Pondering Exploration

[Pluvialis]

I'm sorry (sincerely so) if this is a done-to-death topic. But I'm still seeing a lot of complaints and/or observations about lack of content and variety in Things To Do.

To some extent, while I'm having great fun in the game, I can see the point. I'm not a fighter, at least beyond some low-level bounty hunting of NPCs (I play solo). I'll trade, a bit, but what draws me to games mostly is exploration: the ability to disappear out into the wilds for days, weeks at a time.

This is something ED offers at an unpredecented scale (well, unprecedented since FFE, anyway) - but... I admit I haven't taken to exploring as some have because, if I'm honest, watching planets gliding by, whilst beautiful in its way, isn't really exploring, for me. It's more just travelling to the place you want to explore. There isn't really any 'wild' to disappear into: there's just space.

Real exploring, if it comes at all - and I hope it does! - will come with planetary landings. And this is where I get curious about what - realistically - I can expect from the planetary landings expansion.

Exploration, in my Perfect Space Game what I have programmed in my head, would involve arriving in orbit of a planet, and running a scan from on high in order to establish topography, atmosphere composition, gravity, etc. Maybe a scan for life traces.

Then pick a landing spot, de-orbit, fly the approach and landing manually, touch down wherever you like on the surface. See the terrain, clouds, oceans, rivers, plant life - plains, forests, deserts, jungle, whatever. You can fly over the landscape, fly through canyons and over mountains, skim the oceans. And then, when you land, you can get out and wander. Venture into the forests, delve into caverns and climb the hills. Maybe even find ruins? Fly through the clouds of gas giants.

Can I go out into the galaxy and find views, encounter animals and plants that perhaps no other player has seen before, and take pictures of them? Now that would be exploring! Basically Space Engine, but with plant life, animals and weather? But is it a realistic expectation?

 

[dognosh]

I'm sorry (sincerely so) if this is a done-to-death topic. But I'm still seeing a lot of complaints and/or observations about lack of content and variety in Things To Do.

To some extent, while I'm having great fun in the game, I can see the point. I'm not a fighter, at least beyond some low-level bounty hunting of NPCs (I play solo). I'll trade, a bit, but what draws me to games mostly is exploration: the ability to disappear out into the wilds for days, weeks at a time.

This is something ED offers at an unpredecented scale (well, unprecedented since FFE, anyway) - but... I admit I haven't taken to exploring as some have because, if I'm honest, watching planets gliding by, whilst beautiful in its way, isn't really exploring, for me. It's more just travelling to the place you want to explore. There isn't really any 'wild' to disappear into: there's just space.

Real exploring, if it comes at all - and I hope it does! - will come with planetary landings. And this is where I get curious about what - realistically - I can expect from the planetary landings expansion.

Exploration, in my Perfect Space Game what I have programmed in my head, would involve arriving in orbit of a planet, and running a scan from on high in order to establish topography, atmosphere composition, gravity, etc. Maybe a scan for life traces.

Then pick a landing spot, de-orbit, fly the approach and landing manually, touch down wherever you like on the surface. See the terrain, clouds, oceans, rivers, plant life - plains, forests, deserts, jungle, whatever. You can fly over the landscape, fly through canyons and over mountains, skim the oceans. And then, when you land, you can get out and wander. Venture into the forests, delve into caverns and climb the hills. Maybe even find ruins? Fly through the clouds of gas giants.

Can I go out into the galaxy and find views, encounter animals and plants that perhaps no other player has seen before, and take pictures of them? Now that would be exploring! Basically Space Engine, but with plant life, animals and weather? But is it a realistic expectation?

Totally agreed with you. As it currently is, ED Exploration is not for you. I think your time will come when we do get planetary landings
Hope you stick with it and not leave us

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And the reason i didn't persuade you is because exploration, like trading ,mining and combat going after lots of NPC just to rank up , can be a grind and you don't do grind !

 

[Galten75]

Yeah, right now exploring is requires you to make you own, imaginary, adventures (that you you will encounter the most eccentric and weird players of the game in this sub forum ). I would love all those features you described but I not even sure the planetary landing-expansion will be like that, unfortunately.

But any new content to exploring will be welcomed with open arm to most explorers.

// G

 

[CMDR AKIRA MASAKARI]

I agree that exploration can be a grinding if you don't make your stories and set your goals. For me it's exciting as it is, but i wish more future content and planetary landing. If for you systems as they are presented now are not interesting i cannot suggest to go.

 

[Dommarraa]

Without interaction, what you are describing is simply exploring with more graphics. I would love more interaction, but you don't need a paid dlc Fir that

 

[Pluvialis]

Without interaction, what you are describing is simply exploring with more graphics.

I suppose it is. But that's how I personally would like to see exploration develop - because, after all, exploring is about going where people haven't been before. Interaction - as in player interaction, or interaction with traders/pirates/smugglers/fences and such - is certainly something I'd like to see more of, but by definition that'd all be happening in the populated spaces, for the most part. Sure, the occasional distant outpost, maybe, as a hideout - but it's unlikely anyone would set up a base of operations out on the fringe if their operations depended on dealing with people.

 

[Pluvialis]

Totally agreed with you. As it currently is, ED Exploration is not for you. I think your time will come when we do get planetary landings
Hope you stick with it and not leave us

Oh, I'm certainly not going to leave - I have great fun in the game, even doing exploring as it is (although at the moment the grind for me is in saving up for the advanced scanner...!).

But no, I'm not going anywhere. But I do occasionally find myself loading up Space Engine and wandering the galaxy in that a bit: it does produce some beautiful scenery - especially with lighting, auroras and such - but even there, it lacks any sign of life, even for planets that say they have life. There are no clouds, no weather; nothing to make a world come alive - even any plant life beyond vaguely green ground textures.

I admit it: I'm kind of besotted with the No Man's Sky demo videos (we probably don't mention That Game in here - though I can't think that playing that would lead me to stop playing ED, as there are precious few decent space sims as there are). I'm not convinced we'll see it for PC, though.

EDIT: Sorry - kind of expected this second post to merge to the first, but must've spent too long typing it.

 

[Ziljan]

That actually sounds pretty close to what Braben said would be in the planetary landing expansion, including flying though the upper layers of gas giants. I hope it gets realized to this degree.

But, as much as I am looking forward to planetary landings, I think the most important aspect for them to get right is the compelling gameplay. It has to be more than just another reason to take an amazing screenshot. On the other hand, if it is just a fun game that happens to be placed in exotic and semi-unique locations, then the beauty and awe at the surroundings will be nice distraction and add a sense of wonder.

They could actually create more compelling gameplay right now with the space exploration aspects with only minimal changes to the exploration mechanic. All it needs is

1) context (eg missions, factions, colonization, mining expeditions, etc)
2) a better player recognition system
3) some kind of skill-based scanning system to get players more involved
4) a little more risk in certain untamed systems to make it interesting
5) a little more rewards to make skilled based success more addictive

 

[EddyRockSteady]

Jump into a ship and head out to the Nebulas. There's something magical about not knowing what is waiting for you at the other end of the jump. Couple that with some absolute jaw-dropping scenery and you have a cocktail that is best experienced firsthand: Do not rely on us to tell you - you really need to do it yourself.

Go for it - its not far to the likes of the crab, Elephant and others. If its not for you then its but a short hop back.

Pity you did not speak up a couple of days ago - I would have sponsored you an ADS. If you still strapped for cash when I like my head back then look me up (CMDR # G #)and I'll happily kit you out: I have too much doubloons in any event, will never spend it all

 

[wstephenson]

I'd like it if exploration involved a lot more of the "disease and danger" alluded to in the title of the DDF thread on the topic: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6418, if not in the actual content of the proposal. I'd like exploration to be the "survival horror" genre part of ED, like 19th century explorers on Earth, but without a serious rebalance of ship jump ranges, fuel consumption, wear and tear, and scooping, I don't see how FD can now make it like that.

 

[lorrad]

That actually sounds pretty close to what Braben said would be in the planetary landing expansion, including flying though the upper layers of gas giants. I hope it gets realized to this degree.

But, as much as I am looking forward to planetary landings, I think the most important aspect for them to get right is the compelling gameplay. It has to be more than just another reason to take an amazing screenshot. On the other hand, if it is just a fun game that happens to be placed in exotic and semi-unique locations, then the beauty and awe at the surroundings will be nice distraction and add a sense of wonder.

They could actually create more compelling gameplay right now with the space exploration aspects with only minimal changes to the exploration mechanic. All it needs is

1) context (eg missions, factions, colonization, mining expeditions, etc)
2) a better player recognition system
3) some kind of skill-based scanning system to get players more involved
4) a little more risk in certain untamed systems to make it interesting
5) a little more rewards to make skilled based success more addictive

I hope the Sirius Exploration Co, is a proper faction or power. Obviously it would setup truck stops, at least one per region, with gas, repair, basic outfitting, food, stip clubs and hookers. Of course being expensive to be out there you'll get rolled by the prices as well. "35,000", for a class E fuel scoop you got be joking", "do you want to get out of here or not".

Then there's those suspicious permitting regions, can't believe no one would be interested in not setting up outposts to keep a watch on them, or is humanity in final phase of civilization implosive collapse and only interested in internal political bickering, what celebrity has been seen with whatever other famous useless twonk, who you got to redecorate your station, who's hired the latest greatest celebrity servant,,,,what are those flames burning on the horizon, I can't say I care for the color it clashes with my eyes.

If you're bored of grinding for credits just make up personal goals. For example the human bubble itself isn't fully explored. Within two jump ranges from my chosen home base I found 10-20 stations that had hardly ever been visited, some never and none of them were in Thrudd's, Slopey's or EDDB. None of them were all that special but you never know there might be a missed gem right next to you. Could even spend the rest of your life filling in blank systems and stations.

Or, you don't have to join a group like the Ducks of Mickdim to "test" influencing the background sim. If you're off in your own little system with few visitors you can flip stations all by your capricious little self. You can be the King of **********, until you announce it and your reign of error will end.

Like exploring, pick a region any region and decide to fully explore it. You might type in SYNUEFUE in the map and count how many systems, clusters and sectors that amounts to first. Did you see the galnet that some commander did that with over 4000 systems visited, while kindly also mentioning he missed 5. Perhaps not so kind for those with OCD.

Sure there's lost of other things people can think of for themselves too.

 

[Ziljan]

I'd like it if exploration involved a lot more of the "disease and danger" alluded to in the title of the DDF thread on the topic: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6418, if not in the actual content of the proposal. I'd like exploration to be the "survival horror" genre part of ED, like 19th century explorers on Earth, but without a serious rebalance of ship jump ranges, fuel consumption, wear and tear, and scooping, I don't see how FD can now make it like that.

I like this idea very much. I think the current jump ranges are fine actually, but a little more wear and tear and unexpected disaster drama would be welcome, as well as more means to avoid or mitigate it. It would be cool if players could actually set up player run space stations in remote locations to refuel and repair the explorers in key locations like way stations to Sgr A*.

I hope the Sirius Exploration Co, is a proper faction or power. Obviously it would setup truck stops, at least one per region, with gas, repair, basic outfitting, food, stip clubs and hookers. Of course being expensive to be out there you'll get rolled by the prices as well. "35,000", for a class E fuel scoop you got be joking", "do you want to get out of here or not"..

Ha! You read my mind. Deep space outposts and explorer factions would be a great addition. Hopefully some of this makes it in with 1.3. Deep space outposts should be possible once any kind of colonization mechanic is implemented. And colonization seems to go hand in hand with the power play theme.

 

[Ripster]

Exploration on the Elite level is BILLIONS of systems.

Just visiting them all is a HUGE undertaking.

If I then landed on even a 10th of the close up worlds I have scanned and bothered to "drive up close to" - it would be a miracle

As an old (I mean old) Elite player - just visiting the stars (in all their billion glory) IS the dream.

For me, get space flight right, then tackle https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=miracle&spell=1&sa=X&ei=vQVdVYX6DIHaUb7IgZAP&ved=0CBsQvwUoAAthe icing

 

[CMDR TdM]

I'm on my third attempt to get to sag a* first two times I bailed out. It's a loooong way.

Make a decision if you do go out there. Are you looking to actually explore and scan everything or to travel? Set goals accordingly. I'm now using it as a relaxing way of winding down before I go to bed. My progress is slow, but I'm getting there and I'm ticking off a few must see points on the way... It's a bit like being on holiday

 

[CMDR DoubleSkulls]

400 billion systems. Even at 1 minute per system, without backtracking once or sleeping, it would take 761 years.

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I'm on my third attempt to get to sag a* first two times I bailed out. It's a loooong way.

Make a decision if you do go out there. Are you looking to actually explore and scan everything or to travel? Set goals accordingly. I'm now using it as a relaxing way of winding down before I go to bed. My progress is slow, but I'm getting there and I'm ticking off a few must see points on the way... It's a bit like being on holiday

Its tough. With a good jump range its still 900-1000 systems to get through. I only really got there by:
1) "racing" through quite a lot of systems - no scanning, no looking at the system map. Just scoop and honk. I found this very very dull though and thought about all the sights I was missing out on. So only did it for the first 8kly.
2) getting very strict with myself about what I scanned. So I basically said any potential WW, Amonnia or ELW would be an excuse to scan the system. Otherwise just push on.

 

[Whiterose]

400 billion systems. Even at 1 minute per system, without backtracking once or sleeping, it would take 761 years.

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Its tough. With a good jump range its still 900-1000 systems to get through. I only really got there by:
1) "racing" through quite a lot of systems - no scanning, no looking at the system map. Just scoop and honk. I found this very very dull though and thought about all the sights I was missing out on. So only did it for the first 8kly.
2) getting very strict with myself about what I scanned. So I basically said any potential WW, Amonnia or ELW would be an excuse to scan the system. Otherwise just push on.

I agree. Rocks and gas giants dont float my boat, unless they are pretty.

 

[Pluvialis]

Pity you did not speak up a couple of days ago - I would have sponsored you an ADS.

That's a very kind thought, but I'm quite happy to spend the time on it; it's just such a long way from IDS to ADS.

If you're bored of grinding for credits just make up personal goals. For example the human bubble itself isn't fully explored. Within two jump ranges from my chosen home base I found 10-20 stations that had hardly ever been visited, some never and none of them were in Thrudd's, Slopey's or EDDB. None of them were all that special but you never know there might be a missed gem right next to you. Could even spend the rest of your life filling in blank systems and stations.

Or, you don't have to join a group like the Ducks of Mickdim to "test" influencing the background sim. If you're off in your own little system with few visitors you can flip stations all by your capricious little self. You can be the King of **********, until you announce it and your reign of error will end.

I like these ideas. Particularly that last. I've never really investigated the influence system that much - I generally assumed that to cause any sizeable shifts would take a large number of players working in concert. But I suppose that may well depend on where I am. I'll look into it.

 

[lorrad]

That's a very kind thought, but I'm quite happy to spend the time on it; it's just such a long way from IDS to ADS.


I like these ideas. Particularly that last. I've never really investigated the influence system that much - I generally assumed that to cause any sizeable shifts would take a large number of players working in concert. But I suppose that may well depend on where I am. I'll look into it.

Illusion and delusion seem built into the game and a likely view of politics and history summed in the phrase ",,,sound and fury signifying nothing,,," like the melodrama of European history no one changed anything ever, the French are still in France, the Germans still Germans, the English still insane,,,, The only thing in this view that does change things is wholesale slaughter and genocide like Thargoid Hoards. You can have the illusion of your New Carribean and it will seem like you're putting up a good fight as those opposed will seek you out but the majority will switch on their 100% effective invisibility cloak, undermine and ignore you.

 

[Oopsie Daisy]

Jump into a ship and head out to the Nebulas. There's something magical about not knowing what is waiting for you at the other end of the jump. Couple that with some absolute jaw-dropping scenery and you have a cocktail that is best experienced firsthand: Do not rely on us to tell you - you really need to do it yourself.

Go for it - its not far to the likes of the crab, Elephant and others. If its not for you then its but a short hop back.

Pity you did not speak up a couple of days ago - I would have sponsored you an ADS. If you still strapped for cash when I like my head back then look me up (CMDR # G #)and I'll happily kit you out: I have too much doubloons in any event, will never spend it all

I'll take you up on that offer. I am only interested in exploration and am still in my Sidewinder and will probably move to the Hauler even though it looks like a truck. I'd prefer the Cobra but damn that full-on advanced scanner is expensive. CMDR HairballHacker at your service.

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I'd like it if exploration involved a lot more of the "disease and danger" alluded to in the title of the DDF thread on the topic: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6418, if not in the actual content of the proposal. I'd like exploration to be the "survival horror" genre part of ED, like 19th century explorers on Earth, but without a serious rebalance of ship jump ranges, fuel consumption, wear and tear, and scooping, I don't see how FD can now make it like that.

I'm hoping I'll run into C'thulhu out there in the dark. Well, not really, but space life would be neat.