Powerplay v2 week 1 first impressions

Starting with the positive - I do want to emphasise that for me the positives of Powerplay are great and the negatives aren't personally a big deal in terms of having fun playing Powerplay on an hour-by-hour level.

As far as the moment-by-moment gameplay goes, I think it works well for me, it adds options, it adds a bit of extra interest to normal trading/combat/exploration - though the hostility of enemy systems could be higher - I didn't even feel like enemy Strongholds were threatening; below that is basically "well, it says Hostile and that's as bad as it gets".

There's a good mix of old and new activities - and even better, there's a niche for combined cargo-combat ships which is more effective than a single-role build. Planning how to do multiple scoring activities in a single trip and it being possible and effective is a great touch!

So for something to do in Elite Dangerous, it's great, and while there's obviously some balancing and bugfixing to do this is a really solid foundation for what might be the game feature I was least excited about on its initial announcement.

As expected, all the major flaws of Powerplay 1 - opacity of how to do stuff, it being possible (and easy) to harm your own power while doing the obvious things, the necessity for all productive action to go through a single coordinating player group, the encouragement of superpower-wide alliances, etc. - all that is completely gone and the strategic layer is a vast improvement. If you want a system, you take
it, if you want your enemy not to have a system you attack it, all pretty clear and doesn't need a giant spreadsheet.

But does it work as a bubble-wide battle?

So the strategic layer is also really good in general and obviously gets rid of the multiple major flaws of Poweprlay 1 ... but I think there's a slight balance issue - subtler than just "activity A is faster than activity B" - which should be looked at in the longer term.

As seen in the Thargoid War and the Political BGS, players collectively tend to prioritise defence over attack, all else equal, and try to avoid taking big risks/losses even if there's more to gain - and so we see in Week 1 - not very many systems have changed state, but what has, has generally changed to strengthen rather than weaken, with almost all powers improving their net position, most significantly. (And the main exception, caused by Antal losing control of Maia, is unlikely to be a regular occurrence)

It already doesn't take much to encourage players to "defend first" and Powerplay 2 takes things a lot further that way by making defensive actions easier and more profitable.

Fortification (and mostly also Acquisition) actions are commonly things players might do anyway and often intrinsically profitable even before the PP payouts: scan ships, profitable trading, bounty hunting, exploration (if it comes back!), mining ... even the more PP-specific ones which didn't do that much before like rares trading, search and rescue, fixing holo-projectors, etc. are generally things which are legal and the local minor faction will give you rep or money for. Even if you're not "playing Powerplay" so long as you're hanging around your own Power's territory you'll be gradually building up merits for you and reinforcements for the system
(Also, a lot of the higher-rank Powerplay bonuses to payouts only work in your own space, further encouraging sticking to it - especially if those bonuses boost merits!)

Undermining actions are generally deliberate and often personally costly in rep or money or both - low-value trades, illegal kills, various Odyssey settlement operations, sabotaging holo-projectors, donation missions. Someone just passing through another Power's territory - or even doing a bit of trading and bounty hunting there - will probably get no merits at all for it.
(it doesn't help in this respect that Mining and S&R activities for Undermining are either buggy or have some obscure undocumented condition)

So all of the 'passive' traffic is going to be pretty one-sided. But it's also of course easier to rank up and get merits through Fortification rather than Undermining, three of the five weekly tasks in Week 1 were Fortification and the same is true for me in Week 2, no-one wants to lose a key Stronghold/Fortified system and all its Exploited systems with it, etc.

Without more incentive to attack than defend - and combined with there being thousands of unoccupied systems which can be Acquired without a fight, there's a strong likelihood of most borders becoming walls of Fortified/Stronghold systems which would be an incredible slog to attack (and still easier to defend), and a de facto 12-way truce arriving because it's just easier not to.

Suggestions

I could of course be entirely wrong, and I certainly expect that not all of what I've said above would hold up if I made a similar post next week or next month - and "seeing how things turn out for a couple of months" once the most obvious imbalances are fixed would be sensible - but it doesn't seem like there's enough to encourage inter-power conflict. So, some thoughts about how that might happen...

I'm guessing that the current ultra-high thresholds to move a system are deliberate in the early balancing phase to stop overpowered actions destroying (or fortifying) the entire bubble. But hopefully once the balance between action types is in a good place, that will come down a bit. (Or the few currently fast actions are intended to be that fast, so the average merits/week count will go up a lot, perhaps). But on its own, this won't stop that extra pace being used to reinforce faster rather than attack faster.

There needs to be a lot more in the way of "passive" undermining actions that a player just wandering through an enemy system playing the game in a non-Powerplay way will do. They don't have to be the most effective per hour, of course, but something which puts a general "default" pressure on systems might help prevent stagnation. Things like the weekly bonus goals should also strongly encourage attack over defence, and it might be necessary to add some power rank bonuses which apply when attacking/in enemy territory too. (Reduced rebuy doesn't count)

There needs to be some strong encouragement to fight: perhaps a declaration that a list of N systems (positioned to ensure fights) are strategically important, and so whoever holds those systems on X date (which would need to be a few months away) will get a substantial bonus for everyone pledged to that Power for each key system held? I don't know - just something to encourage players to fight over the 9000 systems already in scope rather than gradually take the other 11,000...
 
My first impressions are much less sophisticated ;). I didn't have any contact with PP1, and I am not to deep into the happenings and mechanics of the political struggles and such. I am just a simple mercenary wanting to do stuff, so I got into PP2 with somewhat fresh eyes.

Just as a motivator to "do stuff", my first week of PP2 was fun, even if finding out how stuff works was somewhat confusing at times. I've said it before, all the little tasks available beyond "fly there, get a mission, do the mission, fly back" give me enough reason to... well do stuff.

While finding out how to get the best out of your merit progression is interesting, in the end I don't really care. I'm not a module shopper, and I don't care about leaderboards and ranks and stuff.

I am not qualified to say what needs improvement and where Frontier needs to balance, so I won't. Merit earning seems to need some balancing attention, at least for those who really care about ranking up and getting modules and stuff.
 
Starting with the positive - I do want to emphasise that for me the positives of Powerplay are great and the negatives aren't personally a big deal in terms of having fun playing Powerplay on an hour-by-hour level.

As far as the moment-by-moment gameplay goes, I think it works well for me, it adds options, it adds a bit of extra interest to normal trading/combat/exploration - though the hostility of enemy systems could be higher - I didn't even feel like enemy Strongholds were threatening; below that is basically "well, it says Hostile and that's as bad as it gets".

There's a good mix of old and new activities - and even better, there's a niche for combined cargo-combat ships which is more effective than a single-role build. Planning how to do multiple scoring activities in a single trip and it being possible and effective is a great touch!

So for something to do in Elite Dangerous, it's great, and while there's obviously some balancing and bugfixing to do this is a really solid foundation for what might be the game feature I was least excited about on its initial announcement.

As expected, all the major flaws of Powerplay 1 - opacity of how to do stuff, it being possible (and easy) to harm your own power while doing the obvious things, the necessity for all productive action to go through a single coordinating player group, the encouragement of superpower-wide alliances, etc. - all that is completely gone and the strategic layer is a vast improvement. If you want a system, you take
it, if you want your enemy not to have a system you attack it, all pretty clear and doesn't need a giant spreadsheet.

But does it work as a bubble-wide battle?

So the strategic layer is also really good in general and obviously gets rid of the multiple major flaws of Poweprlay 1 ... but I think there's a slight balance issue - subtler than just "activity A is faster than activity B" - which should be looked at in the longer term.

As seen in the Thargoid War and the Political BGS, players collectively tend to prioritise defence over attack, all else equal, and try to avoid taking big risks/losses even if there's more to gain - and so we see in Week 1 - not very many systems have changed state, but what has, has generally changed to strengthen rather than weaken, with almost all powers improving their net position, most significantly. (And the main exception, caused by Antal losing control of Maia, is unlikely to be a regular occurrence)

It already doesn't take much to encourage players to "defend first" and Powerplay 2 takes things a lot further that way by making defensive actions easier and more profitable.

Fortification (and mostly also Acquisition) actions are commonly things players might do anyway and often intrinsically profitable even before the PP payouts: scan ships, profitable trading, bounty hunting, exploration (if it comes back!), mining ... even the more PP-specific ones which didn't do that much before like rares trading, search and rescue, fixing holo-projectors, etc. are generally things which are legal and the local minor faction will give you rep or money for. Even if you're not "playing Powerplay" so long as you're hanging around your own Power's territory you'll be gradually building up merits for you and reinforcements for the system
(Also, a lot of the higher-rank Powerplay bonuses to payouts only work in your own space, further encouraging sticking to it - especially if those bonuses boost merits!)

Undermining actions are generally deliberate and often personally costly in rep or money or both - low-value trades, illegal kills, various Odyssey settlement operations, sabotaging holo-projectors, donation missions. Someone just passing through another Power's territory - or even doing a bit of trading and bounty hunting there - will probably get no merits at all for it.
(it doesn't help in this respect that Mining and S&R activities for Undermining are either buggy or have some obscure undocumented condition)

So all of the 'passive' traffic is going to be pretty one-sided. But it's also of course easier to rank up and get merits through Fortification rather than Undermining, three of the five weekly tasks in Week 1 were Fortification and the same is true for me in Week 2, no-one wants to lose a key Stronghold/Fortified system and all its Exploited systems with it, etc.

Without more incentive to attack than defend - and combined with there being thousands of unoccupied systems which can be Acquired without a fight, there's a strong likelihood of most borders becoming walls of Fortified/Stronghold systems which would be an incredible slog to attack (and still easier to defend), and a de facto 12-way truce arriving because it's just easier not to.

Suggestions

I could of course be entirely wrong, and I certainly expect that not all of what I've said above would hold up if I made a similar post next week or next month - and "seeing how things turn out for a couple of months" once the most obvious imbalances are fixed would be sensible - but it doesn't seem like there's enough to encourage inter-power conflict. So, some thoughts about how that might happen...

I'm guessing that the current ultra-high thresholds to move a system are deliberate in the early balancing phase to stop overpowered actions destroying (or fortifying) the entire bubble. But hopefully once the balance between action types is in a good place, that will come down a bit. (Or the few currently fast actions are intended to be that fast, so the average merits/week count will go up a lot, perhaps). But on its own, this won't stop that extra pace being used to reinforce faster rather than attack faster.

There needs to be a lot more in the way of "passive" undermining actions that a player just wandering through an enemy system playing the game in a non-Powerplay way will do. They don't have to be the most effective per hour, of course, but something which puts a general "default" pressure on systems might help prevent stagnation. Things like the weekly bonus goals should also strongly encourage attack over defence, and it might be necessary to add some power rank bonuses which apply when attacking/in enemy territory too. (Reduced rebuy doesn't count)

There needs to be some strong encouragement to fight: perhaps a declaration that a list of N systems (positioned to ensure fights) are strategically important, and so whoever holds those systems on X date (which would need to be a few months away) will get a substantial bonus for everyone pledged to that Power for each key system held? I don't know - just something to encourage players to fight over the 9000 systems already in scope rather than gradually take the other 11,000...
Nice writeup.

Personally I think tailoring the merits for attacking should be directed more at fortified and especially strongholds- so that a fortification kill = 50% more, and stronghold 100% more along with more advanced NPCs. Exploited should be 'noise' while the structural systems are made targets.

On top of that, illegal kills should be worth even more (given they are punished so heavily). They should really rack up merits so that if you want an impactful strike you can do it.

As for encouragement, perhaps a power wide 'morale' gauge- the more systems lost / gained acts as a modifier for merits earned - so a power expanding fast gets a boost. Or that there is a power wide bonus for retreating a stronghold carrier.
 
I just want them to fix/explain the mechanics we have:
  • I've still not found anywhere that will give merits for mining - even ones that explicitly say they should
  • Trade. Trading Medicines for Winters worked fine (less pay than Rares) - makes sense as Winters gives a bonus on Medicines. Now I get no merits since the trade nerf.
  • PP CZ. No merits if you make the slog to the end, so they're basically just a target environment. (Or if there were merits it wasn't obvious). And yes, it was a PP CZ.
  • If I can only undermine within 20 Ly after taking on PP mats then tell me. The current 'within Control Range' meant nothing to me.

Sounds negative, but I've been enjoying the stuff that works. I'd just like more options to work / make sense.
 
I think PP2 might be fun once it is out of Alpha.

Right now, so much is imbalanced or buggy. Add onto that the fact that everyone is in a loyalty merit grinding craze right now and goes where the merits are so the "strategic" aspect of the game is even less impactful than the new mechanics already allow. Finding loops that are both fun and yield any form of competitive merits to the "meta" in order to feel like you have any impact is not very easy.

My biggest issue i have is with the UI. From a player perspective it may be ok but for any kind of overview on what is happening, it is just terrible. The activity filter is a broken mess that shows inconsistent results with a minimalistic render distance. I wish we had the "War Room" view from the demo back in April but for some reason that and any numerical indicators were scrapped. The journal support is also bad, so 3rd party tools can only do so much and rely on jumping through systems to update even the most barebones data.

On top of that we get little to no comms from FDev. Back when we posted questions for the Q&A, I asked what the policy on dealing with live tuning, updates, and exploits/bugs that surface is going to be. The question was ignored and now there these very things required and we have silence with no clear policy.

I really like the principle and ideas of PP2. Some nice thoughts went into it. But I also find myself struggling with motivation in light of all these things.
 
  • PP CZ. No merits if you make the slog to the end, so they're basically just a target environment. (Or if there were merits it wasn't obvious). And yes, it was a PP CZ.

That's indeed a shame... the "mediums" are longer as much as twice of a BGS hiCZ (if not longer). Moreover, killing all 4 spec-ops issues a voucher of 1200cr (yes one-thousand-two-hundreds credits) and that feels like they're making jokes of us. I don't have really understood how merits are earned in the PCZs, as target rank is combined with ship type... but elite Viper mk3 paying almost 2x times expert Anaconda makes me giggle (given how much bullet sponge is the latter).
 
Looking at the actual new weekly cycle it looks like MANY systems that were contested acquisitions were decided completely at random.
It can be observed that
  • there were multiple cases of these systems going to 2nd place instead of 1st by number of merits (in Bilskirnir random AD pilots put in over 2 million MORE merits than winters pilots and it went winters)
  • after the tick acquired systems are all seeded at 0 exploited so any merits above min control threshold are a waste and the bar is a red herring.

As for determining who got the system, I have no clue. I could disprove that it was determined by any of
  • who put in most work
  • who has the closest fortified/sh system
  • who has the closest exploited system
  • it just being a 0-indexing but and always going to 2nd place.
Reality? No idea. It's a bug and needs to be fixed.

It is a real shame that FDev had the opportunity, due to the delay, to test the weekly tick on the preview servers. Why they wouldn't use that chance is beyond me and now we deal with the consequences.
 
  • I've still not found anywhere that will give merits for mining - even ones that explicitly say they should
  • Trade. Trading Medicines for Winters worked fine (less pay than Rares) - makes sense as Winters gives a bonus on Medicines. Now I get no merits since the trade nerf.
  • PP CZ. No merits if you make the slog to the end, so they're basically just a target environment. (Or if there were merits it wasn't obvious). And yes, it was a PP CZ.
Undermining salvage/S&R doesn't seem to work (at least in terms of picking stuff up from signal sources)
Megaship uplink scans - not that they're going to be a big part - only seem to work about half the time

  • If I can only undermine within 20 Ly after taking on PP mats then tell me. The current 'within Control Range' meant nothing to me.
It is impressive how it never says anywhere in the game that the ranges are 20 and 30 LY respectively and we're just all guessing that from the map.

It is a real shame that FDev had the opportunity, due to the delay, to test the weekly tick on the preview servers. Why they wouldn't use that chance is beyond me and now we deal with the consequences.
"Does the acquisition system go to the side with more merits there?" really shouldn't need preview testing. That should be a 5-minute setting up of a situation on a private server, running the cycle, seeing what happens, and fixing it if necessary.

Same with all the "does this action actually work as documented?" bugs people have hit - a basic "test each action once" cycle should be finding all of those well before it gets to release time.

Balancing being way out, sure, that's going to need a live and looking-for-shortcuts server to find everything. But this stuff really shouldn't.

So either:
- quite a lot of the key bits were never tested at all even by their initial developer (feels highly unlikely!)
- there's something server-dependent involved, which means it might well have worked fine in preview too if they had tried it there, but something has gone wrong in the process of rolling it out to a full-size server environment.
 
If I can only undermine within 20 Ly after taking on PP mats then tell me. The current 'within Control Range' meant nothing to me.

It is impressive how it never says anywhere in the game that the ranges are 20 and 30 LY respectively and we're just all guessing that from the map.

I assumed anything inside of the blue bubble when you look at Strategic View was fair game.... Is that not the case? Seems like a bug if not, because what else is the point of Strategic View?
 
I assumed anything inside of the blue bubble when you look at Strategic View was fair game.... Is that not the case? Seems like a bug if not, because what else is the point of Strategic View?
Can you point me to the Strategic View? I only see Powerplay | Powerplay Activity on the Galmap so I'm missing something.
 
Can you point me to the Strategic View? I only see Powerplay | Powerplay Activity on the Galmap so I'm missing something.
Bottom Right corner of the right-hand Powerplay info panel in the galaxy map. There is 3 icons, two books, and one looks like a 3-D sphere... The button w/ the sphere is Strategic View.

I'm not in the game right now , but I will have a screenshot in a few minutes to explain better if that doesn't make sense.
 
I assumed anything inside of the blue bubble when you look at Strategic View was fair game.... Is that not the case? Seems like a bug if not, because what else is the point of Strategic View?
Correct - it just doesn't tell you how big that bubble actually is anywhere.

Can you point me to the Strategic View? I only see Powerplay | Powerplay Activity on the Galmap so I'm missing something.
strategic.png

"Toggle Strategic View" in the bottom right.
 
"Does the acquisition system go to the side with more merits there?" really shouldn't need preview testing. That should be a 5-minute setting up of a situation on a private server, running the cycle, seeing what happens, and fixing it if necessary.

Same with all the "does this action actually work as documented?" bugs people have hit - a basic "test each action once" cycle should be finding all of those well before it gets to release time.
100% agree. This is basic stuff that should be caught by QA before even going to test servers. Nevertheless, a lot of the broken mechanics now could have been avoided by letting a bigger number of players and "actual Powerplayers" participate in testing. So many things would have been caught in no time and now it all has to happen live.
 
Looking at the actual new weekly cycle it looks like MANY systems that were contested acquisitions were decided completely at random.
It can be observed that
  • there were multiple cases of these systems going to 2nd place instead of 1st by number of merits (in Bilskirnir random AD pilots put in over 2 million MORE merits than winters pilots and it went winters)
  • after the tick acquired systems are all seeded at 0 exploited so any merits above min control threshold are a waste and the bar is a red herring.

As for determining who got the system, I have no clue. I could disprove that it was determined by any of
  • who put in most work
  • who has the closest fortified/sh system
  • who has the closest exploited system
  • it just being a 0-indexing but and always going to 2nd place.
Reality? No idea. It's a bug and needs to be fixed.

It is a real shame that FDev had the opportunity, due to the delay, to test the weekly tick on the preview servers. Why they wouldn't use that chance is beyond me and now we deal with the consequences.

DId you or anyone else happen to file a bug report on this? We at FLC noticed Winters somehow "won" that system.. even though it wasn't even a priority for us.

We also noticed Torval won several systems due to this.
 
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