Powerplay Profit Misconception!

[Comrade Napoleon]

Just for my own edification, I whipped up some napkin math. Using a type 9 with 500 cargo, hauling 50 free merits every half hour, and buying the 450 (and then 500) merits goods, then hauling back a 1400 cr / t cargo (not all too difficult, i found one on my first try) and factoring in a 16-17 minute round trip (reasonable from my experience) you wind up with an 8.1 million deficit per trip. Maintaining rank is 5334 merits, but we'll assume you just need 5k, because what's a little bit of combat anyway? So that means 5 round trips at 16 minutes each, 80 minutes, or 1.33 hours. (BTW, merits still scale with level- it's not 100k to fast track your current order, it's still 10k credits to fast track 1 commodity, so half a mil to fast track 50 commodities).

Anyway, what that gives is a net deficit of 40.5 million credits, and then a gain of 50 mil at the end of the week, for a net profit of 9.5 million. (The 1400 cr/t profit was rolled into the cycle cost) for a time investment of 1.333 hours, or just over 7.14 million per hour. The profit goes up if you take a bit longer of a route or don't grind it all at once- in my model, every other trip is buying 1 set of commodities rather than waiting 14 minutes for it to be free (for a net gain of a mere 2.5 million credits, but that bumps it up to 9 million per hour, PROVIDING you do things in the mean time- you'd have to go out and do some BH'ing in the system for 14 minutes or so every other time).

Point is, this is a bunch of work for next to no real reward compared to what is normally easily achievable, and the only real benefit to having rating 5 is the rating 5 specific bonus (since rating 4 doesn't give anything either).

That's really the lynchpin of whether you should maintain rating 5 or not, not the profit. (oh, and i guess RP or whatever too, if you're invested in the storyline).


(anyway, the worked-out profit per hour is just my main reason why the 'merit earned' decay is the proper model).

The big questionis : do I play this game to become a Math teacher ( I could if I wanted) or do I play it because I want to relax and chat with mates and have fun ?
Guess !
Yes you win the 64 000 credit prize !
I want to have fun.
PP is not engaging = no fun
Simple
Cheers Cmdr's

 

[jay88]

Obviously there's a big difference. Which one is right? We'll find out in a couple of weeks, unless someone from FD wishes to clarify.

Good luck with that. I've had a thread up, I've even argued my case with a mod, all quiet on the FD front.

Check the math i posted earlier for why it is more than likely the first scenario.

 

[RingoD123]

Well I came up with this example which states why I believe my method to be correct:
other way:
week 1 = 100 merits
week 2(half of week 1) = 50 merits
week 3 (half of week 2 and quarter of week 1)=(25 + 25) = 50 (NO DECAY)
week 4 (half week 3 + quarter week 2 + eighth week 1) = (25 + 12.5 + 12.5) = 50 (NO DECAY)
week 5 (half week 4, quarter week 3, + eighth week 2) = (25 +12.5 + 6.75) = 43.25

so using this way you manage to keep 50 merits for week 2, 3 and 4 if you only ever put 100 merits into week 1 and then none ever after. So how come theres no decay in weeks 3 and 4? so after losing your original 50 merits you wouldn't lose any more merits until 3 weeks later when you only lose 7 more.

my way:
week 1 = 100 merits
week 2 (half of week 1) = 50 merits
week 3 (quarter of week 1) = 25 merits
week 4 = (eighth of week 1) = 13 merits

which seems like the most likely way for merits to decay?

 

[stevesideas]

you can (I have) make 400-500 merits per hour just by undermining opposing powers, add that to your 30 merit cargo every 30 mins and its not that hard to acheieve in only a few weeks. And once you have received that first 50M you would be making 37.5M per week for 4 or 5 cargo runs of merits (if the decay worked the way some people believe), where as it makes much more sense that if you want to throw credits at it to get your rank that you would need to actually pay out a total of 6.25M (after reaching rank 5) credits per week to keep your rank 5 perk.

Fairly new to powerplay but would I have to destroy vessels that are classed as enemy in a system that was being fortified by another faction ?

 

[jgm]

Good luck with that. I've had a thread up, I've even argued my case with a mod, all quiet on the FD front.

Sometimes FD is very frustrating. This is the type of information which is hardly confidential, secretive or game-changing. It's just a bit of the rules of powerplay that we have yet to encounter but for now good reason they wish to withhold.[/QUOTE]

Check the math i posted earlier for why it is more than likely the first scenario.

I think you've analysed the situation far more than FD did; I think it's still a coin toss as to which way it goes.

 

[RingoD123]

Fairly new to powerplay but would I have to destroy vessels that are classed as enemy in a system that was being fortified by another faction ?

yeah go to the powerplay map and select an enemy power (better to pick a power not aligned to the same major faction, just in case), select one of the systems they have under control and click on the powerplay button, it will give you the name of the ships you need to destroy in that system to receive 15 merits per ship, they even fly around in wings of 3 haulers etc.
Now whats even more interesting is that once you are in that powers control system, you can actually kill ANY enemy powers ships for 15 merits (pretty sure its a bug) as long as they state they are aligned with an enemy (e.g. torvals shield, aislings angels, kumo crew etc).

edit: yeah you have to pull said ships out of supercruise, no nav beacon hunting them etc, so buy an interdictor. I had never interdicted before this and now I have a 1M bounty on my head in Archon Delaines territories :-D

 

[MVP_Bluntman]

I believe their intention was the scaled system, rather than the Fixed Numbers system which was clearly rushed. Every power can be used as a benefit for certain game modes, however there are a few that are limited by bugs, one of those is Hudson, because RES sites and their spawn system being completely borked.

 

[RingoD123]

I believe their intention was the scaled system, rather than the Fixed Numbers system which was clearly rushed. Every power can be used as a benefit for certain game modes, however there are a few that are limited by bugs, one of those is Hudson, because RES sites and their spawn system being completely borked.

yeah im with Aisling and she doesn't spawn her ships in her control systems so she cant be undermined :-D
funny how hardly anyone is kicking up a stink about it though

 

[jay88]

Fairly new to powerplay but would I have to destroy vessels that are classed as enemy in a system that was being fortified by another faction ?

yep, although you'll have to pull them out of supercruise, i think, i haven't seen any around nav beacons or anything. you can destroy any power's ships, btw (you'll learn the names quick, like sirius transport/security or kumo crew etc..) in hostile territory and get vouchers for 15 merits, it doesn't have to be a specific ship tied to the faction whose system you're in.

 

[Andromalius]

Op's math is correct according to the manual.
Then, there is the second possibility envisioned here. We'll see what happens when the weeks have actually elapsed and we have witnessed what happens.
Because it is a definite possibility it does NOT happen as written in the manual.

 

[Alexios Komnenos]

Well I came up with this example which states why I believe my method to be correct:
other way:
week 1 = 100 merits
week 2(half of week 1) = 50 merits
week 3 (half of week 2 and quarter of week 1)=(25 + 25) = 50 (NO DECAY)
week 4 (half week 3 + quarter week 2 + eighth week 1) = (25 + 12.5 + 12.5) = 50 (NO DECAY)
week 5 (half week 4, quarter week 3, + eighth week 2) = (25 +12.5 + 6.75) = 43.25

so using this way you manage to keep 50 merits for week 2, 3 and 4 if you only ever put 100 merits into week 1 and then none ever after. So how come theres no decay in weeks 3 and 4? so after losing your original 50 merits you wouldn't lose any more merits until 3 weeks later when you only lose 7 more.

my way:
week 1 = 100 merits
week 2 (half of week 1) = 50 merits
week 3 (quarter of week 1) = 25 merits
week 4 = (eighth of week 1) = 13 merits

which seems like the most likely way for merits to decay?

You got it wrong here, it would be:

Week1 = +100 merit income (no decay)
Week2 = +0 merit income (no earning new merits) + 50 (week 1 income x0.5) = 50
Week3 = +0 merit income (no earning new merits) + 0 (week 2 income x 0.5)+ 25 (week 1 income x 0.5 x 0.5) = 25
Week4 = +0 merit income (no earning new merits) + 0 (week 3 income x 0.5)+ 0 (week 2 income x 0.5 x 0.5) + 12.5 (week 1 income x 0.5 x 0.5 x 0.5) =12.5
Week5 = +0 merit income (no earning new merits) + 0 (week 4 income x 0.5)+ 0 (week 3 income x 0.5 x 0.5) + 0 (week 2 income x 0.5 x 0.5 x 0.5)+ 0 (week 1 income vanishes into nothing by the 5th week) = 0

Each week's income is calculated separately. That's the only way the manual makes sense. So if you earned 100 merits each week, it would be:

Week1 = +100 merit income (no decay)
Week2 = +100 merit income + 50 (week 1 income x 0.5) = 150
Week3 = +100 merit income + 50 (week 2 income x 0.5) + 25 (week 1 income x 0.5 x 0.5) = 175
Week4 = +100 merit income + 50 (week 3 income x 0.5) + 25 (week 2 income x 0.5 x 0.5) + 12.5 (week 1 income x 0.5 x 0.5 x 0.5) = 187.5
Week5 = +100 merit income + 50 (week 4 income x 0.5) + 25 (week 3 income x 0.5 x 0.5) + 12.5 (week 2 income x 0.5 x 0.5 x 0.5) + 0 (week 1 income vanishes into nothing by the 5th week) = 187.5
Repeat ad infinitum as long as you earn 100 merits a week

So yes, you can buy your way to a profit.

 

[RingoD123]

FWIW I think you've got it right, Ringo - especially given that if it were possible to turn a profit from merely buying your way to merits... that would indicate to me a broken system.

But what I don't get is why they didn't go with something much more straight-forward like:

Each cycle you carry forward 50% of your previous total, the end. It works out basically the same as the current system as you've descibed it (Week 1 merits count for 100%, then 50%, then 25%, then 12.5% etc each successive week) except without any of the convoluted mess which has yielded nothing but utter confusion from everybody

Exactly! if they hadn't decided, for whatever arbitrary reason, to make your week 1 merits just disappear after 4 weeks, then this is exactly what the system im saying is already in would have been. No tricksy/unclear language to confuse people, no need for people to come up with their own theories,ideas etc of how it will work.
I guess they started taking everyones comments on how shallow the game is to heart, but unfortunately they decided that it was the equations themselves that needed to be less simple, rather than the gameplay.

- - - Updated - - -

snip.

sorry but you are misunderstanding my quote, the first portion is working our merit decay in the way that some other people believe it will work, the second part is the way I think it will work, I used 100 merits in week 1 and none in subsequent weeks for both tests.
and please, try your maths again where you get to 10k in week 1 and then keep yourself at a total of 10k every week after, you will see you cannot profit at all from this.

 

[MVP_Bluntman]

You can but you would have to maintain your merits by progressively buying merits, buying military supplies to fortify systems, buying intel, in order to reach such a rating other than combat anyways. Combat is the slowest way of merits, with 1 merit per ship.

 

[RingoD123]

You can but you would have to maintain your merits by progressively buying merits, buying military supplies to fortify systems, buying intel, in order to reach such a rating other than combat anyways. Combat is the slowest way of merits, with 1 merit per ship.

wrong, you can use combat to make 15 merits per kill, very easily. and you will never turn a profit by buying the bulk share of your merits, its designed to take money from people who want to skip the grind, not reward them.

 

[MVP_Bluntman]

So you will lose money regardless at first and you won't be able to profit unless you maintain a proper game style for weeks and weeks to come, but either way it's not profitable by much because it's not intended to be a main source of profit.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes you can, by going to hostile territory and killing hostile ships, however I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about military strikes.

- - - Updated - - -

Nope, you can if you use the bonuses to effect though, which is the point of doing it that way. Its no effort all reward style.

 

[RingoD123]

So you will lose money regardless at first and you won't be able to profit unless you maintain a proper game style for weeks and weeks to come, but either way it's not profitable by much because it's not intended to be a main source of profit.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes you can, by going to hostile territory and killing hostile ships, however I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about military strikes.

You will NEVER turn a profit from buying all your merits, its not just that you will lose money at first, the Op points this out perfectly (if I do say so myself), after 4 weeks you will be 112.5M down, and after that it will cost you an extra 6.25M per week to maintain your rank, that's buying 5625 Merits per week at a cost of 56.25M, only to get 50M back as abonus.

 

[DangerousLarry]

I don't think it's good. I think at the very least these trade agreements or legislative should stack up until X amount. Like 100T at a time? It should prove to be more fair for traders, not giving them an easy rating and rewarding those who play enough to get something from it without spending an arm and a leg doing so. As is the current system is lacking especially considering the only trade routes are outside of power play systems.

 

[Ian Phillips]

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