Powerplay Powerplay "meeting" with FD

[CMDR Sergeant Jezza]

It has come to my attention that several self-appointed powerplay "representatives" from various powers have hoped to set up a meeting with FD in order to influence developer decisions regarding powerplay.

Whilst I agree that the powerplay system could be much improved, this kind of lobbying by self-interested parties is unacceptable and should not influence FD policy.

I urge Frontier not to attend any meeting except one which is public. Being selected arbitrarily by whomever is organising the meeting should not be a requirement for being able to speak with the developers.

Regards,

Jezza

 

[Bigglesof206]

I have to disagree with you - although I can sympathise with your stance. At the moment FD appear to have little understanding of how Powerplay ACTUALLY works, they know what they WANT it to be, but the players haven't followed the script - by organising themselves the powerplay faction Reddit groups have done more with the mechanic that FD appear to have expected That FD don't actually realise what they created was evident in their response to the two hour tick problem - it raised a number of issues, amongst which was that the tick time was actually critical to the contest between powers, who had (perhaps wrongly) become accustomed to relying on the tick taking place when it should. Another was the initially somewhat lighthearted response from the dev when FD replied to the concerns - I don't think that showed any malice, it just illustrated that the players had a much greater undertsanding of just how much had been broken than the dev team had.

As a consequence, if PP is to survive - which at the moment looks a bit of a moot point - somebody who DOES have a good understanding of how PP actually works needs to be consulted, to allow the dev team to catch up. By making this a selection of reps from across all powers, and using the reddit leadership, they have the best chance of learning how PP actually operates, whilst the multi party approach should ensure no power gets to inject any sort of Easter egg to exploit later.

I would suggest that following any such discussion FD go away and think about things, then hold a more public discussion with the greater game population before going firm on how they intend to resolve things. To start with the 'ask everyone' approach is going to produce a lot of noise, and FD don't currently seem to understand things well enough to be able to sort the wheat from the chaff. You are not going to get a coherent strategy for fixing things by listening to 5000 different people, and as discussions on the powerplay forum area have amply shown in the past, not actually taking part in powerplay never yet stopped people from joining in threads to tell FD what they ought to do with it.

Dave

 

[CMDR Sergeant Jezza]

I agree, except for the fact that these "representatives" aren't the people who best understand powerplay. There needs to be a better way for FD to talk to people who know about it rather than some people who someone picked for some reason.

FD needs to be talking to the people who have quit powerplay, and asking them why they did and what could be changed about it, and that's not what would happen here. The people they would be talking to are those who are actively playing powerplay and most likely pretty happy with it - the worst possible people to talk to.

 

[Rubbernuke]

I think it's pretty well known what needs to be changed. Although I'm not attending, I play a lot, but have a loooooooong list of flaws, bugs and recommendations.

 

[BeBoP]

Those are wild assumptions Jeeza. I think it's wise to consult the powerplay veterans because:

- they know what are the tendencies: what uninformed people seem to do vs what organized people can do: thanks to statistics
- they are the most aware of their power's history
- they together regroup very large communities and speak their voice. It's easier to talk to unified group instead of scattered individuals
- they have been in touch with a lot of players and understand how people feel about powerplay. This includes people who have left it.

In the meantime, it could be argued that people who left are those who do not care all that much about powerplay. Perhaps those that are still active are those who saw the true potential and just won't let go. I don't know.

What I do know, is that there wouldn't be such an incredible opportunity if it weren't for the veterans outcry.

 

[xDreadnoughtx]

I agree, except for the fact that these "representatives" aren't the people who best understand powerplay. There needs to be a better way for FD to talk to people who know about it rather than some people who someone picked for some reason.

FD needs to be talking to the people who have quit powerplay, and asking them why they did and what could be changed about it, and that's not what would happen here. The people they would be talking to are those who are actively playing powerplay and most likely pretty happy with it - the worst possible people to talk to.

Nope and yes. Some of them know more than virtually anyone else. Some of them think they do. Some of them accept they have not got a clue. Most of them will be trying to shout out their agenda louder than everyone else.

Fact is, what ought to happen is a calm agreement between the reps of what the facts and ways forward are before the meeting. That ain't going to happen.

I predict some people in that meeting will develop such a sense of "my word is truth" that they will implode with the gravity of their own pomposity.

Then again, maybe the outcome will be unicorns, new born babies and fluffy kittens.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Those are wild assumptions Jeeza. I think it's wise to consult the powerplay veterans because:

- they know what are the tendencies: what uninformed people seem to do vs what organized people can do: thanks to statistics
- they are the most aware of their power's history
- they together regroup very large communities and speak their voice. It's easier to talk to unified group instead of scattered individuals
- they have been in touch with a lot of players and understand how people feel about powerplay. This includes people who have left it.

In the meantime, it could be argued that people who left are those who do not care all that much about powerplay. Perhaps those that are still active are those who saw the true potential and just won't let go. I don't know.

What I do know, is that there wouldn't be such an incredible opportunity if it weren't for the veterans outcry.

And I bow to this above. I'm so bitter

 

[CMDR Sergeant Jezza]

Those are wild assumptions Jeeza. I think it's wise to consult the powerplay veterans because:

- they know what are the tendencies: what uninformed people seem to do vs what organized people can do: thanks to statistics
- they are the most aware of their power's history
- they together regroup very large communities and speak their voice. It's easier to talk to unified group instead of scattered individuals
- they have been in touch with a lot of players and understand how people feel about powerplay. This includes people who have left it.

In the meantime, it could be argued that people who left are those who do not care all that much about powerplay. Perhaps those that are still active are those who saw the true potential and just won't let go. I don't know.

What I do know, is that there wouldn't be such an incredible opportunity if it weren't for the veterans outcry.

Yeah, and that's fine, IF people were being selected on that basis. They're not though.

 

[Pardot Kynes]

I've been playing since the kickstart - is this PowerPants thing still going? I thought it was some huge misdirection of effort that was quietly being forgotten about.

 

[Quantrix]

It has come to my attention that several self-appointed powerplay "representatives" from various powers have hoped to set up a meeting with FD in order to influence developer decisions regarding powerplay.

Whilst I agree that the powerplay system could be much improved, this kind of lobbying by self-interested parties is unacceptable and should not influence FD policy.

I urge Frontier not to attend any meeting except one which is public. Being selected arbitrarily by whomever is organising the meeting should not be a requirement for being able to speak with the developers.

Agreed.

As an example, is there anyone in those meetings who plays in Solo and Solo only? If not, there is an obvious bias and the group will not be representative for the community.

There is no need of an overhaul, no need to increase merits in Open, or any of the wild ideas floating around here. Just fix bugs and display the overhead in the various GUI so people can make informed decisions. Once that is done, PP would be good enough to play.

 

[CMDR Sergeant Jezza]

I've been playing since the kickstart - is this PowerPants thing still going? I thought it was some huge misdirection of effort that was quietly being forgotten about.

Haha. Yeah, Powerplay has been going for just over a year now. However, many players have been having issues with it recently; myself and many other players have semi-retired from it recently in the face of these issues.

 

[jprelph]

Agreed.

As an example, is there anyone in those meetings who plays in Solo and Solo only? If not, there is an obvious bias and the group will not be representative for the community.

There is no need of an overhaul, no need to increase merits in Open, or any of the wild ideas floating around here. Just fix bugs and display the overhead in the various GUI so people can make informed decisions. Once that is done, PP would be good enough to play.

I think a lot of people who play PowerPlay a lot would disagree with you strongly on almost every point there. In terms of Solo play as well it's worth noting that FDev themselves have acknowledged that it is a lot easier to play PP in Solo - so it doesn't seem unfair if people playing a harder game had a slight extra reward for that.

FDev have the figures available for where people are putting in the most effort/work in PowerPlay so they should be able to make the judgement about how to weight whatever is discussed.

 

[CMDR Sergeant Jezza]

I think a lot of people who play PowerPlay a lot would disagree with you strongly on almost every point there. In terms of Solo play as well it's worth noting that FDev themselves have acknowledged that it is a lot easier to play PP in Solo - so it doesn't seem unfair if people playing a harder game had a slight extra reward for that.

FDev have the figures available for where people are putting in the most effort/work in PowerPlay so they should be able to make the judgement about how to weight whatever is discussed.

That's the thing though - there are so many different viewpoints from different people that it just doesn't make sense to limit this meeting to a certain demographic of people.

 

[Quantrix]

I think a lot of people who play PowerPlay a lot would disagree with you strongly on almost every point there.

Which makes it a valid question whether my points are represented at all in the meeting!

In terms of Solo play as well it's worth noting that FDev themselves have acknowledged that it is a lot easier to play PP in Solo - so it doesn't seem unfair if people playing a harder game had a slight extra reward for that.

FDev hasn't acknowledged that. There is exactly one post by one person that says so. And after the storm that it became, it was never mentioned again.

And talking about harder: Playing in a wing is much easier than without a wing. Solo players can't play in a wing, so have a harder time and - using your reasoning - they should be compensated for that.

But that's just rehashing what the eternal discussion in the Open vs Solo threads goes on about.

FDev have the figures available for where people are putting in the most effort/work in PowerPlay so they should be able to make the judgement about how to weight whatever is discussed.

What if a lot of players play in Solo, but none in the meeting? Would it be representative at all?

 

[jprelph]

That's the thing though - there are so many different viewpoints from different people that it just doesn't make sense to limit this meeting to a certain demographic of people.

No but it does make sense to at least get a handle on the problems first from the people who are putting the most time in. That doesn't mean that this leads to any definitive statement or agreement but given that there seems such a disconnect between what FDev think PP is and how it's being played then I don't think an initial meeting like this is problematic if it's an initial meeting.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

FDev hasn't acknowledged that. There is exactly one post by one person that says so.

You know who that person was though, right?

 

[Bigglesof206]

Again I can see your point, but tend to disagree with it - in an ideal world we'd run this democratically and vote on who we wanted to represent us, probably voting within each power, each power 'sending' two or maybe three reps to the meeting. Unfortunately I really can't see that happening,can you? I'm presuming that the 'self appointed' PP reps involved are reps from the Reddit groups? (I have no idea, I mean to say - if it's actually the graduating class from a local Mime school who's going then I'm bang on your side in protesting).

I'm rather more strongly against Quantrix view - I play in Mobius mostly (although I have been sneaking around Open a bit lately, but don't tell anyone or I'll be thrown out of the Carebear club), but I think PP's problems transcend modes - an effective solution shouldn't need to work in open only, or solo only, etc. Nor do I think the only fix we need is a better GUI - it would certainly help to an extent, but it'd be more help to those who already knew what they were doing....the uninformed Groombridge grinder (or even worse the guy who knows what he's doing but is only in it for easy credits) won't be any better informed because they're not looking at the screen in the first place. To apply some really simplistic logic, FD just about broke PP this past week - it's certainly had problems before, but Thursday was an order of magnitude worse, and I fail to see how reworking the GUI would have made the slightest difference.

Dave

 

[Pardot Kynes]

I wouldn't get paranoid. It is probably just an FD led major faction of favoured players, like vassals, with FD pulling all the levers for them. I'm sure it will work out fine.

What is PowerPlay by the way? Is it that malarkey where you ship 600 million tonnes of margarine to support a vegan settlement's uprising against a butter cartel?

 

[Quantrix]

FDev hasn't acknowledged that. There is exactly one post by one person that says so. And after the storm that it became, it was never mentioned again.

You know who that person was though, right?

Yes, I do. Does it matter, as he included lots of weasel words and caveats, so it was far from a promise to do so.

My point that it was one post only and never mentioned again still stands.

 

[CMDR Sergeant Jezza]

Again I can see your point, but tend to disagree with it - in an ideal world we'd run this democratically and vote on who we wanted to represent us, probably voting within each power, each power 'sending' two or maybe three reps to the meeting. Unfortunately I really can't see that happening,can you? I'm presuming that the 'self appointed' PP reps involved are reps from the Reddit groups? (I have no idea, I mean to say - if it's actually the graduating class from a local Mime school who's going then I'm bang on your side in protesting).

We don't know - there hasn't been any transparency whatsoever from anyone about it. That's what worries me.

 

[Quantrix]

[..] Thursday was an order of magnitude worse, and I fail to see how reworking the GUI would have made the slightest difference.

Nice strawman.

I said "fix bugs and improve GUI." Last Thursday clearly falls under the "fix bugs" part.

 

[jprelph]

Yes, I do. Does it matter, as he included lots of weasel words and caveats, so it was far from a promise to do so.

My point that it was one post only and never mentioned again still stands.

Just because someone only mentioned something once doesn't suddenly make it untrue - and I'm not sure what the "promise to do so" relates to - I hadn't discussed any proposed solutions so that seems a little bit of a non sequitur in this thread.