Possible New VR Headset

[Rylo Ken]

Hey folks,
So... I was gone from the game for almost 2 years. Recently back... broke out the Oculus Rift and fell in love with the immersion all over again.

Hear the HTC Vive Pro makes the game look a LOT better. Thought I'd hit you guys up and see if any of you have the Rift Pro and if the headset is clearer? What are your thoughts?

I'm also considering upgrading my card which is currently a Radeon RX 480. Was thinking of staying Radeon and getting a Rx Vega 64 or maybe flipping to Nvidia for a 1080 or RTX 2070 or 2080.

I get to do this once and I have to live with the decision for the next couple of years. Help a brother out and give me some feedback on the Vive Pro and a card to go along with it.

Apppreciate any help.

Rylo


PS. Will upgrading my card make a big difference in the resolution/picture quality of the Vive Pro? Are things clear in there?
Another question... before pulling the trigger on the Vive Pro, would a jump from my current card RX 490 to the RTX 2080'ish improve CLARITY in my Rift?

 

[cmdrrdmc]

I haven't used the Vive Pro, however it really is overpriced. The Odyssey has the same resolution, and the Odyssey+ has the anti-SDE filter, and they're both way cheaper. The only thing you lose is worse roomscale tracking, which isn't important for Elite. I just can't see the value proposition with all the higher-res WMR headsets now unless you really, really need large roomscale support.

Personally, I think this year is gonna be a big one for new VR headsets. Pimax availability and software should stabilize, strong rumors of a new Rift, not so strong rumours of a new Valve headset (but hey, it's Valve), and recent announcement of new high res HP headset. I think it's worth either waiting or getting something more reasonably priced like WMR to hold you over rather than paying the absurd amount for a Vive Pro. I'm currently on a Rift and holding out for this reason. It's just not a great time to get "that VR system I'll use for the next couple years" IMO.

As for GPU, get the best you can afford. ED has trouble maintaining 90 fps as it is on modern headsets, so the sky is the limit here, especially if you want to future proof to any degree.

edit: To answer you last question. Upgrading to an RTX 2080 will allow you to bump up HMD quality, probably to 1.5 at least, so yes, it will improve text clarity quite a bit. There are diminishing returns past 1.5. You will definitely see an improvement. I have a GTX1070 for my Rift, and I still feel it's underpowered. I'm running 1.2 HMD and still not getting 90 fps everywhere. Theoretically, the higher the headset resolution, the less you should have to bump up HMD quality, but I imagine it would still benefit in a Vive Pro.

 

[Sweet&Dandy]

^ this

Depending on your financial situation I’d also wait before buying a new headset. The bump in res is nice with the odyssey / vive pro screen, but buying a better gpu and bumping up the SS should make a nice stopgap

 

[Rylo Ken]

Hey guys.,. Thanks for the input so far. I hadn't even heard of the Odyssey. I'm very much intrigued and am doing due diligence. So far, leaning toward grabbing one along with a GTX 2080 to hold me over for the next couple of years.

Thoughts?

Rylo

 

[Sweet&Dandy]

I think-cmdrrdmc is right ... we will see headsets later this year that surpass the current gen. Maybe not gen 2, but certainly 1.75! I’d wait unless you can afford to buy now AND later.

 

[Rylo Ken]

Yeah I think I'm sold on the card upgrade. Going from rx 480 to the gtx 2080 should bring quite a performance boost.

Still working on deciding between the Odyssey+ and the Vive Pro.

Found out that they have the exact same panel so... It comes down to, I guess, the tracking via inside out or satellites and, of course, price.

Having a real hard time justifying $900 difference.

Thoughts?

Rylo

 

[Vtskr]

The truth is VR is very very personal thing. Some people hate SDE, some people really hate lack of black, some people hate 110fov. Keep in mind that it is possible to play ED on modern headsets like odyssey+ and vive pro without bumping HMD quality. Text is still very readable. So you really don't need 2080ti for that. So best strategy would be getting used odyssey (not plus) and good video card. It looks like Rift S is coming out this year, and lets face it, same old rift with better resolution is all we really want

 

[cmdrrdmc]

The truth is VR is very very personal thing. Some people hate SDE, some people really hate lack of black, some people hate 110fov. Keep in mind that it is possible to play ED on modern headsets like odyssey+ and vive pro without bumping HMD quality. Text is still very readable. So you really don't need 2080ti for that. So best strategy would be getting used odyssey (not plus) and good video card. It looks like Rift S is coming out this year, and lets face it, same old rift with better resolution is all we really want

This is a good point. I bought my Rift a year ago and I'm already ready to buy another headset this year if something good enough comes out. The next few years will move very quickly in VR, so I think the idea that something you get now will be it for a while is probably false. So I agree with Vtskr, just get an Odyssey, upgrade your video card a bit, and you'll have a nice bump in your VR experience. Then when the shiny new stuff comes out you can re-evaluate. If you dump everything in a Vive Pro now, you'll be reluctant to switch gears later due to sunk cost fallacy.

 

[Sweet&Dandy]

This is a good point. I bought my Rift a year ago and I'm already ready to buy another headset this year if something good enough comes out. The next few years will move very quickly in VR, so I think the idea that something you get now will be it for a while is probably false. So I agree with Vtskr, just get an Odyssey, upgrade your video card a bit, and you'll have a nice bump in your VR experience. Then when the shiny new stuff comes out you can re-evaluate. If you dump everything in a Vive Pro now, you'll be reluctant to switch gears later due to sunk cost fallacy.

Although... to play devils advocate... I’m the proud owner of the Odyssey, but am watching with interest the forthcoming eye tracking add on for the vive pro. Fov rendering might be the game changer we have been waiting for???

 

[CylonSurfer]

Hey folks,
So... I was gone from the game for almost 2 years. Recently back... broke out the Oculus Rift and fell in love with the immersion all over again.

Hear the HTC Vive Pro makes the game look a LOT better. Thought I'd hit you guys up and see if any of you have the Rift Pro and if the headset is clearer? What are your thoughts?

I'm also considering upgrading my card which is currently a Radeon RX 480. Was thinking of staying Radeon and getting a Rx Vega 64 or maybe flipping to Nvidia for a 1080 or RTX 2070 or 2080.

I get to do this once and I have to live with the decision for the next couple of years. Help a brother out and give me some feedback on the Vive Pro and a card to go along with it.

Apppreciate any help.

Rylo


PS. Will upgrading my card make a big difference in the resolution/picture quality of the Vive Pro? Are things clear in there?
Another question... before pulling the trigger on the Vive Pro, would a jump from my current card RX 490 to the RTX 2080'ish improve CLARITY in my Rift?

I guess there are a few things to consider.

- Do you live in a region where the Samsung O / O+ is available? If so, this may be a better purchase.
- Does the Samsung O's inside out tracking meet your tracking requirements?
- If you purchased a Vive Pro would you be willing to swap out its lenses? Coming from a Rift you'll soon see that the Vive lenses are pure biowaste so the GearVR lens swap is almost a must do (not a nice thought that you'll be taking apart your expensive new purchase).
- Do you want wireless VR and are you willing to drop another £390 for it? I play a lot of SkyrimVR / Fallout 4 VR and wouldn't be without wireless now.

The Vive Pro with Gear VR lens mod and wireless adapter is a great god ray free HMD, but very costly.... The standard Vive Pro is a little bit of a let down, with its very small sweet spot and lenses that appear to be smeared with oil. Which for the price point leaves a sour taste in your mouth. The controllers also suck compared to the Rifts Touch controllers (not that you need them in Elite). The headset is very comfortable and the dual front cameras are very handy for viewing your surroundings from time to time.

I've not had any experience with either Samsung device (they are not available in the UK) so I cannot comment on the quality of its lenes, how large the sweet spot is or its overall comfort.

 

[cmdrrdmc]

Although... to play devils advocate... I’m the proud owner of the Odyssey, but am watching with interest the forthcoming eye tracking add on for the vive pro. Fov rendering might be the game changer we have been waiting for???

I am REALLY skeptical. It looks like they're integrating Tobii Eye Tracking into the headset.

https://connect.tobiipro.com/s/article/What-is-the-latency-of-my-eye-tracker?language=en_US

The Tobii Pro TX series show a typical latency between 27-33ms.

Considering we have 11.1 ms to generate each frame to hit 90 fps, I don't see how something with such high latency could work well. Abrash said foveated rendering with eye tracking is a 4-5 year problem, and HTC solves it less than a year later by stuffing some off-the-shelf tech into their headset? I really doubt it.

 

[CMDR Harada]

If you live near a large city with a Microsoft store you can try out most of the MS WMR headsets in store, and walk out with one right then-and-there. A great way to try before you buy. The one close to me lets you demo Space Pirate Trainer.

A great plus for the Samsung is the inside out tracking ( you won't need the tracking towers ), and the hand controllers come with the headset. It's an all in one package.

I got mine that way on a black Friday deal. Walked in, demo'd the unit, and walked out with a new unit on lunch break. Even had time left to eat at the food court.

Something to think about. No shipping, no shipping costs, no waiting for the delivery truck.

 

[HeavyGroovez]

I am REALLY skeptical. It looks like they're integrating Tobii Eye Tracking into the headset.

https://connect.tobiipro.com/s/article/What-is-the-latency-of-my-eye-tracker?language=en_US



Considering we have 11.1 ms to generate each frame to hit 90 fps, I don't see how something with such high latency could work well. Abrash said foveated rendering with eye tracking is a 4-5 year problem, and HTC solves it less than a year later by stuffing some off-the-shelf tech into their headset? I really doubt it.

A solid observation.

When we break down the render pipeline we can see that the lions share of the frametime budget is consumed by the native app presenting a rasterized rectilinear texture to the intermediate frame buffer, the resolution of which is determined by a multitude of resolution scale multipliers.

With foveated rendering we will see the death of render scale multipliers as full frame supersampling sinks to the bottom of the ocean.

The VR Api will derive the focal scene from the HMDs foveal tracking buffers and use variable sampling rate shaders on the submitted textures. The foveal area will be super scaled while the periphery gets the low res DLSS treatment.

 

[Sweet&Dandy]

I guess we will have to wait and see...