General / Off-Topic Prime Minister's statement on triggering Article 50
- Thread starter Cosmo
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A historic moment in the history of a nation. Almost remind the liberation of the free and sovereign nations at the end of the Second World War
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Careful, you will start upsetting the EUrophile narcissist lovers and they are disapproving to anyone who rejoice in attempting to, or leave the corrupt EU Dictatorship.
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Yet you call EU a corrupt dictatorship, when at least in my book, it is simply suffering from the same problems governments all over are having, yes, corruption, and politicians focusing on their own needs, but how is that really any different in the UK itself, voting in a law to sell users browsing information but not government officials?
At least under EU, several potentially corrupt politicians have to come into an agreement with other politicians of similar nature, leading to, in my book, them unable to be less corrupt, because they have to find agreement with foreign politicians with their own interests at heart.
The EU is far from perfect, but going it alone isn't suddenly going to make a place less corrupt, if anything, it allows any potential corrupt UK politicians to only have to worry about other UK politicians..
So yeah, don't know about upsetting EU 'lovers', but being an EU 'hater' doesn't make much sense either if you ask me, and once out UK will have no say, but likely still have to follow EU laws, that can be made without regards for the UK? which seems a worse position? staying in EU and trying to work things out seems a better alternative to me.
Dictatorship is a little exaggerated, it is true. Technocracy is more appropriate. But beware, the technocracy is the way toward the dictatorship of the bureaucrats
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How I wish pro-brexit folks would actually understand that... I'm all for agreeing on the fact that EU institutions have their flaws, but to cut all ties and de facto remove all rights to have a say in the whole process is not the most mature decision ever. Time will tell if the decision was good or bad, but I won't hold my breath. Isolation nowadays is rather suicidal. All I can say is, again, that I feel terribly sorry for those who wanted to remain. And in a sense, happy for those who wanted to leave, as they seem happy to do so, but my bet is, they'll join the other group soon enough.
The EU are openly making threats to us and are orchestrating collective punishment on our citizens , just simply for taking a democratic vote that they hate and that defines a dictatorship. I have said before , those in the EU have learnt nothing in dealing with the British for centuries , if they did they would know we don't like Dictators ordering us about, making threats to our people and to think we can change them is fantasy as this video informs you why Europeans can change nothing.
Now the EU are trying to do what Russia did to Crimea and land grab Gibraltar, agaisnt the will of the people living there. It's classic dictatorship in action and thank God the USA said in the last few days that they will not tolerate countries ignoring the will of the people and their self determination and made clear reference to Gibraltar. Spanish colonies like the Canary islands wont be handed back, so they should stop thinking they will get Gib back.
[video=youtube;hXS_gb8g8TI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXS_gb8g8TI[/video]
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I always wonder what makes people think EU technocrats are beyond any possibility of corruption, are they all Saints?? (Nope, they're all politicians, and can be good bad or indifferent like the rest of us only better paid, and supreme). One problem this presents to the (people of the) subsidiary democracies is the national governments being able play hide the lady between them and the EU .. blaming the over-government, or taking credit as it suits them.
The major thing for me is there's no distinction between 'the government' and 'the state', when it comes to the EU (you can't really be a political opposition to force reform from within, which is a total divide and rule, because such a massive and disparate constitutuency in languages alone) and really a Cold War construct; The political (single nation) aims should have been rowed back when the USSR broke up. A market is good for trade but the EU is too wishy washy to really work as a block government. Highly likely to end in tears unless genuinely reformed but continually failing large sections of the Western European public at least (who used to fund it).
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On the planet where I live (Earth, maybe you've heard of it), the EU never threatened anyone of getting a collective punishment. The rest of the EU only said that if the UK (and this is more and more looking like only GB) was to leave, they could not pretend to access the EU market under the same conditions as before. If that's a threat to you, fine. On Earth, it's not. It's just a fact.
And about the US coming to save you from the god awful EU dictatorship, eh, good luck with that. First, even within the EU, the UK has pretty much remained under the US boots (so, not equal) by choice. Then, Trump is a total who is going to be lucky if it finishes its (now less than) four years mandate. He's a total accident. Not to mention that he is, in fact, powerless. That's the ally you're counting on, while tossing feces at your direct neighbours (and, dare I say, actual allies who don't see you as a commodity) and the market you were in.
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What 'threats' what laws is it they push down on us? specifically?
Environmental laws?
Data security laws?
As I wrote the problem with EU is 'politicians', which is a problem within countries themselves as well, it won't go away simply by leaving instead the corruption will just come from own government that suddenly doesn't need to follow others rules?
But yeah as said EU isn't perfect, but the problem doesn't seem to be 'EU' but politicians in general?
And I'd love to hear what exactly those threats are.
Did you read my post?, I specifically said that the problem with EU is politicians, and their corruption, and that same kind of corruption exists outside EU as well, heck I'd say in countries where a bigger organisation such as EU for example doesn't have a say, that countries own politicians have an easier time being as corrupt as they want?
I never once said they are beyond corruption or saints or anything like that, I said they are politicians, and like politicians everywhere they do what they do, but that won't change by leaving EU, instead suddenly UK politicians do not need to 'bow down' to what other politicians may or may not say, they get the ability to control what they do themselves, and they are going to continue to do what politicians do, consider just an example with UK's internet privacy laws, selling users internet data is fine, but not politicians?
So yeah, maybe consider that politicians love people that go off on rants and defend a belief, (in itself not bad) but then are so busy with defending certain things that the corrupt politicians get something that only benefits them through? I'm sceptical of EU, the same way I'm sceptical of all politicians. But it still seems that if you have a big group of politicians, all with their own interests at heart, in that big group agreement is going to be harder to get, and thus a chance of less corruption, then if those same politicians only need to communicate with their own countries politicians, again, not perfect or anything at all, but you know, leaving doesn't seem to actually solve what is complained about, only give own politicians more power, and I mean, I suppose people inherently trust politicians from their own country more then those not, but in my experience, politicians from ones own country are just better at making sure they get the most out of any deal in their own country?