Power play merits - player kills

[Razeth]

Why not make player kills worth something extraordinary? Say make it based on combat rank, their rank in the pp faction/major faction. Maybe require 100 player kills to get to Rank 5. Something to encourage killing players instead of mindlessly killing NPCs. I'm impressed with the AI changes in 1.3 but harder ships/more repair costs isn't really what I personally am looking for from this game.

I would also challenge the fact that anyone actually WANTS to run 10 cargo merit runs on a timer to help their faction. There HAS to be some more interesting way of doing this. I have 5 friends who play Elite with me. We've been playing about 200 hours in total since the steam release. Since 1.3 we have not all been on at the same time. The one time we tried to do something with 4 of us we wound up getting bounties in our pledged factions HOME system due to scanner issue fighting a pack of 7 ships.

This game is shooting itself in the foot left and right with incredibly boring non-immersive content and extreme amount of bugs.

 

[Roybe]

Because PC PvP is not where the developers want to take the game. It is in the game to provide something for PvP players to do. However, it is not a way to play the game that supports the dev created content. And will not be. PvP in this game is sides winning by collecting PvE trophies faster/better than the other side.

 

[Katkon]

Because PC PvP is not where the developers want to take the game. It is in the game to provide something for PvP players to do. However, it is not a way to play the game that supports the dev created content. And will not be. PvP in this game is sides winning by collecting PvE trophies faster/better than the other side.

I disagree. I think PP creates more potential for combat PVP. People just need to accept that the merit/credit rewards won't favor players over NPCs. The reward is the thrill of a good fight, and isn't that the main point in playing anything in PVP?!?

 

[Krieger]

If you only get excited by "killing" players, why don't you create a PvP-only private group? Or organize a tournament in an anarchic system (others have done something similar with banger races using Sidewinders racing around a station). All likeminded pilots can go to such events, you can even have an audience and you don't have to force other players to unwillingly serve as cannon fodder for your particular way of playing Elite.

 

[Razeth]

If that's the case then the game is going to fail pretty soon. If the non-pvp content was actually fun or immersive I might say differently. However, at the moment the gameplay is just so totally not compelling. There is absolutely no reason to play with other people beyond "I enjoy playing with them." The game is beautiful graphically but every system more or less looks about the same. I'm sure there are some cosmic gems of exploration with double black holes or something but for the most part the systems are almost identical.

I mean do you truly enjoy doing 10 cargo runs for 10 merits over and over? I just don't see how the systems in place in this game are going to keep anyone playing on a long term basis.

If my faction expands for example. Why do I really care? I can then get some sorta okay bonuses, a credit reward each cycle, and..... do the exact same thing getting merits into infinity?

- - - Updated - - -

I disagree. I think PP creates more potential for combat PVP. People just need to accept that the merit/credit rewards won't favor players over NPCs. The reward is the thrill of a good fight, and isn't that the main point in playing anything in PVP?!?

The point is the thrill of a good fight. Also though other games (to many to name) have created incentives around control of certain things that spawn player vs player conflicts. This could be done in Elite but there is nothing really to fight over so the underlying issue becomes why would I go fight some people other then to have a "good thrilling fight." This thus cuts down on the amount of pvp conflicts and we are back to the issue at hand that there is no reward/incentive/reason beyond my wanting something more challenging to engage in PvP.

Combine the fact that there is no real reason to PVP with non-immersive PvE content that is incredibly boring and I am trying to find reasons to pitch to my friends to keep playing the game with me.

 

[Razeth]

RIP Elite

 

[Krieger]

RIP Elite

Come on man, put some effort into it. Organise a PvP tournament or start a PvP private group. If your initiative is fun and fits into the Powerplay narrative (e.g. outcome of tournament determines who gets to marry Aisling Duval), it's likely Frontier will support it with GalNews articles to spread the word. Although Frontier will never turn Elite into Quake-with-spaceships, if your tournament becomes a success, who knows, maybe they'll put some extra PvP support in Elite.

 

[Dbrn47]

Because PC PvP is not where the developers want to take the game. It is in the game to provide something for PvP players to do. However, it is not a way to play the game that supports the dev created content. And will not be. PvP in this game is sides winning by collecting PvE trophies faster/better than the other side.

Yea.. here I was having a debate with someone last night saying that especially with PP, Solo players shouldn't affect Open Play since you can't kill players... My argument was, you don't have to kill other players to beat them in PP. Some people only understand killing other players when it comes to opposing them I guess. In any case, there seems to be plenty of people on open to fight with.

The problem with making player kills worth more is that it will promote more random killings and even camping. We have enough players flying under the banner of Pirate doing that without a system to reward them for doing so. It would be very controversial.

 

[Roybe]

I disagree. I think PP creates more potential for combat PVP. People just need to accept that the merit/credit rewards won't favor players over NPCs. The reward is the thrill of a good fight, and isn't that the main point in playing anything in PVP?!?

If the reward for killing an NPC is more than killing a PC...and the reward is used to push the Metagame...which one do you think is 'more important' related to a games design? Yes, the reward is a good fight...however, it is still more efficient to play in Private mode to accomplish the goals of CG's and PP than in Open.

People can accept the lesser rewards...but efficiency dictates that to win the weekly PP battle...NPC killing is more important than PK's.

 

[Roybe]

If that's the case then the game is going to fail pretty soon. If the non-pvp content was actually fun or immersive I might say differently. However, at the moment the gameplay is just so totally not compelling. There is absolutely no reason to play with other people beyond "I enjoy playing with them." The game is beautiful graphically but every system more or less looks about the same. I'm sure there are some cosmic gems of exploration with double black holes or something but for the most part the systems are almost identical.

I mean do you truly enjoy doing 10 cargo runs for 10 merits over and over? I just don't see how the systems in place in this game are going to keep anyone playing on a long term basis.

If my faction expands for example. Why do I really care? I can then get some sorta okay bonuses, a credit reward each cycle, and..... do the exact same thing getting merits into infinity?

- - - Updated - - -



The point is the thrill of a good fight. Also though other games (to many to name) have created incentives around control of certain things that spawn player vs player conflicts. This could be done in Elite but there is nothing really to fight over so the underlying issue becomes why would I go fight some people other then to have a "good thrilling fight." This thus cuts down on the amount of pvp conflicts and we are back to the issue at hand that there is no reward/incentive/reason beyond my wanting something more challenging to engage in PvP.

Combine the fact that there is no real reason to PVP with non-immersive PvE content that is incredibly boring and I am trying to find reasons to pitch to my friends to keep playing the game with me.

Tell them what compels you to keep playing. Just be honest about it. There IS good PvP in this game. However, it is not a game designed to favor PvP. PvP is between groups collecting PvE trophies. Think GW2 WvW type game. WVW allows for people to kill each other...it is just more 'profitable' to do the PvE objectives so PK players are few and far between. The same thing is going on here.

Now, complaints about how compelling the PvE offerings in this game are a very valid discussion. But that would be a discussion for another thread.

As far as the game's failure? Only time will tell...and the success or failure will be solely on the shoulders of the devs and their design choices. Our input will guide them....but it will never change the base way the game was designed. Debate is fun, but many things are non-negotiable... the base design of the game is one of these.

I do not consider myself a white hat for FDev...however, I do recognize that within any game, there are base rules that will never be changed. Monopoly can have 100000 different boards made for every city in the world...but the gameplay will always be Monopoly.

 

[Z Cochrane]

The way I see it is that the Merits, be it player or NPC should remain equal.
Why you ask, because as it has been said in previous posts, you are essentially protecting or fighting over NPCs. That is where the goal is, not with killing players, but stopping players killing your faction NPCs, in turn protecting your own. If you do this you reduce the effectiveness of the opposing powers merit gathering capabilities.
But all that is Open play dependent of course!

If you play in solo or private you negate the PvP aspect of it completely.
Would it not be unfair for people in solo to be awarded less than the people that play open? Hell yea it would!
It's about merits pure and simply. It does not matter whether someone PvP's or PvE's, its about numbers, that's it.