Please further nerf thermal cascade

[Geist]

Not everyone is an elite pilot (despite the title which only requires time and ships blown up). Most still struggle against the npcs. Heck I myself in my A rated anaconda will often flee if more than one ship starts attacking me. Not everyone has high level engineer upgrades. Again I don't even have. A single one. The npcs in pve cheat like crazy! Unlimited ammo, triple rail gun Eagles that can seemingly fire them forever and not melt. Unlimited chaff, shield cell boosters and a turn rate on some ships that makes you scratch your head. Or the aimbot like capability to nail you with plasma accelerators or rail guns and dumb fires from miles away. The npcs are quite a challenge to most. It's only the small minority that is able to out class them.

Yet you still see posts from the "git gud" brigade claiming how they take on and destroy wings of 4 Elite Anacondas while flying a no shield Hauler armed only with a mining laser.
Over heating is the bane of my game, maybe the FDL is just not very good at managing it (but saying that I get the same when I fly my Vulture) but my cabin is often like a microwave cooking a CD.

Please Devs tone the heat down a smidge.

 

[Sundae]

My solution was to just get an Annaconda,

An FDL with super heated weapons just cant burn it. shes too big. Sure if you get a heat corvette or another heat conda youll have the same problems..but most of the griefers, the annoying ones, are flying round in FDLs thinking they are hot (pun intended) well...worked for me and having a better time of it now.

What? No. You have no idea what you're talking about.

The whole point is that and FDL can easily solo kill all the large ships with heat, effectively nullifying the massive defenses and huge price tags of the ships simply by equipping weapons that bypass all defenses, and are un-counterable. If you bring a conda/vette/cuttah against a heat fit FDL with a good FA off pilot with chaff, you are ***toast***. heh

 

[nathdixon92]

So in fact, your issue isn't so much that PVP balancing (is there any?) is ruining the game but that balancing in general is ruining the game.. I'll think you'll find that many who do exclusively PVE combat would also object to an I win button which makes PVE combat trivial ;-) I don't see any reason in principle why PVE and PVP can't be balanced in the same ways. The NPCs after all have access to all the same weapons.. The difference of course is that NPCs do not currently have access to special effects.. if they did, and they used significant number of heat weapons I think it's fair to say that PVPers wouldn't be the only people complaining about balance.

The issue with heat weapons is that there are very few counters which makes fights very short, and very boring. If the same weapons existed in PVE, exactly the same problem would exist and can you imagine the wailing and gnashing of teeth on the forums? Given how the forums currently regard, even todays neutered NPCs who have to fight on an unfair footing against commanders with superior firepower..

Out of interest can you name any weapon change which has negatively affected PVE play experience? As far as I'm aware, PVErs don't really use heat weapons.

That's kind of the point. Frontier wanted fights to become more fast paced. If they did take thermal out of the game you would only go and find something else to moan about. I don't imagine heat getting nerfed much more as there has only been one or two posts about it following the last patch

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What? No. You have no idea what you're talking about.

The whole point is that and FDL can easily solo kill all the large ships with heat, effectively nullifying the massive defenses and huge price tags of the ships simply by equipping weapons that bypass all defenses, and are un-counterable. If you bring a conda/vette/cuttah against a heat fit FDL with a good FA off pilot with chaff, you are ***toast***. heh

Just because you are in a massive ship with enormous defences doesn't make you impervious to damage from small ships. You have all those extra utility slots.

Heck will you lot be moaning that stars are op as the heat from bypasses your shields.

 

[Sundae]

That's kind of the point. Frontier wanted fights to become more fast paced. If they did take thermal out of the game you would only go and find something else to moan about. I don't imagine heat getting nerfed much more as there has only been one or two posts about it following the last patch

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Just because you are in a massive ship with enormous defences doesn't make you impervious to damage from small ships. You have all those extra utility slots.

Heck will you lot be moaning that stars are op as the heat from bypasses your shields.

Let's see if I can get through to your Oxytocin soaked brain for a second with some logic.

The largest, highest defense, highest costing, and both locked by rank grind are so vulnerable to a weapon that they have no choice but to immediately run from any smaller ship wielding them. On top of that, the heat sinks that you imply are so useful are—GUESS WHAT—the first things to fail under a heat attack, being the lowest integrity module on your ship. Are players stars? Are you literally staying that it's fine for players to literally have the same heat profile of a star? Please stop posting. You are out of your depth.

In summation via Rinzler—
[9:53 AM] z4.Rinzler: It's better than every other modification at their own jobs
[9:53 AM] z4.Rinzler: Causes more malfunctions than a malfunction mod
[9:54 AM] z4.Rinzler: Responsible for more hull damage than a corrosive attack
[9:54 AM] z4.Rinzler: Better at shield-pen hull damage than phasing sequence

 

[Nerwan]

That's kind of the point. Frontier wanted fights to become more fast paced. If they did take thermal out of the game you would only go and find something else to moan about. I don't imagine heat getting nerfed much more as there has only been one or two posts about it following the last patch Just because you are in a massive ship with enormous defences doesn't make you impervious to damage from small ships. You have all those extra utility slots.

Heck will you lot be moaning that stars are op as the heat from bypasses your shields.

Hmm, you seem to have collected up arguments you've had with several people and attributed them to me.. you also seem to have attributed an entire past history of "whining" to me for which you have no basis in fact. It was Sundae that mentioned big ships, not I (although I agree with him).. I've never complained about any of the previous meta's.. I loved the SR meta personally, I thought it involved a lot of skill because using FA off to be evasive and then hitting people consistently with fixed rail guns etc was quite a test of raw piloting.. I also enjoyed the SCB meta.. the PIP management etc provided a challenge and it was a test of skill. The heat meta is not like either of these.. it's spamming seekers and heat sinks and reduces PVP down to a numbers game..

Big ships used to be fun in the SR days.. You could take a Cutter/Corvette into a wing fight and take on 4 FDLs.. they had an advantage over you because they could do so much more damage but you could keep your shields up under a massive barrage of fire. It was fun. Big ships are purely for 1v1s now.. they're incredibly easy for little ships to hit with dumb fires.. and the extra utility slots mean nothing in the face a couple of ships with heat weapons..

EDIT: Oh you edited and took out the bit about me "whining", thanks I guess ;-)

 

[StiTch]

There isn't even much of a counter other than heatsinks, which they nerfed to kill of silent builds. That didn't work either.

This is personally the bit that makes me chuckle. FD nerfed heatsinks again literally as 2.1 was dropping to hamper the SR meta, which in the first place we knew was propagated by the FDL (and in part its 6 utility slots that care much less about the heat sink nerf anyway)...despite being about to drop a complete re-write of equipment that would inevitably completely rewrite the meta from scratch.

And look where we are...in desperate need of heat sinks, and they're off enjoying their holiday xD

 

[Bigskill]

Guys the main problem is that FD is unable to balance pvp and weapons, they dont use middle ways, or black or white..... Uber or Nerd, thats it.....
Dont know where this is leading to.....

 

[Rinzler o7o7o7]

ITT:

PvE noobs pretending they know what they're talking about regarding the game's combat mechanics. Just another day on the official forums!

 

[Darth Ender]

Heck will you lot be moaning that stars are op as the heat from bypasses your shields.

That's my fight.

Tired of Y dwarfs shining light and emitting heat when they're literally colder than the freezing point of water.

Also yes, heat weapons had as much thought and practice put into them as one would expect (none). I'd expect a change in magnitude or behavior in the next patch...whenever that may be.

 

[Jex =TE=]

that has to be the dumbest comment i have seen so far , i literately said why they were going to ban me SURPRISE

Wait Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaatt???? When did the thread dissolve into this discussion?? :S

 

[Elethiomel Zakalwe]

Let's see if I can get through to your Oxytocin soaked brain for a second with some logic.

The largest, highest defense, highest costing, and both locked by rank grind are so vulnerable to a weapon that they have no choice but to immediately run from any smaller ship wielding them. On top of that, the heat sinks that you imply are so useful are—GUESS WHAT—the first things to fail under a heat attack, being the lowest integrity module on your ship. Are players stars? Are you literally staying that it's fine for players to literally have the same heat profile of a star? Please stop posting. You are out of your depth.

In summation via Rinzler—
[9:53 AM] z4.Rinzler: It's better than every other modification at their own jobs
[9:53 AM] z4.Rinzler: Causes more malfunctions than a malfunction mod
[9:54 AM] z4.Rinzler: Responsible for more hull damage than a corrosive attack
[9:54 AM] z4.Rinzler: Better at shield-pen hull damage than phasing sequence

I think you are grossly understating the problem. Players have the same heat profile as a star? Pfffft. At least I can manage heat from a star with good timing and heatsinks.

 

[Sundae]

I think you are grossly understating the problem. Players have the same heat profile as a star? Pfffft. At least I can manage heat from a star with good timing and heatsinks.

[mod hat off] Once again, I am apparently out of my depth. I'll leave this conversation to the solo play pvp experts. [mod hat on]

 

[Chance-]

[mod hat off] Once again, I am apparently out of my depth. I'll leave this conversation to the solo play pvp experts. [mod hat on]

[gently caressing sundae's mod hat] it's best not to stick your nose where it does not belong my precious. let the adults talk at their plastic rubbermaid picnic table [continues stroking mod hat]

 

[fantasmic]

I would love to see a hauler deploy a nuke and take a 'pirate' Cutter with it in a big boom.

Exactly. The worst complaint I've seen in this thread is that PvPers have to .. gasp.. run away! It's pathetic.

As long as NPC pirate haulers get to have them. A good pirate would be smart enough to bring countermeasures. A good player would be smart enough. I'd bet the people begging for overpowered equipment like this would lose a couple cutters before working it out, assuming they do work it out instead of starting to combat log on haulers.

The complaint is not that we have to run. It's that we have to run IMMEDIATELY or die in fire. If you stay to fight for any amount of time there will not be enough module integrity remaining to run reliably if you decide you're overmatched. Most of us forget to mention that it's only our experience with "heated situations" that allows us to even manage an escape after dropping into a fight and heat spiking to 10000000% in the first second. There is no recourse, no chance for a comeback, activating any feature of your ship (other than heat sinks) only exacerbates your problems.

I think you are grossly understating the problem. Players have the same heat profile as a star? Pfffft. At least I can manage heat from a star with good timing and heatsinks.

Yeah, I can comfortably fule scoop at maximum and fsd charge on a single heat sink with any ship in the game near any class of star. I wouldn't fight heat with my A rated anaconda without a minimum of 2 sinks active.

[mod hat off] Once again, I am apparently out of my depth. I'll leave this conversation to the solo play pvp experts. [mod hat on]

I lol'd

 

[Ian Skippy]

Not everyone is an elite pilot (despite the title which only requires time and ships blown up). Most still struggle against the npcs. Heck I myself in my A rated anaconda will often flee if more than one ship starts attacking me. Not everyone has high level engineer upgrades. Again I don't even have. A single one. The npcs in pve cheat like crazy! Unlimited ammo, triple rail gun Eagles that can seemingly fire them forever and not melt. Unlimited chaff, shield cell boosters and a turn rate on some ships that makes you scratch your head. Or the aimbot like capability to nail you with plasma accelerators or rail guns and dumb fires from miles away. The npcs are quite a challenge to most. It's only the small minority that is able to out class them.

I dont like to say 'git gud', but I'll make an exception for you: all you need to figure out NPCs dont cheat with chaff is the ability to count to eleven. You may be close, but you're apparantly not quite there yet. If you have problems with what comes after a specific number, just let me know and I'll help you out. I suggest you start by counting SCB: thats only five or so per module, so you should be able to get close on your own.

Seriously: some people are great at this game, most are average, some people cant even count. I sincerely hope we're not going to balance this game around people with the mental capacity of a three-year old.

 

[digitalscream]

I dont like to say 'git gud', but I'll make an exception for you: all you need to figure out NPCs dont cheat with chaff is the ability to count to eleven. You may be close, but you're apparantly not quite there yet. If you have problems with what comes after a specific number, just let me know and I'll help you out. I suggest you start by counting SCB: thats only five or so per module, so you should be able to get close on your own.

Seriously: some people are great at this game, most are average, some people cant even count. I sincerely hope we're not going to balance this game around people with the mental capacity of a three-year old.

To be fair, I think one of the accusations does have merit. For example...a Dangerous NPC in an Asp was able to consistently hit my Vulture with his rails while I was circling and strafing him (while rolling randomly to change my vector) in the blue zone at a range of about 300m. Now, that's not necessarily dodgy in itself, except that I have level 3 dirty drives and at that range, I couldn't turn fast enough to keep my sights on him even with 4 pips in ENG. Yet...two hits with the dual rails in close succession, followed by another two.

Something's hinky about that; there's no way in hell an Asp should be able to get even close to that kind of turn rate and accuracy.

 

[Lenny.V]

Shields are very important part of ship defence. If thermal shock/cascade are necessary, then shields should have better protection against heat. Simply if you have shields online, then you shouldn't get any heat / or small amount of heat damage, while if shields are offline, then heat is highly pumped into cooling system. That's my opinion. This or something similar is necessary in this game, because thermal shock/cascade are gamebreaking things that kills PvP and other already useless builds. Even if you have active many heat sinks - against Thermal cascade are useless.

 

[Azmuth Divarchchron]

Do not nerf thermal casscade any further. Its already balanced as it is. a further nerf would make it worthless. Frontier already implimented a cap of 160% thermal and even with thermal pack hounds you basically have to use your entire reserve ammo for someone's ship to have any considerable system failures if they know what they are doing.