[Potential Solution]PvE Vs PvP in Open Play: Pilots Federation Rep & Restricted Matchmaking
- Thread starter Lateralus
- Start date
Interesting idea!
+1
Could be mixed with my Pilot Federation Bounty idea too.
Still waiting to see FDs stance on Crime and punishment though.
+1
Could be mixed with my Pilot Federation Bounty idea too.
Still waiting to see FDs stance on Crime and punishment though.
I actually really like these idea's; very well written; but unfortunately it isn't going to bring the explorer's into open.
Exploration is generally low hazard due to the distance travelled from civilized space; so I wont argue about the risks of being interdicted on the frontier.
However there are significant risks when returning to civilized space to hand in your exploration data; some of which could be weeks or even months of real game time. To lose it all by having your lightweight (and often slow) explorer blown up by some player is simply not worth going into open for; the risk to reward ratio when entering civilized space in open can't be plotted on the same graph.
The problem with exploration is that it is a monstrous time sink in which a single death means the loss of all that time and effort; I realize that traders/miners can lose a huge amount of money with a full cargo load, but I doubt that it would take weeks to recover from the loss of a single death.
The fact that they have the most to lose, also makes them a great target for those griefers as you are obviously going to get the best response from them. Really easy to spot as well, paint degrades due to the large distances travelled exploring systems, so an explorer ship that is heavily 'weathered' makes for a juicy target indeed.
I've actually thought about it myself to try and find incentives to bring explorers into open play; For example doubling the financial rewards for all exploration data collected and sold while in open (with a single switch to solo resetting the 100% bonus to'exploration data collected in open', or even at the extreme end, you lose your data); although as an explorer myself money isn't a particularly great motivator (it pays very poorly anyway, so I doubt many explorers do it for the money).
If something can be done to help mitigate the data losses that explorers face on a single death, and bring them to the point where they hurt but are not devastating; then open might start looking like a worthwhile option with a few well thought out, fair open-mode exclusive rewards.
For example (I admit this idea isn't particularly well thought out, but just an example):
Friendly player groups in open that carry some sort of long range 'remote cartographics module' that could meet you out in the black and allow you to sell your data for a percentage of your profits (an adjustable rate that both parties agree on); these 'brokerage' groups could then contract friendly fighter wings like Iridium wing for protection creating some interesting and I think enjoyable experiences (eg Player friendly commanders protecting the explorer and the remote cartographics ship while they sell data).
You actually seem to have rather good ideas; and I generally like the direction you are going with them. I mean even griefers would probably love to have more targets in open, so getting more players into open is really a win for everyone.
Just need some more ideas to appeal to the greed of as many player types as you can and I'm sure you will get great support
Exploration is generally low hazard due to the distance travelled from civilized space; so I wont argue about the risks of being interdicted on the frontier.
However there are significant risks when returning to civilized space to hand in your exploration data; some of which could be weeks or even months of real game time. To lose it all by having your lightweight (and often slow) explorer blown up by some player is simply not worth going into open for; the risk to reward ratio when entering civilized space in open can't be plotted on the same graph.
The problem with exploration is that it is a monstrous time sink in which a single death means the loss of all that time and effort; I realize that traders/miners can lose a huge amount of money with a full cargo load, but I doubt that it would take weeks to recover from the loss of a single death.
The fact that they have the most to lose, also makes them a great target for those griefers as you are obviously going to get the best response from them. Really easy to spot as well, paint degrades due to the large distances travelled exploring systems, so an explorer ship that is heavily 'weathered' makes for a juicy target indeed.
I've actually thought about it myself to try and find incentives to bring explorers into open play; For example doubling the financial rewards for all exploration data collected and sold while in open (with a single switch to solo resetting the 100% bonus to'exploration data collected in open', or even at the extreme end, you lose your data); although as an explorer myself money isn't a particularly great motivator (it pays very poorly anyway, so I doubt many explorers do it for the money).
If something can be done to help mitigate the data losses that explorers face on a single death, and bring them to the point where they hurt but are not devastating; then open might start looking like a worthwhile option with a few well thought out, fair open-mode exclusive rewards.
For example (I admit this idea isn't particularly well thought out, but just an example):
Friendly player groups in open that carry some sort of long range 'remote cartographics module' that could meet you out in the black and allow you to sell your data for a percentage of your profits (an adjustable rate that both parties agree on); these 'brokerage' groups could then contract friendly fighter wings like Iridium wing for protection creating some interesting and I think enjoyable experiences (eg Player friendly commanders protecting the explorer and the remote cartographics ship while they sell data).
You actually seem to have rather good ideas; and I generally like the direction you are going with them. I mean even griefers would probably love to have more targets in open, so getting more players into open is really a win for everyone.
Just need some more ideas to appeal to the greed of as many player types as you can and I'm sure you will get great support
Thanks!
Yeah, I understand... an explorer risks losing weeks or months worth of work by being destroyed, so it's unlikely most of them will run the risk by returning to the bubble in Open (though it probably depends how long they've been away).
However, this idea is based on a numbers game - if it was in place we would see more non-combat players in open overall, because a lot of them crave more interaction with other players.
My bet is a lot of returning explorers would hop back into open after selling their data, whereas at the moment it's likely a lot of them will stay in solo or private groups.
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If you always stay in random backwater systems, seeing other players is a rarity (unless you're in the Pleiades Nebula of course). To see other players, head to community goal systems, Powerplay control/capital systems, engineer systems or historic/famous systems (Sol, Sirius, Lave, Maia etc).
If you still don't see anyone, you may have a router/networking issue.
I'm sorry but none of that will work. Unless you are ready to offer the players in Mobius the same protections they receive there, they will simply be no reason for them to move back to Open.
Why should they?
Right now they can fly anywhere they want and do anything without the threat of losing their ship to another player. I have talked to many of them and no amount of reputation matching or financial incentives will convince them otherwise. These things are not the problem. What they fear the most is a player coming in and destroying their ship and then posting a YouTube video to laugh at them. No one wants to be a victim even in a video game, so they will do pretty much anything not to become one. This is just human nature.
Make the High Security Areas in Open as safe as Mobius, is the only way I see convincing any of them to come back.
(And now my idea on the subject to add to the ever growing pile...)
Mechanic: When a player starts an interdiction on another player, the player being interdicted gets access to an Emergency Distress Button. This should be a single keystroke command and can be used any time from when the interdiction starts until that player leaves the instance that was created by the interdiction. This Emergency Distress Button works like speed dialing emergency services, and depending on the security level of the system, different levels of response will be received. These can be setup so this can be tweaked over time, if exploits are found to balance the mechanic. The reason for the button is of course to give the player being interdicted the choice of receiving the help or not.
The proposed responses would be something like this.
High Security Level System - The player interdicting would be immediately greeted by 3 security ships to everyone in that player's wing, dropping into the same instance. These wouldn't be normal NPC's, but those murder NPC's with full access to the engineering mods etc.., sufficient to destroy the player(s) doing the interdicting. Giving the one interdicted the ability to sit and video record.
(suitable for posting to YouTube so they can be laughed at for trying to interdict players in High Security Space.)
Medium Security Level System - The player interdicting would be immediately greeted by 1 security ship to everyone in that player's wing, dropping into the same instance. These wouldn't be normal NPC's, but those murder NPC's with full access to the engineering mods etc.., sufficient to destroy the player(s) doing the interdicting. Giving the one interdicted time to escape while the player(s) interdicting would have to deal with those ships. This would be one level of risk higher of course with ships being 1 on 1.
Low Security Level Systems - The player interdicting would be immediately greeted by 1 security ship to everyone in that player's wing, dropping into the same instance. These would be normal NPC's. the one interdicted will have less time to escape while the player(s) interdicting would have an easier time to deal with those ships. This would be one level of risk higher of course with ships being 1 on 1 and being normal NPCs will be much easier to take out.
Lawless Security level System - No response by Emergency Services.
Anarchy Security Level Systems - No response by Emergency Services.
So if you keep to the High Security Systems, you will never lose your ship to another player. Without this guarantee anything else will simply not work.
Why should they?
Right now they can fly anywhere they want and do anything without the threat of losing their ship to another player. I have talked to many of them and no amount of reputation matching or financial incentives will convince them otherwise. These things are not the problem. What they fear the most is a player coming in and destroying their ship and then posting a YouTube video to laugh at them. No one wants to be a victim even in a video game, so they will do pretty much anything not to become one. This is just human nature.
Make the High Security Areas in Open as safe as Mobius, is the only way I see convincing any of them to come back.
(And now my idea on the subject to add to the ever growing pile...)
Mechanic: When a player starts an interdiction on another player, the player being interdicted gets access to an Emergency Distress Button. This should be a single keystroke command and can be used any time from when the interdiction starts until that player leaves the instance that was created by the interdiction. This Emergency Distress Button works like speed dialing emergency services, and depending on the security level of the system, different levels of response will be received. These can be setup so this can be tweaked over time, if exploits are found to balance the mechanic. The reason for the button is of course to give the player being interdicted the choice of receiving the help or not.
The proposed responses would be something like this.
High Security Level System - The player interdicting would be immediately greeted by 3 security ships to everyone in that player's wing, dropping into the same instance. These wouldn't be normal NPC's, but those murder NPC's with full access to the engineering mods etc.., sufficient to destroy the player(s) doing the interdicting. Giving the one interdicted the ability to sit and video record.
(suitable for posting to YouTube so they can be laughed at for trying to interdict players in High Security Space.)
Medium Security Level System - The player interdicting would be immediately greeted by 1 security ship to everyone in that player's wing, dropping into the same instance. These wouldn't be normal NPC's, but those murder NPC's with full access to the engineering mods etc.., sufficient to destroy the player(s) doing the interdicting. Giving the one interdicted time to escape while the player(s) interdicting would have to deal with those ships. This would be one level of risk higher of course with ships being 1 on 1.
Low Security Level Systems - The player interdicting would be immediately greeted by 1 security ship to everyone in that player's wing, dropping into the same instance. These would be normal NPC's. the one interdicted will have less time to escape while the player(s) interdicting would have an easier time to deal with those ships. This would be one level of risk higher of course with ships being 1 on 1 and being normal NPCs will be much easier to take out.
Lawless Security level System - No response by Emergency Services.
Anarchy Security Level Systems - No response by Emergency Services.
So if you keep to the High Security Systems, you will never lose your ship to another player. Without this guarantee anything else will simply not work.
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There is; more players to interact with... If this was not the case, Mobius players would not be calling for an Open PvE mode all the time. Sure, a lot of the hardcore Mobius players would stay there, but they probably wouldn't accept anything less than full Open PvE mode, which as I stated in my original OP - is too problematic to implement. Compromise is the way forward, not digging heals in.
My solution would allow players to enter high-sec areas relatively risk-free as all the player killers would be in another instance. Mobius is not 100% safe anyway because people can ignore the rules (yes they get kicked, but this is post-event).
This seems like an unnecessarily complicated version of 'report crimes against me', why not just have the cops show up after the interdiction instead of assault?
PvP players have proven time and time again that security response is not dangerous enough to protect a player from being killed by a fully engineered player-killer. Even a wing of fully engineered ships cannot kill such a player quick enough to prevent the victim losing their ship. I'm a pirate, and I've been interdicted by full combat player wings all the time and always escape. The only way to guarantee you do not die to a PK is not to instance with them in the first place.