Nobody because it would be limited only to a 1 on 1 fight. Once another ship opened fire then the prize option becomes null and void. Would a Cutter attack a wing of 4 Eagles? Only the original attacking ship would be the prize and only if it lost the battle. But, I'm sure FDev would never go for it even if it was thought of as a good idea mainly because of all the code modifications that would need to be written.
Prize Ship
- Thread starter Mo Ronik
- Start date
Nobody because it would be limited only to a 1 on 1 fight. Once another ship opened fire then the prize option becomes null and void. Would a Cutter attack a wing of 4 Eagles? Only the original attacking ship would be the prize and only if it lost the battle. But, I'm sure FDev would never go for it even if it was thought of as a good idea mainly because of all the code modifications that would need to be written.
OP specifically said "sell for profit", and he also talks about refitting it, so i reasonably presume that he could sell the modules in it.
As to making his proposal look 'extreme', Yes, Because that is exactly what the player base will do, look for ways to exploit the mechanic. YOU might think its negative to look for the extremes but you HAVE to consider how it might be used across tens of thousands of players and how it might affect game balance, NOT just individual players.
Sure you *could* make all sorts of restrictions in the value of the ship, or whether it's covered by re-buy etc. But the OP mentions none of that. So on the basis of the idea presented, it would be horribly game breaking.
So lets say you can only sell the ship/modules for 10% of their value. Seems fair? that's a tiny fraction right? I'm willing to bet most people would scream if fdev set the number that low too!
I steal your 1bn credit ship. You claim on the insurance for 950m. I sell your modules / ship for 10% = 100m. We are immediately 50m credits up, through insurance fraud. Now reverse the process and repeat 20 times. You've each just doubled your money.
As to your comments about it being technically difficult to implement, I see nothing complex in the suggestion at all.
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Except the OP goes on to explicitly say its a legally owned prize ship, that can be sold if you dont want to keep it.
Actualy frontier has said that they want to impliment the ability to steal and claim ships. But to my understanding it wont be a thing until they impliment spacelegs as they want to put Internal defenses inside ships such as ceiling turrets, shield walls, and bulkhead doors.
Looks like the naysayers are going to have to petition ED to have them stop legs development because they don't want a noob to become a mega-trillionaire in the first week.
I think Braandlin and co could be right, we can't have a Noob stealing a ship, what if he stole Capital ship...
supposing he manages to steal four of five! more even and adds them to his sidewinder... he'd have an unstoppable fleet? he could then change the Powerplay and ruin everybody's work... he might drive humanity right out of the galaxy, no it mustn't be allowed.
Unfortunately, capital ships are a bit lame.Looks like the naysayers are going to have to petition ED to have them stop legs development because they don't want a noob to become a mega-trillionaire in the first week.
I think Braandlin and co could be right, we can't have a Noob stealing a ship, what if he stole Capital ship...
But he could steal a Thargoid ship! Then go around trolling newbies in Eravate, in his now invincible-to-normal-weapons ever regenerating Thargoid ship!
In the days of real pirates, they would take the ship they pirated if it were better than the one they used to pirate it. Surviors of the priated ship would be placed on the ship that pirated them and the pirates would be off in their new ship. If they lost the battle, the pirated ship would destroy the ship that pirated them, make the captian watch as they exicuted his crew and then bring him to where ever to be jailed or hung for his crimes in public.
The ability to choose to keep the ship their in vs keep the pirated ship would be a cool but unlikely aspect. Ascertaining a ship for pirating, getting it armed and engineered to win in battle is not the easiest of chores. Though it would or could provide some to get supposedly bigger and better ships. But at the cost of giving up the ship utilized. Just as it was in the days of old.
The ability to choose to keep the ship their in vs keep the pirated ship would be a cool but unlikely aspect. Ascertaining a ship for pirating, getting it armed and engineered to win in battle is not the easiest of chores. Though it would or could provide some to get supposedly bigger and better ships. But at the cost of giving up the ship utilized. Just as it was in the days of old.
Looks like the naysayers are going to have to petition ED to have them stop legs development because they don't want a noob to become a mega-trillionaire in the first week.
I think Braandlin and co could be right, we can't have a Noob stealing a ship, what if he stole Capital ship...
Nothing of the sort. The issues I have highlighted are legitimate reasons. Frontier have been VERY clear on the fact they will not take a path that allows an out of game market in real world cash to develop. This means that any activity where a player could charge real money for a service that would improve another player's position such as by the creation or donation of ships credits and other assets, is not going to happen.
This does not mean it never will, but it means that any implementation of an idea such as the one proposed by the OP would be rigorously designed to prevent that possibility and therefore would be significantly different to the idea the OP proposed.
Extrapolating from those legitimate concerns to attempt sarcasm regarding capital ships is clearly just trolling for a response.
Nobody mentioned real world sales, it's just another exaggerated petty high horsed argument you're providing by extrapolating from point zero, the OP came up with a suggestion that could add value if worked correctly under strict governance and you chose to shoot it down rather than explore what it or something similar could bring to the game... taking that into context my silly comment was there to show you the error in your negative 'trolling?' thinking.
c'ya.
But here have been very few mechanisms to actually stop transferring of ships between players using this "prize" mechanism.
So we had it could only happen in 1vs1 fights. to stop abuse of wings of small ships.
But the basic design is still flawed, as the core concept is basically "Big" ship interdicts "smaller" ship... And if smaller ships win the fight, small ship can claim the big ship as prize....
So a deal is made outside of game. Deal says, I will give you my fully engineered Corvette, so we meet up, I interdict you, I start to shoot at you, me in my Corvette, you in a "sidewinder", after we have "played" enough to register big ship assaulting small ship, I make a mistake, hits silent running, drops shields, and now all you have todo is to take down my hull.... you win, can claim prize and youare now the owner of my Corvette.
That is how this can be abused..... repeatedly
Now replace the deal above with 3rd party site, that charges REAL money for the desired ship.
The proposal made by the OP leaves itself open to real world sales. The OP explicitly describes a system whereby one player can transfer assets to another. That transfer would benefit the player in question and where there is in game benefit to be found, you will attract players that will make real world profit from it. Its a problem that has affected many online games. The developer has to consider issues like this, before they put content in place, even if only for their own PR and brand protection. FRONTIER have explicitly state that they do not wish to create content that would move Elite into a pay to win situation, or to create real world markets for in game assets. It is their stated business decision.
The 'idea' of being able to steal ships may indeed be fun. As would many other ideas that involve players genuinely competing with each other in ways that aren't just shooting until blown up and then getting a nearly free ship back. However the developer must consider a much wider range of issues than just "hey that sounds like fun". There will be hundreds of potential ideas that have been discussed durign product development that will have been shelved for precisely this reason. There's is anything remotely technical difficult in implementing the OPs ide , but you have to understand it's potential impact on the wider game.
So, you can continue to attack me petulantly if you wish, but recognise that that is more trollish behaviour than any of the real world limitations I have pointed out to the OP. You should consider that just because someone does not agree with you, or because they have a wider grasp on an issue than you do, does not make them either wrong, or a troll.
Have fun.
Well, ignoring the last paragraph and get straight onto the point... (points)
ED is well aware of the pitfalls of on line profiteering and don't need a voice on their shoulder to point them out, they have brains and if they want to work with an idea then I'm sure all of the 'transferable funds nonsense' will be dealt with by them,
I see the suggestions forum is just for suggestions, as we have no power other that to say..."please sir can we do this?" not really for working out every single detail and pitfall by the thread author, and as this one is just three line of suggestion it could really do with expanding upon.
This is where we come in,
firstly there is no mechanic (as far as I know) that would allow us to tow another ship somewhere, but the autopilot delivery bit could work perhaps like a delivery 'over a period of time' or perhaps a wing type 'thingy' in place... I don't know, any ideas?
I see the 'sold for profit bit as a red card for some here, but there could be some proviso's that the OP perhaps hadn't though of (or even wanted) that could curtail massive profiteering.
Perhaps the registration or re-registration of a vessel that has been used for unsavoury purposes might have to please several authorities whereby it's ruddy expensive to clear the registration, and perhaps it might be cheaper to fire it into a shipyard as salvage for parts... this would see much less profit go the 'new owners' way
Perhaps the thought that the A rated drive in the big ol' hunk you just saved is gonna cost as much as the ship to replace... the scrap value might not actually be worth that much is you did a poor job of getting the thing to stop.
If ED drop legs on us (yes I still consider myself part of the playerbase despite my thoughts on the FSS) it will almost certainly have something like ship boarding in toe to toe combat, thus capturing a ship might not be so far a stretch of the imagination as we think now.
Anyway food for thought there!
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Maybe some sort of advanced docking computer you have to go purchase to get the unmanned ship to the nearest repair facility you could then sell back. You'd have to have enough credits up front to purchase it and if it's several million then that might help eliminate the issue of collaboration between someone wanting to "gift" a noob a ship thru an exploit. Could make a prize ship only from an NPC attack so that would completely eliminate any under the table deals. Maybe make levels of eligible prize ships so ships of the same or similar class can only be prize ships. That would eliminate a Sidewinder from "winning" a fight against an Anaconda or Clipper. A small ship can only take another small or medium ship, a medium ship can only take a medium or large ship and a large ship can only take a large ship. I'm sure there are other ways to reduce or eliminate the way this can be used in a less than designed method.
Could also have it "inspected" prior to legal registration before it becomes officially yours where all the modules are traded in and all cargo is removed so it's basically brought back to an E rated ship just like if you purchased it new. Once you upgraded and engineered it to your liking you might have only paid 60% of the credits required vs. what you'd pay if you bought a brand new ship. The remaining 40% would basically just be your own sweat equity doing the leg work for ownership. Or just sell it to the station for that 10% resale price and pocket the credits. So, if I was attacked in my small ship by something like an Imperial Courier and managed to win the battle the most I could make would be 10% less than the sales price of a new one if I sold it back. I think I'd rather keep the ship and refit it as my bank account allowed.
I suppose like the Docking computer suggestion perhaps 'Hire' or buy if you can afford it a (as yet un-created) tractor beam/magnetic grappler... perhaps a big module so it would only fit in a bigger ship, maybe the player has another hurdle to jump in that he/she has to be allied to the station that actually has one, which could be few and far between... it might be already on loan to someone else (trust me I've been to Hireme)
but yeah, plenty of scope here.
As for that arguments about real money transfers, don't consider answering them... that's ED's business, that's up the them to sort out.
but yeah, plenty of scope here.
As for that arguments about real money transfers, don't consider answering them... that's ED's business, that's up the them to sort out.
Seems like a way to duplicate heavily engineered modules?
Unless by seizing the vessel you also get the insurance rights (so the original owner cannot respawn). Which I imagine will not be popular.
One underlying issue is that ships are too easy to destroy and replace. The game as designed makes them transient things, that you get another copy of (fully customized with "unique" improvements) for minimal cost. This in part is because combat usually ends in a big bang - no really close-and-board stage. Even if if you could board, the easy replaceability of ships means that a commander is more likely to choose self-destruct over surrender.
Unless by seizing the vessel you also get the insurance rights (so the original owner cannot respawn). Which I imagine will not be popular.
One underlying issue is that ships are too easy to destroy and replace. The game as designed makes them transient things, that you get another copy of (fully customized with "unique" improvements) for minimal cost. This in part is because combat usually ends in a big bang - no really close-and-board stage. Even if if you could board, the easy replaceability of ships means that a commander is more likely to choose self-destruct over surrender.
I agree, faced with a losing battle or spite I'd go for the latter, I wonder if the 'insurance' might be revised to force players into deeper decision making!
:5% Monthly/quarterly/annually? ship insurance up front covers pilots for a full rebuy including cargo's, RGN modules and data, but the pilots federation remove the self destruct button!
:15% M/Q/A ship insurance as above but with Self Destruct allowed!
:25% one time payment per ship gives insurance to cover 1 new Standard ship and no contents cover, payable at purchase.
0% fly without rebuy... always an option!
and if Legs drops you might lose access to the sidewinder!
I know it's not gonna happen, we'll never get rid of the magical instantly reappearing fully genn'd replacement, but it could be fun choosing and getting it right
There's always multi-crew...
Get a friend to join in on the action, and they can pilot the ship back once you've secured it.
Regards,
o7
Maybe not outright capture of another ship (if it is without pilot, using a remote-control limpet), but if you find a signal source and there are wrecks, after scanning the computer (which still has encrypted data useless to you) you can place a beacon for other ships to find it and be rewarded by the faction, like salvage missions but without looking for a mission first.