For years, Guardian technology has been the best and only choice against Thargoids. Other weapon choices have been ignored or derided as inferior to Gauss Cannons. There have been hints of change, with the release of the new Salvation engineered variants of the Guardian Plasma Charger and Shard Cannon, but Gauss has still remained at the top.
But all that may be about to change. HIP 22460 actively damages all guardian modules in the system, and it may be possible for this effect to spread. In these zones, guardian weapons are not an option.
This has left many pilots lost and confused. How can they survive with only dusty AX weapons that haven't seen use in years?
The answer is Advanced Weapons!
Released without much fanfare as part of a CG several years ago, these weapons are the first attempts to not just use guardian technology, but learn from it; to take the advances and utilize them in purely human weapons systems. Because of this, despite being based on Guardian tech, they do not take the same module damage from HIP 22460.
On top of this, they do not count as experimental weapons.
This is a massive deal, since it means you can not only use more of them, it means you can use them in addition to traditional AX weapons.
On top of this, they can be engineered.
This is a true game-changer. This means that you can boost their DPS by 60-100%, truly taking them above and beyond traditional AX weapon systems. In exchange for these many benefits, they have just one downside; their AX ammo must by synthed. Every time.
At a cost of just 1 Guardian Technology Component per synthesis, this is by no means an extraordinary cost; many players synthesize Gauss ammo in longer fights, which also takes guardian materials. But it is something to consider; ideally, you will help to mitigate this cost by combining their use with the use of AX weapons. Fortunately, due to the non-experimental classification, this is more than possible.
But what type to choose? There are Advanced Missiles, and Advanced Multicannons. Generally speaking, the Missiles are the superior choice. They deal more damage, with more armor piercing, and lower distributor draw. Their main disadvantage is lower projectile speed; generally, I would advise using missiles for all medium ships, and reserving multicannons for Large ships, which are less able to maintain consistent distance with their target. An AX Anaconda with 4 Large AX multicannons and 2 Medium Advanced Multicannons, for example. But for this post, I'll focus on the medium ships, and the Advanced Missiles.
With all of this in mind, we're able to quickly create a new ideal, post-guardian build, unlike anything seen before.
The AX Challenger.
Why the Challenger? Because without the experimental weapon cap, we want as many hardpoints as possible; the two contenders being the Challenger and the Federal Gunship, which is far too slow to be effective. Trust me, I've tried. The Challenger, while less agile than the Chieftain, is still more than agile enough to avoid Interceptor fire, while carrying an extra hardpoint to maximize DPS. Further, missiles, like used in this build, do not gain significant damage at higher hardpoint sizes, so the trade of the second Large hardpoint for a medium does not significant reduce overall DPS.
To properly kill hearts with slower weapons like missiles, the xeno scanner is extremely helpful. On a normal build, sacrificing a third heat sink for this is a crippling weakness, but missiles take very little power and generate very little heat, making it more than possible to cold orbit purely with the use of the thermal vent beam laser. The heat sinks are only there for emergencies, not for heavy use, allowing players to carry both a Xeno Scanner and a Shutdown Field Neutralizer at no cost.
With a larger hull and more Optional capacity, this build is also substantially more durable than a standard chieftain, carrying an additional 530 caustic armor and 27 extra module reinforcement(after resists). You may notice that a single guardian hull reinforcement has been included; unlike other guardian modules, these are not negatively impacted by the Proteus Wave, and provide superior protection to their engineered human equivalents, as well as also protecting against module damage. You can see more details here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threa...forcements-may-be-worth-a-second-look.594104/
Now, what about the weapons? First, we have the Class 3 thermal vent beam laser. This is pretty standard. Next, we have three class 2 fixed AX missile racks. These will do about 23 DPS(total) to a Basilisk, which is more than enough to break their regeneration alone; players can use these to exert them, to save on synthesis.
Alternatively, they can combine them with the Advanced Missile Racks, engineered for Sturdy! These are the true meat of the build. Advanced Missiles do 30 AX damage per shot after synthesis, and after engineering, they have a remarkable 96 armor piercing(compared with 60 on standard AX missiles. These three class 1 modules will do an additional 31 DPS, bringing the total up to 54, just 3 DPS shy of a traditional gauss chieftain, but with zero distributor draw!
Of course, it's not all sunshine. For one, missiles are dramatically more difficult to use, especially in a cold orbit, and especially to deal damage to hearts. This is partially mitigated by their splash damage, making it a bit easier to hit the hearts, but it's not as easy as some would have you believe; you must hit in the vicinity of the heart to do damage. A recent video with an AI-controlled T10 demonstrates this quite nicely; with the AI firing center-mass at a thargoid with three advanced missile racks, spread roughly evenly across the thargoid, only one of the missiles was hitting the heart per shot. There is leeway, but it is limited. According to the AX expert I've spoken to who have tried them(Orlandu, one of the old guard), they are more difficult to use than Gauss; it will be difficult to learn, but I consider that a challenge!
For two, while the Challenger is more durable, it is also less agile. You'll need to learn to work with a heavier and slower ship.
And of course, Advanced weapons must be synthesized.
But that's it! That is the price you pay to play in the hardest zone in the game. Overcome these challenges, and you'll be ready to fight Thargoids on their own turf, if and when they ever do replicate the Proteus effect elsewhere. All it takes is skill, dedication... and Advanced Weapons.
But all that may be about to change. HIP 22460 actively damages all guardian modules in the system, and it may be possible for this effect to spread. In these zones, guardian weapons are not an option.
This has left many pilots lost and confused. How can they survive with only dusty AX weapons that haven't seen use in years?
The answer is Advanced Weapons!
Released without much fanfare as part of a CG several years ago, these weapons are the first attempts to not just use guardian technology, but learn from it; to take the advances and utilize them in purely human weapons systems. Because of this, despite being based on Guardian tech, they do not take the same module damage from HIP 22460.
On top of this, they do not count as experimental weapons.
This is a massive deal, since it means you can not only use more of them, it means you can use them in addition to traditional AX weapons.
On top of this, they can be engineered.
This is a true game-changer. This means that you can boost their DPS by 60-100%, truly taking them above and beyond traditional AX weapon systems. In exchange for these many benefits, they have just one downside; their AX ammo must by synthed. Every time.
At a cost of just 1 Guardian Technology Component per synthesis, this is by no means an extraordinary cost; many players synthesize Gauss ammo in longer fights, which also takes guardian materials. But it is something to consider; ideally, you will help to mitigate this cost by combining their use with the use of AX weapons. Fortunately, due to the non-experimental classification, this is more than possible.
But what type to choose? There are Advanced Missiles, and Advanced Multicannons. Generally speaking, the Missiles are the superior choice. They deal more damage, with more armor piercing, and lower distributor draw. Their main disadvantage is lower projectile speed; generally, I would advise using missiles for all medium ships, and reserving multicannons for Large ships, which are less able to maintain consistent distance with their target. An AX Anaconda with 4 Large AX multicannons and 2 Medium Advanced Multicannons, for example. But for this post, I'll focus on the medium ships, and the Advanced Missiles.
With all of this in mind, we're able to quickly create a new ideal, post-guardian build, unlike anything seen before.
The AX Challenger.
Why the Challenger? Because without the experimental weapon cap, we want as many hardpoints as possible; the two contenders being the Challenger and the Federal Gunship, which is far too slow to be effective. Trust me, I've tried. The Challenger, while less agile than the Chieftain, is still more than agile enough to avoid Interceptor fire, while carrying an extra hardpoint to maximize DPS. Further, missiles, like used in this build, do not gain significant damage at higher hardpoint sizes, so the trade of the second Large hardpoint for a medium does not significant reduce overall DPS.
To properly kill hearts with slower weapons like missiles, the xeno scanner is extremely helpful. On a normal build, sacrificing a third heat sink for this is a crippling weakness, but missiles take very little power and generate very little heat, making it more than possible to cold orbit purely with the use of the thermal vent beam laser. The heat sinks are only there for emergencies, not for heavy use, allowing players to carry both a Xeno Scanner and a Shutdown Field Neutralizer at no cost.
With a larger hull and more Optional capacity, this build is also substantially more durable than a standard chieftain, carrying an additional 530 caustic armor and 27 extra module reinforcement(after resists). You may notice that a single guardian hull reinforcement has been included; unlike other guardian modules, these are not negatively impacted by the Proteus Wave, and provide superior protection to their engineered human equivalents, as well as also protecting against module damage. You can see more details here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threa...forcements-may-be-worth-a-second-look.594104/
Weapons
Now, what about the weapons? First, we have the Class 3 thermal vent beam laser. This is pretty standard. Next, we have three class 2 fixed AX missile racks. These will do about 23 DPS(total) to a Basilisk, which is more than enough to break their regeneration alone; players can use these to exert them, to save on synthesis.
Alternatively, they can combine them with the Advanced Missile Racks, engineered for Sturdy! These are the true meat of the build. Advanced Missiles do 30 AX damage per shot after synthesis, and after engineering, they have a remarkable 96 armor piercing(compared with 60 on standard AX missiles. These three class 1 modules will do an additional 31 DPS, bringing the total up to 54, just 3 DPS shy of a traditional gauss chieftain, but with zero distributor draw!
Weaknesses
Of course, it's not all sunshine. For one, missiles are dramatically more difficult to use, especially in a cold orbit, and especially to deal damage to hearts. This is partially mitigated by their splash damage, making it a bit easier to hit the hearts, but it's not as easy as some would have you believe; you must hit in the vicinity of the heart to do damage. A recent video with an AI-controlled T10 demonstrates this quite nicely; with the AI firing center-mass at a thargoid with three advanced missile racks, spread roughly evenly across the thargoid, only one of the missiles was hitting the heart per shot. There is leeway, but it is limited. According to the AX expert I've spoken to who have tried them(Orlandu, one of the old guard), they are more difficult to use than Gauss; it will be difficult to learn, but I consider that a challenge!
For two, while the Challenger is more durable, it is also less agile. You'll need to learn to work with a heavier and slower ship.
And of course, Advanced weapons must be synthesized.
Conclusion
But that's it! That is the price you pay to play in the hardest zone in the game. Overcome these challenges, and you'll be ready to fight Thargoids on their own turf, if and when they ever do replicate the Proteus effect elsewhere. All it takes is skill, dedication... and Advanced Weapons.
Last edited:
