Practical approach to Ship Interiors - Subsystem Control Panels

[DemiserofD]

The biggest problem with most ship interior ideas is that they need content to justify it. I personally find the idea of walking around inside your ship, but the walking needs to matter and be useful, not just aesthetic, or it's not worth the extra dev time.

But I think there is a real practical way to do it; multicrew.

Right now, Multicrew is very limited as far as actually being a crew is concerned. They give you a bonus pip, which is nice, and they can fly a fighter, but when I think Crew I think Star Trek or Star Wars. "Power to shields!", or "Maximum Impulse!", that sort of thing.

So here's the idea. Inside the cockpit, there should be control panels. The number of available panels a ship will have is the number of crewmates the ship can handle, plus one. So ships with 1 extra seat will have 2 panels, and ships with 3 extra seats will have 4. Here's an example with the Crusader, which has 3 extra seats:

What do they do? Each of these control panels can be connected to a ship subsystem, but only one subsystem at a time.
To swap from one subsystem to another, you need to exit the one subsystem and boot up the other, which takes time. In combat, you probably won't have time to swap at a single panel, so you'll need to have different subsystems active on different panels. So crewmates will need to run from panel to panel, know what's going on in each subsystem, and make changes rapidly and on the fly. On the Crusader, you could have two crewmates in fighters, meaning the remaining crewmate would need to run the turrets AND manage the subsystems, which means a LOT of running around! And of course, if there's any boosting going on, they'll get thrown around and knocked into walls, making things even more challenging.

This is the added gameplay from the walkable interior! Manevering inside the cabin under high g-forces would be a challenge, and they'd need to time their movements in coordination with the pilot to make sure they don't get thrown into a wall and pinned there for a while. On smaller ships with just a copilot, there would be no need to run, but only 2 panels, so they'd need to think ahead, instead, and plan for what the pilot will need.

Now, to make this worthwhile, each different subsystem control would need to have its own worthwhile bonuses. I've thought up some ideas for what they could do.

Shields

The Shields subsystem panel would look something like a combination of these two things. You would be able to see exactly where damage is coming from, and you could select portions of the shield to specifically enhance, reducing damage from that direction specifically. Alternatively, you could redirect power to force the shields to regenerate even while taking damage, increase the regeneration rate beyond the normal limit, or increase efficiency to reduce distributor draw, by looking for fluctuations in specific quadrants of the shields, and neutralizing them in real time.

Engines
The Engines subsystem panel would display the fuel tanks, the shape of the thrust, and the thermal vents. You would be able to redirect power in different ways; immediately after a boost, you could direct power to the cooling subsystems, allowing the next boost to happen faster, or simply reducing heat. Alternatively, the flow of the engines could be enhanced, increasing the maximum boost speed above normal. Or, you could redirect power to the lateral thrusters, increasing turning rate and strafe acceleration. If the engines are caused to reboot, you can vent the captured fuel and increase pressure to reduce the reboot time. You could even partially mitigate the effects of thargoid lightning to make it possible to escape!

Weapons
Weapons can be enhanced to provide short-term bonuses to specific stats. Fire rates can be enhanced temporarily, or the damage of the next shot specifically. Distributor draw can be made temporarily more efficient, or heat can be diverted to vent more efficiently. Gimbals can have their jitter reduced. All of these things have a cooldown period and have to be used at the right time for maximum effect.

Maintenance
This would be the fourth panel, and would be how crewmates could synthesize and repair. Unlike the pilot, they couldn't be interrupted by damage.


This would allow for walking around inside the cockpit, and make Multicrew a much deeper and more interesting experience.

 

[tolm]

I think something way simpler could be enough to “justify” interiors and make things a little more immersive.

- Remove the “deploy SRV / disembark” options from the pilots menu and instead add an option to get up from your seat. Then you can walk to the cockpit door and choose whether to disembark on foot or deploy in an SRV

- Replace the “loadouts” menu with a Locker + Terminal or maybe a workbench of sorts (depends on the size of ship I would guess?) that allows you to configure your load outs for on-foot use

- Add a specialised terminal for “engineering” that would allow you to perform “remote engineering” on your ship using drones when you are not docked

The only “new” functionality is the last one - and even that’s just what you can do now in stations - but accessing it all in this way would (IMO) give a much better sense of being in a ship rather than just selecting options on a menu.

For ships where you physically couldn’t get up and walk around the current status-quo may have to do. But anything Vulture sized up should be possible.

 

[DemiserofD]

I think something way simpler could be enough to “justify” interiors and make things a little more immersive.

- Remove the “deploy SRV / disembark” options from the pilots menu and instead add an option to get up from your seat. Then you can walk to the cockpit door and choose whether to disembark on foot or deploy in an SRV

- Replace the “loadouts” menu with a Locker + Terminal or maybe a workbench of sorts (depends on the size of ship I would guess?) that allows you to configure your load outs for on-foot use

- Add a specialised terminal for “engineering” that would allow you to perform “remote engineering” on your ship using drones when you are not docked

The only “new” functionality is the last one - and even that’s just what you can do now in stations - but accessing it all in this way would (IMO) give a much better sense of being in a ship rather than just selecting options on a menu.

For ships where you physically couldn’t get up and walk around the current status-quo may have to do. But anything Vulture sized up should be possible.

The problem is, none of those things actually require the interiors. In fact, they only make the existing content take longer.

Which is why the need to run between consoles in the middle of combat is such an important aspect. That is something that actually requires the Interiors in order to be exciting.

Once you have the code for the interiors, then you could add all sorts of stuff like what you are suggesting. But I wouldn't want to remove the ability to do those things directly from the captain's chair. That would just make the game more annoying.

 

[tolm]

The problem is, none of those things actually require the interiors. In fact, they only make the existing content take longer.

Which is why the need to run between consoles in the middle of combat is such an important aspect. That is something that actually requires the Interiors in order to be exciting.

Once you have the code for the interiors, then you could add all sorts of stuff like what you are suggesting. But I wouldn't want to remove the ability to do those things directly from the captain's chair. That would just make the game more annoying.

Sure, could leave the “shortcuts” as well.

Being able to walk and use “real” things in your cockpit - including the “new” engineering drones terminal - would be accessible to everyone.

Running around someone else’s ship during combat would be far more niche, requiring a decent number of players who have friends that play Elite AND will play Multicrew with said friends on a regular basis which, IMO, drastically reduces your customer base.

 

[DemiserofD]

Sure, could leave the “shortcuts” as well.

Being able to walk and use “real” things in your cockpit - including the “new” engineering drones terminal - would be accessible to everyone.

Running around someone else’s ship during combat would be far more niche, requiring a decent number of players who have friends that play Elite AND will play Multicrew with said friends on a regular basis which, IMO, drastically reduces your customer base.

There's the matchmaking feature. You'd be amazed how quickly you can get multicrewmates, even with the current, limited system. If they made multicrew even better, you'd see people doing it like you wouldn't believe. Especially since it lets players bypass so much of the grind and just use someone else's ship!

Honestly, I think the customer base for this is significantly larger than the customer base that want to wander around inside their ship and access the same menus in different ways. Most players would get out of their seat, walk around once or twice, and then just keep using the more efficient shortcuts like normal. By contrast, running around the cockpit and being thrown about by g-forces is an integral aspect of the new multicrew, and would be an obligate use by everyone who plays it.

It gives an actual reason for there to be interiors in the first place. You have to go from content to fluff, not the other way around. Once you have the content in place, you can start adding the neat stuff to look at, because you'll have players running around there already, and you have to develop the area anyway, so you can justify the extra dev time for little bonus features.

And honestly, in a game like Elite, I think you have one of the best opportunities for true bridge-crew type gameplay, which could significantly increase the game's appeal.

 

[jojon]

This whole debate sure demonstrates how different players value things differently. :7

In trying to reach out with an olive branch to the "interiorist" camp, OP manages (to my mind), to propose things I would not wish on my worst enemy -- adding artificial tedious busywork to UI things that should be easy to do. (Needlessly cumbersome UIs just happens to be a particular bugbear of mine, especially in these days of small-touchscreen UI paradigms invading places where they do not fit, and I still detest most of the UI changes that came with with Odyssey -- your mileage may vary, of course.)

I am reminded of back when somebody asked for a keybind for sending a docking request, and they were shouted down by protestors who felt that such a "win button" would eliminate the need for some sort of "skill", what ever "skill" that could possibly have been...

There is of course a case to be made that much of any game relies on illogical contrivancies and ridiculous limitations, for gameplay purposes -- the whole "planes in space" thing, just to begin with... :7

Meanwhile, there is a logic of verisimilitude, regardless of whether it serves gameplay, in things like suit lockers, and sample analysis apparatuses being separate "workstations", unlike any of the things in the OP, which should IMHO by reason all be immediately accessible from any seat.

It needs to be disclosed that this is coming from somebody who always plays solo, and blames the decision to make Elite Dangerous a multi-player game, for ruining much of what it could have been... :7

I mean... I am all ambivalence... On one hand, I would warmly welcome a: "Disembark directly to concourse" button, and for all station board missions - both ship and on-foot, to always be available both from ship and from terminals; But on the other hand... While I'm not into the fighting aspect of the game, I recently did a few Frontline mutual murder thingies, just to unlock one of those engineer people, and as I returned, and for the first time experienced the dropship leaving whilst I has still in the hangar area, I found myself wishing there had been a few outbound NPCs going in the other direction to me, and boarding the about-to-depart ship -- just superflous fluff that contributes nothing to gameplay, just to breathe some sense of life into the place... :7

In my reasoning, the logical point to add ship interior traversal, is when (if) salvaging from interiors of (...and maybe combat within-) non-static objects is added.

I do not envy developers the challenge of trying to please most of the people most of the time. :7

 

[DemiserofD]

This whole debate sure demonstrates how different players value things differently. :7

In trying to reach out with an olive branch to the "interiorist" camp, OP manages (to my mind), to propose things I would not wish on my worst enemy -- adding artificial tedious busywork to UI things that should be easy to do. (Needlessly cumbersome UIs just happens to be a particular bugbear of mine, especially in these days of small-touchscreen UI paradigms invading places where they do not fit, and I still detest most of the UI changes that came with with Odyssey -- your mileage may vary, of course.)

I am reminded of back when somebody asked for a keybind for sending a docking request, and they were shouted down by protestors who felt that such a "win button" would eliminate the need for some sort of "skill", what ever "skill" that could possibly have been...

There is of course a case to be made that much of any game relies on illogical contrivancies and ridiculous limitations, for gameplay purposes -- the whole "planes in space" thing, just to begin with... :7

Meanwhile, there is a logic of verisimilitude, regardless of whether it serves gameplay, in things like suit lockers, and sample analysis apparatuses being separate "workstations", unlike any of the things in the OP, which should IMHO by reason all be immediately accessible from any seat.

It needs to be disclosed that this is coming from somebody who always plays solo, and blames the decision to make Elite Dangerous a multi-player game, for ruining much of what it could have been... :7

I mean... I am all ambivalence... On one hand, I would warmly welcome a: "Disembark directly to concourse" button, and for all station board missions - both ship and on-foot, to always be available both from ship and from terminals; But on the other hand... While I'm not into the fighting aspect of the game, I recently did a few Frontline mutual murder thingies, just to unlock one of those engineer people, and as I returned, and for the first time experienced the dropship leaving whilst I has still in the hangar area, I found myself wishing there had been a few outbound NPCs going in the other direction to me, and boarding the about-to-depart ship -- just superflous fluff that contributes nothing to gameplay, just to breathe some sense of life into the place... :7

In my reasoning, the logical point to add ship interior traversal, is when (if) salvaging from interiors of (...and maybe combat within-) non-static objects is added.

I do not envy developers the challenge of trying to please most of the people most of the time. :7

I don't believe either one on its own is sufficient to justify itself. Verisimilitude without gameplay is pointless, since most players will use it once or twice and then never again. But gameplay without verisimilitude is also bad, because it doesn't fit into the game or the genre. Properly, you need both.

That's what this is trying to do. Think about TV shows like Star trek. When the captain orders the rest of the crew to evacuate, they almost always go down into the pilot seat, and pilot from there. When they need to do engineering things, they go up to the engineers panel, doing things from there. They don't just redirect all controls to the captain's chair and do basically as good on their own as they do with a full crew.

And that's good, because it feels realistic. It adds verisimilitude to the everyday experience, explaining why you need so many people there, what the point of them is. And it adds drama to the moment, as well, when they have to fight against High G's or waid through flame and steam to reach the necessary panel.

To be clear, though, none of these panels would be normally accessible in a fight in solo. There's no way a pilot can get up out of their chair and run over to access one of these panels in time without taking an excess amount of damage in return. So for the single player experience, it would cost them precisely nothing, while giving them all the benefits of verisimilitude that you want, the ability to get up out of the chair when out of a fight and walk around.

It's just new content. You can use it or not at your discretion. What's to complain about?

 

[jojon]

And that's good, because it feels realistic. It adds very similitude to the everyday experience, explaining why you need so many people there, what the point of them is. And it adds drama to the moment, as well, when they have to fight against High G's or Wade through flame and steam to reach the necessary panel.

Well, it does add drama, and more people means distributed multi-tasking, but on the realism side, except for what one could conceivably have in the interpersonal spatial "feel", in true dedicated bridge-command play, I feel that with fully fly-by-wire systems, holographic displays, and hands-on-stick input devices, I fail to see the other-than-gameplay-mandated need for custom, fixed location, single purpose workstations for the tasks in question. ...the pilot needs the best view, of course, but... maybe we need to drop in Spock's viewmaster somewhere... :7

 

[DemiserofD]

Well, it does add drama, and more people means distributed multi-tasking, but on the realism side, except for what one could conceivably have in the interpersonal spatial "feel", in true dedicated bridge-command play, I feel that with fully fly-by-wire systems, holographic displays, and hands-on-stick input devices, I fail to see the other-than-gameplay-mandated need for custom, fixed location, single purpose workstations for the tasks in question. ...the pilot needs the best view, of course, but... maybe we need to drop in Spock's viewmaster somewhere... :7

The location of the physical controls themselves would probably be the most reasonable justification. As people have recently been discovering, screens alone are not a very good system for providing good feedback of what exactly you are doing. Modern cars are slowly starting to go back to switches and dials, rather than touch screens. And that's just for radio and gps, let alone buttons and switches that could theoretically cause the ship to explode!

I would find it quite reasonable for the engineering section to have completely different controls from the piloting section, which would have completely different controls from Shield management. And there is a practical limit to how many buttons and dials you can include while still making any sense at all. Consider the Apollo missions, where there were so many that they needed an entire team to tell them which buttons and switches to flip in the case of an emergency. Look up SCE to aux, for example!

In a high intensity combat environment like these ships are designed for, it simply wouldn't make sense to give the pilot so massive a switchboard that they are unable to effectively locate the right switch at the right time. They would cluster them around other switches, dial, and levers of the same type, and put them in places where they could be best used.

Hence, and engineering section, a shield control section, a Gunnery officer section, and so on!

 

[jojon]

Modern cars are slowly starting to go back to switches and dials, rather than touch screens

Oh, you do not need to convince me of the madness in making a driver use a touchscreen (meanwhile tactile control organs can be operated without even looking), buuut..... Now it seems we're veering into a complete overhaul of the whole bridge instrumentation paradigm. :7

(EDIT: ...there is also the matter of just how the whole telepresence thing is supposed to work... :7)