Horizons Premium Synthesis Options Not Worth The Time Investment?

[Twinn]

Like many CMDRS I was pretty excited for the Horizons release. That first time popping into glide mode towards a massive icy crater was just plain awesome. After about the 5th planet or so it was quickly apparent that we were still playing a beta style framework for features to come. Surface bases were just early 00's looking polygons with some silly "timed data relay race" minigames, and points of interest were anything but. Still in desperate need of a break from the normal combat/hauling grind I busted out the spreadsheets and started recording my material findings across the galaxy. It wasn't more than a few hours before I hit the 300/300 mark. I then had to make another spreadsheet that's sole purpose was to budget which materials I should keep and which I could toss. I now have enough Rare Materials to do just about any premium synthesis formula, but I don't really see a point for any of them!

Premium FSD: 100% Jump Distance - This really only saves you a single 10s jump! I understand that die-hard explorers will use it to cross into the unexplored fringe systems... but it is just plain not worth the harvest time for anyone else. I can only imagine the let down once you reach those fringe systems and find that it is just another single star possibly with some ice planets... and then have to use another several days worth of harvested materials to get back! Then another massive amount of hours before you can even try again. Just a big waste of time in general once you realize it's all basically the same anyway.

Premium Ammo: Full Refill + 30% Damage Increase - Even in the beta I was unsure if 50% damage increase would be worth the grind. I can absolutely assure you that 30% is not. Even with Railguns/Plasma the premium synthesis will only save you from firing 1-2 extra shots. The only weapon that really sees a benefit is the multi-cannon platform because of it's large ammo capacity, Rate of fire, and relatively easy to find materials. It is silly to use anything other than Standard Refill for all other platforms.

Premium AFM: 100% Repair Speed - Is there any real reason to use synthesis on this module at all? Do Frontier expect us to be using this in combat or something?

Premium SRV Fuel/Ammo/Repair - A waste of rare materials considering how easy it is to find the common materials. I accidentally hit Premium Repair for the SRV once and noticed very little change in damage reduction on a high gravity world. Goliath's are too rare and still aren't even worth engaging since there's no real payout.


Suggestions

1. Premium FSD: 100% > 1000% - 34ly would become 340ly which would open up some really fun opportunities for all players and professions. Even at this percentage it would still be more time efficient to jump normally... it would just be more fun! Less drone button push activity and more time spent exploring on planets!

2. Premium Ammo: Not sure about this one. It's kind of just a hopeless battle and will always be a gimmick because of the way PVP works in this game. Perhaps just lessen the amount of materials needed (Have you seen the requirements for Premium Explosives? Sheesh. Even with 100% damage increase they'd still be useless.)

3. AFM / SRV: Couldn't care less about these... as long as the basic ones continue to function. Maybe give us more challenging sentries to justify using over-repair? I don't know.

4. Big one here... Please give us a place to store/sell off materials! 300 storage is not enough for any activity. Even for explorers just trying to document their findings. I'm at the point where I have to toss out common & rare materials all the time! I've completely given up on surface exploring until we can either store/sell our rare materials. My Horizons experience has dwindled down to just dropping things off at surface stations and then leaving...

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Premium FSD: 100% Jump Distance - This really only saves you a single 10s jump! I understand that die-hard explorers will use it to cross into the unexplored fringe systems... but it is just plain not worth the harvest time for anyone else. I can only imagine the let down once you reach those fringe systems and find that it is just another single star possibly with some ice planets... and then have to use another several days worth of harvested materials to get back! Then another massive amount of hours before you can even try again. Just a big waste of time in general once you realize it's all basically the same anyway.

The jumpboosts are designed with uncrossable barriers in mind. Not for regular use I think.

It'll get my T-6 to Beagle Point, so it'll do me.

4. Big one here... Please give us a place to store/sell off materials! 300 storage is not enough for any activity. Even for explorers just trying to document their findings. I'm at the point where I have to toss out common & rare materials all the time! I've completely given up on surface exploring until we can either store/sell our rare materials. My Horizons experience has dwindled down to just dropping things off at surface stations and then leaving...

It adds the need to manage your materials instead of simple harvesting all of them. 300 is plenty for explorers. Especially since they'll most likely will find more during their travels. Use em more often, you'll have more room to store.

 

[Mephane]

I am not a fan of the whole basic/standard/premium system at all. It makes sense for the FSD boost, although that could have been done with a single boost recipe that could simply be applied multiple times. I'd rather have a single type of, for example, cannon ammo that is always the same. With a damage buff, you always end up with an extreme: it's either not worth the effort and unrealistic to ever rely on having, or it becomes absolute must-have mandatory in PvP (and also in PvE if devs begin balancing PvE around the idea players would always run around using buff consumables like there's no tomorrow). I greatly prefer the first option.

 

[Brimstone]

I am not a fan of the whole basic/standard/premium system at all. It makes sense for the FSD boost, although that could have been done with a single boost recipe that could simply be applied multiple times. I'd rather have a single type of, for example, cannon ammo that is always the same. With a damage buff, you always end up with an extreme: it's either not worth the effort and unrealistic to ever rely on having, or it becomes absolute must-have mandatory in PvP (and also in PvE if devs begin balancing PvE around the idea players would always run around using buff consumables like there's no tomorrow). I greatly prefer the first option.

I do not agree with you.

It had taken me hours upon hours of searching for the correct materials just to have the ability to refill four multi cannons with standard +15% ammo. That is a very significant time investment for something that might last me an hour or so in a RES, or perhaps a single full PVP engagement with a skilled player in a similar ship.

So no, I do not agree that people will be running around popping 'buff consumables like there's no tomorrow". At the worst, they might run around popping 'buff consumables' for a couple of hours, before retreating to their preferred planet to spend multiple days harvesting all of the necessary materials so that they can spend another couple of hours using them again.

If you put in the time and effort to finding all of these materials, then you deserve the bonus. It's really no different from someone putting in the time and effort to be able to afford an Anaconda, Cutter, or Corvette.

 

[goemon]

well, i'm landing on planets anyway and drive around, because look and feel, why shouldn't i use the materials i find?

the premium jumps are explorer jumps, sure - or if you want to move a fer-de-lance to a cg at the edges of the universe.

the AFMU premium is an explorer option, too - if your life-support gets damaged heavily. because each second it is turned off to be repaired, drains the oxygene left.

beside that - i was having fun in a RES 20k ls from a station, reloading the cannon on my courier four times. great possibility.

 

[ocflyer]

Premium FSD: 100% Jump Distance - This really only saves you a single 10s jump! I understand that die-hard explorers will use it to cross into the unexplored fringe systems... but it is just plain not worth the harvest time for anyone else. I can only imagine the let down once you reach those fringe systems and find that it is just another single star possibly with some ice planets... and then have to use another several days worth of harvested materials to get back! Then another massive amount of hours before you can even try again. Just a big waste of time in general once you realize it's all basically the same anyway.

I disagree. 100% jump distance can be useful when a ganker has a wake scanner and follows you to your next system. With a single max distance jump, you can lose them.

 

[kilvenny]

In my view they need to extend what you can find on planets, so you are not just looking at the current synthesis, but you can also craft/loot parts or components that you can either sell or use to enhance existing ship modules. I know they are going to extend the crafting and looting side and once that is done, it should give more reason to go planet side and forage. There is an opportunity to add plans so you you have to locate the plans/manual for the upgrade/fix you are doing (recipe) then when you go to walking around, you might need to repair a module in flight or enhance it. eg if you find a crashed sidewinder you might be able to forage the manual or part of the manual from it. This would add gameplay in that you might collect manuals for ships you intend to have in the future.

 

[Fendalton]

Been to Sag A*, driven 180 Km in my SRV, filled my inventory, only got x1 +25% FSD, x2 +50% FSD and x48978961761 ammo refills.

Iron is far too common. I've found category 4 rares on Ice Worlds. It's purely random.

 

[Twinn]

I disagree. 100% jump distance can be useful when a ganker has a wake scanner and follows you to your next system. With a single max distance jump, you can lose them.

With the time you spend sorting through all of your synthesis panels, loading 5 - 10 seconds into galaxy map to properly set FSD Boost... you will be long dead before even initiating jump drive. Either way it's a super niche theoretical circumstance. 100% should really be basic.

It adds the need to manage your materials instead of simple harvesting all of them. 300 is plenty for explorers. Especially since they'll most likely will find more during their travels. Use em more often, you'll have more room to store.

300 is really not as much as you think. After only several days of collecting you'll find that you are having to throw away rare materials. The worst part is that you really want to pick up as much as you can because collecting materials counts towards your exploration rank. So in the end you are basically spending just as much energy filtering out junk materials as you are collecting. 80% of the materials you find in deep space aren't worth using so you just have to destroy them to make room for more materials. Having to destroy your materials sucks the fun out of it completely.

 

[Mephane]

I do not agree with you.

It had taken me hours upon hours of searching for the correct materials just to have the ability to refill four multi cannons with standard +15% ammo. That is a very significant time investment for something that might last me an hour or so in a RES, or perhaps a single full PVP engagement with a skilled player in a similar ship.

So no, I do not agree that people will be running around popping 'buff consumables like there's no tomorrow". At the worst, they might run around popping 'buff consumables' for a couple of hours, before retreating to their preferred planet to spend multiple days harvesting all of the necessary materials so that they can spend another couple of hours using them again.

My point was the balancing of buff consumables swings in one direction: either it becomes must-have and you use it all the time in PvP, or (as in ED) the effort is far too great (or the buff far too weak, or both) so that it is rarely used at all.

If you put in the time and effort to finding all of these materials, then you deserve the bonus. It's really no different from someone putting in the time and effort to be able to afford an Anaconda, Cutter, or Corvette.

The difference is that buff consumables have to be gained and spent again and again. You don't "consume " an Anaconda in the same way unless you screw up. If I wanted a PvP crafting+consumable simulator I'd play any of the numerous Rust style games.

 

[Starlanced]

I would like to see a larger boost, there are stars even whole galactic POI that are beyond even the largest boost by the best jump range possible, I'd like to think they can be visited at some point.

 

[Valderon]

I agree I think the benefits of the rare materials doesn't reflect the difficulty in acquiring them. The benefits should be higher IMO. I think the FSD boots is pretty weak. Why not also have it increase your current tank of fuel efficiency by a certain percentage? Like if i could go 6 full jumps without refueling, I can now jump 12. Or let me craft the effect.

Overall many of the effects arent very exotic or interesting. Pretty boring overall.

 

[Twinn]

I agree I think the benefits of the rare materials doesn't reflect the difficulty in acquiring them. The benefits should be higher IMO. I think the FSD boots is pretty weak. Why not also have it increase your current tank of fuel efficiency by a certain percentage? Like if i could go 6 full jumps without refueling, I can now jump 12. Or let me craft the effect.

Overall many of the effects arent very exotic or interesting. Pretty boring overall.

Yep! It could also get really interesting if you could combine FSD Boost + Fuel Efficiency. With the option of either spreading the jumps out for 100's of lys or getting one massive boost.

 

[GammaZ]

Materials are not that hard to collect. Yes, you can spend weeks searching for them on random planets, but once you find planets where materials you need are available... it becomes an easy task.
Want to fight with +30% rails? Spend 1-2 hours driving at right planet and you will get enough materials for few fights. Similar with FSD boosts.
The only issue is premium/standart SRV refuels and AFM refills are still completely useless.

Also FSD boost do increase your "fuel efficiency" for a given jump, considering how fuel consumption works after using 100% boost you will hugely reduce amount of fuel needed for a given distance jump.

 

[Mephane]

Jump range is a functional of your ship's mass, the fuel efficiency, and the maximum fuel consumption per jump. I am not 100% sure how it is implemented, but I would strongly expect the FSD boost to modify the fuel efficiency of the FSD in order to increase the range, and not change the maximum fuel consumption per jump.

 

[GammaZ]

Jump range is a functional of your ship's mass, the fuel efficiency, and the maximum fuel consumption per jump. I am not 100% sure how it is implemented, but I would strongly expect the FSD boost to modify the fuel efficiency of the FSD in order to increase the range, and not change the maximum fuel consumption per jump.

After activating boost FSD will still use its "max fuel" for new "max distance jump", so yes, fuel consumption for lower range jumps will be reduced a lot.

 

[Birdovous]

Spend 1-2 hours driving at right planet and you will get enough materials for few fights. Similar with FSD boosts.

Oh really? I have driven hundreds and hundreds of km both in Beta and now in live and so far I failed to find a single unit of Polonium... So... I disagree with the above statement. At least with the FSD boost part of it.

 

[tomalus]

Not just premium ammo, even basic ammo takes ages to get mats for. The placeholder prices need to be cut by at least 50%. Even when you find a planet that has abundant materials it takes ages to harvest. Placeholder timesink.

Try reloading 4 multicanons and then you will realize what Im talking about.

 

[Droffy]

Not just premium ammo, even basic ammo takes ages to get mats for. The placeholder prices need to be cut by at least 50%. Even when you find a planet that has abundant materials it takes ages to harvest. Placeholder timesink.

Try reloading 4 multicanons and then you will realize what Im talking about.

I had 4 multi cannons in my conda and had ample mats for many reloads without a problem and that is from just a few days whizzing around planets.. Tho i did for other reasons go back to pulse laser turrets in the end. But i have so many minerals i could reload for quite so me time.

 

[GammaZ]

Oh really? I have driven hundreds and hundreds of km both in Beta and now in live and so far I failed to find a single unit of Polonium... So... I disagree with the above statement. At least with the FSD boost part of it.

This simply means you did not find planet with polonium. They are rare, yes. I'd say very rare. But once you find one it is no issue to get few more units of polonium there when you need it.
But yes, it is true that if you do not like driving SRV and only do it because of materials you will probably get bored very fast.