Priority choices of ED development

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Disclaimer: my opinion and guess work. Your POV might differ very heavily from mine.

For some time I have been torn about post release development of ED. I have personally enjoyed majority of design of new updates, adn I enjoy reading dev comments and see done sensible changes and tweaks to their work. FD has also advertised their job openings non-stop and judging by dev comments they are really, really busy for all the time post release.

But with all good things released, I am torn. With mind I understand that releasing ED to as many platforms as possible must be key strategy for FD now - due of almost non-existent PR budget ED can only expect limited exposure and that peak is right now. Therefore throwing all efforts in releasing Mac and XBO versions is just business wise best decision to make. You expand your player base and then you grow the game.

However I am also backer who wants to dream big. And no, i don't talk about player created stations. I am talking about core features which still has to be added to the game. For ED to be complete, it has to have them. Those for me are web of contacts (with powers having something of 1st tier NPC there's hope that concept is still alive and will grow), passenger transportation, which in turn doesn't make sense without NPC dialogs. It's all tied up to 2nd tier NPCs. We have 3nd tier NPCs, but their persistence is a bit inconsistent, but improving with each release.

Another thing outside NPC contacts is scavenging. I admit I know way less about his, as only Anaconda has advanced damage model (and that's whole reason why it doesn't have paintjobs). I really hope someone at FD keep crunching away with extending ship models with damage stages. It's big work though. Still, David in December said it's post release feature.

This is my minimal expectation setup.

But I am torn. Because it is either 'just' six months or 'already' six months since release. I personally think lot of people don't understand amount of development going into ED, casting aside it as broken or not working in appealing way for them. It's fine to have such opinion, but having a bit of coding and sysadmin background I have respect of big work done and I think lot of claims that FD devs are slacking, lazy or incompetent are just either emotions or arrogance talking. Said that, I start to feel sting of depression regarding these features. Problem is that FD doesn't communicate much since release. I understand that they have obligations as second list company, also promises always lead to disappointment. However I want that FD back who weren't afraid to discuss things coming up.

What I would like to see from FD now is to give some hints where their development efforts will go next. Judging by David's post, next update is planned around August, which is very ok for me - 1.3 and PP will need lot of polishing, especially as it will be stuff which will land in first release of XBO port. But I would like to know *what* is coming. That's my biggest boon at the moment.

TLDR I think priorities with releasing on as much platforms as possible first are correct ones - FD needs to bank in on exposure it cannot get with their minimal PR budget. However not talking about future updates and not giving hints is start take toll on many backers and supporters (I personally think talking about next update after 1.1 and 1.2 was right way to do that, to keep people enganged). FD needs to find new way to talk to us about stuff they work on without promising too much. They neeed to try.

 

[Sandmann]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

I was watching the E3 preview of No Man's Sky earlier (yes this is related, please mods don't move it yet) that someone linked to and they said something during the demo that struck a chord. They were showing the zillions of systems (same as ours and I assume generated in the same fashion) and they said "everywhere you go is filled with choices". That pretty much sums up what ED needs to become a complete game - choices, things to DO. You've summed up several good mechanics that the game needs to provide them and I'm sure there are many more. Right now it doesn't matter which of the 400 billion systems you go to you have 4 choices - look at the pretty balls and scan them, dig up the rocks, shoot at ships, or trade. That's pretty much it. Powerplay doesn't change this, it only changes the outcomes (from credits to merits) - it's an attempt to give new motivation to do the same old activities in place of providing new activities and as has been shown it's a pretty unpopular strategy. Once you've had your fill of those four choices it doesn't matter how pretty the sky is or how many credits you have, it's pretty much just "rinse and repeat".

 

[JeffRyan]

Ironically this is the sort of answer I was looking for in my own thread. People seemed to assume I was after Frontier's blood, whereas I was actually looking for solutions. It's easy to blame angry people but with it being so consistent and I've noticed even a lot of the die hard fans getting upset over time. We all know FD have made a couple of really big blunders PR-wise over the last couple of years.

I'm still not sure what the right way is, I do know Stardock has a decent rapport with it's playerbase and they're a small company as well.

 

[xyphic]

But I would like to know *what* is coming.

Ditto. I'm hugely tolerant of the updates that we're getting, the communication from the devs, etc. But the game is still a long way from what I had imagined when contributing to the DDF. We don't know which parts of the DDF will or won't be implemented, and we don't know what the priorities are or when we're likely to see them. The game is sorely missing advanced exploration and diverse and interesting missions.

I'm in software development, and I understand the effort involved in making something this big and complex. I understand that features take longer than estimated to deliver, and I understand that some features just don't work as designed, so get left behind. But I also understand that it's important to keep your stakeholders in the loop, and with this game we're all stakeholders, and I for one feel out of the loop. Keep us engaged and interested, and we'll continue to spend time (and money) on the game. Leave us out in the cold and we'll get bored, so when you release your expansion packs we might not be here to buy them. Acknowledge the game's deficiencies, don't hide behind corporate speak. Give us a roadplan, and don't be scared to change that roadplan or to leave bits out of it (we know how much you like your surprises). We'll understand. Just don't treat us like children, thinking that when you give us this big reveal (Powerplay or CQC) it's like you're being this benevolent entity bestowing wonders upon us. I'd prefer to be treated like a peer; share the ups and downs of development and we might surprise you by being supportive and understanding.

 

[jabokai]

Almost tempted to +rep the OP and that's unusual for me!

Basically, we have the FD magician using misdirection to lead us away from the fact that the core game, the great game they designed in the DDA is still not present. They have the shiny new coin in one hand - Powerplay, CQC - constantly distracting from the fact the other hand is rifling through our pockets (or something slightly less dramatic ). "No no, don't look there, look here, tis shiny and new, ooooh."

 

[xyphic]

I'm still not sure what the right way is, I do know Stardock has a decent rapport with it's playerbase and they're a small company as well.

Frontier has the problem that they're a medium-sized company, and their customer base has significantly shifted in the last couple of years. Their customers used to be large corporations for who they created 3rd party games. Their customers are now the little people actually playing the game, and they can't figure out whether to act like a big corporation or like an indie developer. They're swaying toward the former, and I think that's detrimental as their income stream is more like that of the latter.

 

[DarkseeD]

Right now it doesn't matter which of the 400 billion systems you go to you have 4 choices - look at the pretty balls and scan them, dig up the rocks, shoot at ships, or trade. That's pretty much it. Powerplay doesn't change this, it only changes the outcomes (from credits to merits) - it's an attempt to give new motivation to do the same old activities in place of providing new activities and as has been shown it's a pretty unpopular strategy. Once you've had your fill of those four choices it doesn't matter how pretty the sky is or how many credits you have, it's pretty much just "rinse and repeat".

You hit the nail on the head, my thoughts exactly.

 

[rootsrat]

I agree with you Pecisk. Like I said in another thread, I still trust Frontier to give us the game that's been sketched in DDA/F. I think we need reassurance that at least some of the DDA/F features are going to be worked on next. Not soon. Next.

 

[Sandmann]

Ironically this is the sort of answer I was looking for in my own thread. People seemed to assume I was after Frontier's blood, whereas I was actually looking for solutions. It's easy to blame angry people but with it being so consistent and I've noticed even a lot of the die hard fans getting upset over time. We all know FD have made a couple of really big blunders PR-wise over the last couple of years.

I'm still not sure what the right way is, I do know Stardock has a decent rapport with it's playerbase and they're a small company as well.

Probably the single most constant complaint since beta (and I assume alpha too) has been lack of communication. I understand there's corporate secrecy required at a certain level but this whole "we'll tell you soon about future developments" and then soon it's "we're going to do more stuff, but we're not gonna tell you what it is... oh but we're calling this one "EnergyPlay" doesn't help. The degree of anger and uncertainty about the game has been high since 1.3 and right now it's boiling over and we get nothing but silence from those in the "know" about the future. Of course it doesn't help that the game's been going in a different direction to that which we were originally told to expect either - the DDF seems to be completely ignored now and we're getting stuff that had never been talked about, so why should anyone still hope for some of the more exotic expansions or real content we'd been told would happen?

As I said in a previous thread, FD are losing momentum with ED, there's a LOT of new games coming out "real soon now" including several interesting looking space games, and if the interest in other games turns into an exodus it'd be hard to turn around and at that point even harder to justify spending the resources on new content for a game with dwindling popularity. Vague spin of continued development on the PC won't keep players around, we need to know what they've got in mind - at least a rough idea.

 

[Kulin]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

I was watching the E3 preview of No Man's Sky earlier (yes this is related, please mods don't move it yet) that someone linked to and they said something during the demo that struck a chord. They were showing the zillions of systems (same as ours and I assume generated in the same fashion) and they said "everywhere you go is filled with choices". That pretty much sums up what ED needs to become a complete game - choices, things to DO.

That is it. We don't need powerplay. We don't need wings(even if they are nice). We don't need anything but new and really challenging gameplay. Frontier is giving us new menus since release. Powerplay menus with lots of number crunching. Wing menus to get your group together. New windows for mission messages. Menus, Menus, Menus. But is there anything that has changed in core gameplay? Shooting enemies. Exploration? Mining(beside drones)? The things you do when you are actually out of a station, playing a game? In my oppinion NOTHING significant has changed in this most important part of the game.

So you are right: what we need is something to DO beside shooting. Just take a look in the DDA for exploration. Active Scanning Minigame that needs thought and skill to find the precious unexplored parts of space, Heat maps, Hyperspace Drones, Dark Systems. And so on. So many ideas that would make exploration a blast to play. The same with mining. It all was planned with so much depth. What we good is not even close to it. So much wasted potential.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Frontier has the problem that they're a medium-sized company, and their customer base has significantly shifted in the last couple of years. Their customers used to be large corporations for who they created 3rd party games. Their customers are now the little people actually playing the game, and they can't figure out whether to act like a big corporation or like an indie developer. They're swaying toward the former, and I think that's detrimental as their income stream is more like that of the latter.

I think FD is stretching themselves to the limit with ED and it shows. It's not a bad thing, and they are hiring like crazy, but this is first time I say this can hamper ED development quite a bit. It's not like competition have it easier - CIG obsession with features for first release have pushed release of the game way beyond it's original targets.

edit: also I don't believe ED will lose it's appeal. It's still a good game and I think we have plentful of choices. I just want them to be more and fleshed out.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I too would love to have an honest, up front, and if need be BRUTAL update from the devs regarding what is coming soon, what is still "coming at some point" what "may come one day but no promises" and what is on the cutting room floor.


I still look back to early dev videos with an anaconda ripped to pieces limping home with bits hanging off it.
that video with the 2 huge ships and the amazing SOS, calling all souls please help
and all that amazing content in the DDA, building relationships with NPCs, crew in our ships
"life" inside space stations
hidden pirate bases in asteroids
those artisitc impressions of all if the different space stations


is this still on the cards? if not well, fine I get it, but better to be open about it and give us new expectations to look forward to imo than leave some of us hanging and ultimately even more dissapointed. (I am not saying Frontier are exactly doing a Peter Molyneux but they are potentially in the same ball park)

i love what we have so far, I just would like to know how high to set my expectations

 

[Sandmann]

Yeah... at least wings was a new WAY to do one of the 4 basic tasks, and was a mechanic that should have been part of it as soon as they decided it was going to be a multiplayer game. PP doesn't even give you new ways of doing things, just different (and in the opinion of many, borked) outcomes. It's a motivational tool, not content. You've given us all this wonderful space FD, now give us something to DO with it, some way of interacting with it other than shooting bits of it, looking at bits of it, or carrying bits of it around.

 

[OriginalBadBoy]

As I said in a previous thread, FD are losing momentum with ED, there's a LOT of new games coming out "real soon now" including several interesting looking space games, and if the interest in other games turns into an exodus it'd be hard to turn around and at that point even harder to justify spending the resources on new content for a game with dwindling popularity. Vague spin of continued development on the PC won't keep players around, we need to know what they've got in mind - at least a rough idea.

That's hardly 'news' is it .. New games come out all the time ...

Also the NMS devs have shown zero gameplay mechanics so far, so I am not sold on that yet .. Not to mention the game is hardly realistic .. The planets look like golf balls (in size) compared to 'real' planets in ED ...

However I will agree on one thing FD need to communicate their future ED intentions to one degree or another ... Hopefully we will get something at the E3 PC conference later on today .. .

 

[Bobbydylan]

It's well known that ED is a mile wide and an inch deep, and TBVH, adding Xbone players to the game in this state will actually do more harm than good. The game needs more content that isn't generic "kill 10 rats" before it grows it's client base.

I'm a fairly disappointed PC player who understands the game is still in Development. I think you can expect an influx of buthurt console players bemoaning the state of the game, not understanding it's not a final product.

 

[Philip Coutts]

I'm saddened by the direction ED is going. As Jabokai mentioned there is an attempt at the oldest magicians trick in the book, slight of hand. Don't look at the bare bones of the game that's missing loads of features, look at this shiny new community goals / Powerplay / CQC. I've said this elsewhere and I doubt Frontier are interested in what an upstart like me has to say but I'll say it again anyway. Please fix the main game, add in the missing features and flesh out the game before releasing anymore fluff.

 

[{SAS}Stalker]

I'm genuinely not bothered about future "major DLC" right now as its akin to pouring water into a bucket with holes in it. Yes the bucket is lovely etc etc but it has holes in it. I wish they would spend some time on fleshing out what was released.

Will they tell us what they are doing, doubt it as they got epically burned on the single player thing and I don't think that's a place they want to revisit again. Statements of intent very quickly become "written in blood" contracts on the internet so I imagine we will be fed snippets in the run up to releases.

 

[Viajero]

Growth management is indeed a serious and difficult challenge. Lots of design features originally intended will be eliminated, and others, new ones, will also possibly make it in. That is the essence of the risk involved in a crowdfunded project, and we need to embrace it.

The question is, are you actually having fun with the game as it is and as it is evolving, all things considered?

 

[Trafalgar Law]

I too would love to have an honest, up front, and if need be BRUTAL update from the devs regarding what is coming soon, what is still "coming at some point" what "may come one day but no promises" and what is on the cutting room floor.


I still look back to early dev videos with an anaconda ripped to pieces limping home with bits hanging off it.
that video with the 2 huge ships and the amazing SOS, calling all souls please help
and all that amazing content in the DDA, building relationships with NPCs, crew in our ships
"life" inside space stations
hidden pirate bases in asteroids
those artisitc impressions of all if the different space stations


is this still on the cards? if not well, fine I get it, but better to be open about it and give us new expectations to look forward to imo than leave some of us hanging and ultimately even more dissapointed. (I am not saying Frontier are exactly doing a Peter Molyneux but they are potentially in the same ball park)

i love what we have so far, I just would like to know how high to set my expectations

I've largely given up expecting any of these things. If they add them it'll be a pleasant surprise, however I don't expect these things to ever appear. I'm still mostly having fun in this game for now, I've even been having fun with powerplay, despite it's many flaws.

Yeah... at least wings was a new WAY to do one of the 4 basic tasks, and was a mechanic that should have been part of it as soon as they decided it was going to be a multiplayer game. PP doesn't even give you new ways of doing things, just different (and in the opinion of many, borked) outcomes. It's a motivational tool, not content. You've given us all this wonderful space FD, now give us something to DO with it, some way of interacting with it other than shooting bits of it, looking at bits of it, or carrying bits of it around.

Had they actually bothered to include a way to share missions or even specific group missions, I'd agree. Without that, Wings was just a pointless addition for me.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Growth management is indeed a serious and difficult challenge. Lots of design features originally intended will be eliminated, and others, new ones, will also possibly make it in. That is the essence of the risk involved in a crowdfunded project, and we need to embrace it.

The question is, are you actually having fun with the game as it is and as it is evolving, all things considered?

I do. I just want ED to be much more. But for entertaining value I have a blast - and I don't even play ED that much.