Powerplay should not be made Open-only. Here's why... [EDITED]

Genar-Hofoen

Genar-Hofoen
EDIT: Additional points added below the OP...

I posted this as a response to Sandro's thread, but it needs discussion here where normal replies can be made without incurring the wrath of breaking that Feedback section's rules..

Hi Sandro. I did some research.

Waaaaay back in Newsletter #72, Powerplay information was released on the 23rd April 2015.

https://us2.campaign-archive.com/?u=dcbf6b86b4b0c7d1c21b73b1e&id=b0a8ebba0b

In that newsletter, there is a quote from you...

"But for me the best reward is how Powerplay changes combat," Lead Designer Sandro Sammarco says. "The Pilots Federation waives all penalties for engaging invaders in combat during times of war, so you'll have license to attack anyone from a rival power in your own territory without incurring a bounty. We're giving players a reason to engage in PVP against supporters of other factions, and a chance to feel like part of a team even if you prefer to play alone.
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So yes, when Powerplay was designed, sure, part of the reasoning behind it was to give players a reason to engage in PvP. That's obvious.

But you also took players who don't play in Open into account - right from the birth of Powerplay - and that is the product a lot of your customers bought into.

To remove that content from users of the "Solo" and "Private Group" game client connectivity mode/filter after 3 years is, frankly, just not cricket, old chap.

Also this dispels this recent disinformation I've been reading from a number of posters that Powerplay was introduced solely for direct PvP players only. I don't know why that lie has been propagated - it's simply not true; the statement "giving players a reason to engage in PvP" did not mean "Powerplay is PvP-only content" back then. It meant only that it gave players a reason or purpose for PvP.

---------------------end of OP--------------

EDIT: Additional info from throughout the thread making more points...

Genar-Hofoen said:
I'll be the first to agree that Powerplay being affected in Open game client connectivity mode makes logical sense - that is, if Elite: Dangerous was based on a purely client-server architecture and not the peer-to-peer networking it is in fact based on.

Because it is based on peer-to-peer networking - that's exactly how you as a Steely-Eyed-PvP'er can see and shoot at other player ships - it is very possible to prevent your game client connecting with other game clients - which means that the unscrupulous players running bots, or wings of fellow players, can still do their stuff against the Power which you support - and you'd not see any of them even if they selected Open game client connectivity mode, because your game client is being prevented from networking with their game clients. On top of that, Frontier would be removing the Powerplay content from those who choose to play in the Solo and/or Private Group game client connectivity mode, for what would amount to no appreciable difference in the Powerplay outcome.

In fact - the main problem Powerplay has, is that it is being run within a peer-to-peer game architecture, nothing else. You are blaming the symptom (players and 'botters') , not the cause.
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Genar-Hofoen said:
No, the bot-runners will simply prevent their Open game client connectivity mode bots from connecting with other game clients. They'll still be playing in Open, but you'll simply not ever see them.

I don't know why the bot-runners never thought of that before - perhaps they already have and the bots which have been discovered, are just the tip of the iceberg.
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Genar-Hofoen said:
<snip>

I mentioned in an earlier post in this thread that I'd agree that making Powerplay Open-only would be a logical and good idea and would work as intended - if E: D was based on a client-server architecture.

However, ED is based on a p2p+server architecture, and I have pointed out that this renders the idea of making Powerplay Open-only, unworkable, such that players will find ways of utilising the P2P nature of the game in order to circumvent this proposed change.

In addition, I remind Sandro of what the intentions of Powerplay were when it was released - his recent statements contradict what he said in 2015 - I suspect he may have forgotten what he said - that is, that Powerplay gives players a reason for direct-PvP, which is now being contradicted by his more recent statement. It does him no harm reminding him of this.
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JosiahD

JosiahD
Agreed - Powerplay was always, to me at least, more like playing Risk in space - player groups using PvE mechanics to move pieces around the board. It was never going to be a pure combat-based mechanic. Making it open only won't change that as much as some may like to think.
 

znôrt

znôrt
Genar-Hofoen said:
I posted this as a response to Sandro's thread, but it needs discussion here where normal replies can be made without incurring the wrath of breaking that Feedback section's rules.
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i see no reason why your legitimate concern should be inappropriate in that thread. it's exactly the place where comments like yours were asked for.

unless ofc you just want to make noise ... :) then send me a pitchfork, i ran out ages ago!
 

True Phoenix

True Phoenix
"We're giving players a reason to engage in PVP against supporters of other factions, and a chance to feel like part of a team
even if you prefer to play alone"

Alone does not mean solo....

Ninja'd……. #5​
 
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Genar-Hofoen

Genar-Hofoen
Alonya Ruslana said:
Alone doesn't necessarily mean Solo mode. His quote doesn't mention modes at all.
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That's because at the time Powerplay was designed and released, all three game client connectivity modes were taken into account. The word "alone" meant playing alone in any of the three client connectivity modes.

Alonya Ruslana said:
I do Powerplay alone 100% of my time... All in Open.
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Playing it in Open is your choice. Playing it in solo or private game client connectivity mode is currently other paying customer's choice - and has been for 3 years. Suddenly removing that choice for paying customers who choose to not play in the open client connectivity mode, would be the wrong decision to make.
 

sollisb

Banned
S
Rob At Work said:
Personally I think this is FDevs response to the BOT PROBLEM.

Q is will it work?
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Absolutely not! Won't fix any of the 'claimed' BOT problem(s) if there actually are any.

Let's break it down;

BoT to play the PP? If it's open only, there is a higher chance to be interdicted. Answer; Logoff.

BoT to earn credits? No change.

Now lets ask another question; Given that solo/pg is a 'safe' realm to truck your PP gameplay, and then it's made Open only. What percentile of the existing solo/pg community are going to make the huge transfer to Open only? My guess a very small percentage.

This entire brain fart is a complete waste of time. But if the past is anything to go by, it'll also be a big mess.
 

Genar-Hofoen

Genar-Hofoen
sollisb said:
Absolutely not! Won't fix any of the 'claimed' BOT problem(s) if there actually are any.

Let's break it down;

BoT to play the PP? If it's open only, there is a higher chance to be interdicted. Answer; Logoff.

BoT to earn credits? No change.

Now lets ask another question; Given that solo/pg is a 'safe' realm to truck your PP gameplay, and then it's made Open only. What percentile of the existing solo/pg community are going to make the huge transfer to Open only? My guess a very small percentage.

This entire brain fart is a complete waste of time. But if the past is anything to go by, it'll also be a big mess.
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Indeed. Also, if one were the type who's clever enough to come up with a game bot which autoplays Powerplay, and if Frontier did decide to make it Open-only, it wouldn't take a lot of effort to ensure your bots are running on a system or internet connection configured to prevent other game clients connecting with the bot's game client.

Making Powerplay - or any other content for that matter - Open-only would be a pointless exercise. It would only take one person to publish how to configure routers and/or Windows Firewall to prevent other game clients connecting with your game client, to completely negate Frontier's intentions of the change.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
While of course, devs can change direction, this one is worrying.

I'd say rather than removing what exists, instead FD should create a new mode with a separate BGS/PP. Let those who don't want to be affected by PG/solo play in that mode, and leave the current modes as they are.
 

babelfisch

babelfisch
Alonya Ruslana said:
Alone doesn't necessarily mean Solo mode. His quote doesn't mention modes at all.

I do Powerplay alone 100% of my time... All in Open.
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You are right, alone doesn't necessarily mean Solo mode. And PvP doesn't necessarily mean Players versus Player. It could also mean Power Solos' Power.

/s
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
Genar-Hofoen said:
Making Powerplay - or any other content for that matter - Open-only would be a pointless exercise. It would only take one person to publish how to configure routers and/or Windows Firewall to prevent other game clients connecting with your game client, to completely negate Frontier's intentions of the change.
Click to expand...

That presumably would fall under the cateogry of being naughty according to the TOS. However, whether FD could detect this and determine it to be intentional is a big question.

On the other hand, firing up uTorrent and killing your bandwidth and ping so the matchmaker says "Hells, i'm not instancing you with anyone!" might be an option. I mean, i do sometimes torrent while playing, but there again, i'm rarely in open.
 

Requiem Mortis

Requiem Mortis
Taken in context with the rest of the sentance I think the 'Alone' was meant to convey not requiring you to join an active Power Play group and follow their directions or orders, I don't think Solo Mode is implied there at all.
 

babelfisch

babelfisch
Requiem Mortis said:
Taken in context with the rest of the sentance I think the 'Alone' was meant to convey not requiring you to join an active Power Play group and follow their directions or orders, I don't think Solo Mode is implied there at all.
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I think dedicated powerplay groups didn't even exist when that statement was made.
 

Genar-Hofoen

Genar-Hofoen
Agony_Aunt said:
While of course, devs can change direction, this one is worrying.

I'd say rather than removing what exists, instead FD should create a new mode with a separate BGS/PP. Let those who don't want to be affected by PG/solo play in that mode, and leave the current modes as they are.
Click to expand...

Or fork the game - keep Elite: Dangerous but turn it into a pure PvE co-op game with no direct PvP, and create a new Elite game called "Elite: Territorial War" with Open-only, no solo or private group, all direct PvP enabled, full on guilds etc. You could keep both game code branches more or less the same - all assets are the same. You'd just have two different types of game each suiting some very different playstyles, and potentially could mean more income for Frontier in terms of players choosing one version or the other depending on their preference. Existing customers of E: D could have their accounts moved (or de-duplicated!) on the new game for free if that's the game they're wanting to play.
 

Genar-Hofoen

Genar-Hofoen
Requiem Mortis said:
Taken in context with the rest of the sentance I think the 'Alone' was meant to convey not requiring you to join an active Power Play group and follow their directions or orders, I don't think Solo Mode is implied there at all.
Click to expand...

No Powerplay groups existed back then in 2015, because back then this was the announcement of the introduction of this new thing called Powerplay. So, no. :)
 
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