your OP I can't say too much