PvP PSA about what it means when we say "Git Gud"

[Powderpanic]

I would like to take a moment to help players understand what we hope will happen, when a PVP player tells another player to “Git Gud”.

I should firstly point out that we all know that the correct term is “Get Good” but this being a forum and we being on the internet.
You are just going to have accept that internet slang and memes are an accepted thing. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

When a player tells another player to Git Gud, it’s because the player clearly isn’t Gud.

Now while being Gud is not a necessity for everything. Being Gud is required if you wish to visit open and survive a chance encounter with a dirty griefer!

By being told to Git Gud, we hope that the non Gud player will take a moment and think.

“Yes I can Git Gud! I have that ability in me! Why did I come here and pity post on the forum? That won’t help me Git Gud or help me out of a similar situation”

This player will then hopefully start his or her journey to Git Gud. The end result is they will be far better equipped to play not just in Open, but against whatever NPC’s that SJA can dream up and is allowed to release into the wild.

This is a GUD thing! Hurrah!

Sadly the general auto responses by people who refuse to Git Gud, is that the poster who recommends Gitting Gud, is infact a griefer. Just worried that the poster will change to an easier mode and deprive us of our gank based jollies. Am I right?

Let’s look at that for a moment shall we. Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space.

The chance of us running into the Op is incredibly small. Even if we actively hunted out the Op. Without him accepting a griefer as a friend. It’s as likely as Harry Potter becoming an FDEV Goodwill Ambassador, then we will find him/her/ze/apache.

What the player who recommends Gitting Gud wants, is for players to empower themselves with Gudness. Once they have this ability, they will be unstoppable in any mode they choose and will realise that the perceived danger of open is entirely relative to if you Git Gud or not

TLDR – GIT GUD and ED is EZ .

While direct PVP is not the answer to everything ( sadly )

It is an express route to Gitting Gud

Git Gud School https://discord.gg/MXQF7wb

Galactic Combat Initiative https://discord.gg/zySDdnG

Both will teach you how to GIT GUD at PVP.

From there, advance to arranged PVP with the PVP Hub https://discord.gg/HuShrr3

Open griefers will never run out of targets. If Open was as dead as everyone makes out, then it wouldn’t be any more dangerous than solo would it?

 

[ilo]

This post is a bit mediocre, you better git gud at writing mate.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

Any and all advice given on this forum is read as a "Git Gud" post, because people don't like being told how to play, and generally refuse to take the advice given.

I know taking advice is optional, but when you refuse to take someone's (good) advice, you sort of forfeit the right to complain. Lol

What some (lots of) people seem to want is the game to change for them. Which is bizarre. Learning is fun! Don't you remember school?
...
Wait. Bad example...
Anyway..


I'll admit, some advice is just "git gud" because it's so poorly worded. Like "you can avoid getting assault bounties by just not shooting clean ships! Simple!"...

An OPs response to their complaint also depends heavily on how it's worded.
A nicely written post with genuine questions and an apparent willingness to learn, will often get a good reply.
But if you just come in screaming "stuff is stoopud! waaaahhhhhh! Game is dead!", then que the trolls.

A fitting quote from I-War;

The player: So you're not going to help?
Jefferson Clay: Did I say that? No. Only I am gonna play it like a computer - Stupid dumb- questions in - stupid smart sarcastic remarks out. Now, if you ever manage to ask me a question which doesn’t insult my experience and intelligence, I daresay I’ll force a civil answer out of myself.

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

 

[Riverside]

The phrase is a meme, a common, base insult intended to attack the perceived inadequacy of the target.

The basic point about 'with patience and practice you too can be as good as you think I am, I am nothing special either' is fine, the way it is presented (as condescension) is clearly just designed to provoke. Fine amongst friends, impolite & arrogant amongst strangers.

Ignoring the insult and addressing the basic point, I have the following to offer. I have written this story a few times on here before:

I used to do sim-racing back in the late '90's & early 2000's, and having raced against the AI and tired of it, I went online and raced in open servers with all the backwards drivers, quitters & other trolls, because I didn't know anyone. After doing this a while I built up a bit of a reputation as one of the 'good guys' (actually interested in racing, stayed in 'till the end etc) and was invited to race in private leagues.

Through turn and other's apathy I ended up running one of the largest leagues, with around 200 members. I was good at it, I practised a lot and really I just wanted to race, but no one else was organising the kind of races I wanted, so I ended up organising them for myself and others. We fielded two teams for world championships & I was a well known name in sim-racing that others wanted to race, because I could be trusted, and because I was good (at one point ranked 45th in the world depending on how you measured it, out of around 10,000).

Eventually the admin side took up too much time and dealing with complaints added too much pressure. There were personality conflicts (understandable in a highly competitive environment), different, conflicting views on how rules should be implemented, all that stuff. All I wanted to do was race, but because everyone knew me I could never escape the pressure.

In running a league two relevant points became clear:

Some people are rubbish and will always be rubbish, most are okay and some are just amazing. Through dedication I was at the top end of okay, others thought I was what we used to call an Alien (ie no human can go that fast). It doesn't matter how much time most players put in, they will never be much better than they already are.

The other thing I realised was that competing at the top end as I did was hard work & not much fun. There's far more to lose than you gain, it's just not worth it long-term. The guys in the middle were having fun, making mistakes but because everyone around them was making mistakes too it wasn't so punishing, everyone on the grid stood a chance of winning a race.


So now I don't try quite so hard. I don't use external tools, I have a couple of spreadsheets for outfitting but it's populated with my own data, right or wrong. I don't practice a lot, I just play the game and enjoy it. I'll put in the effort if I want to achieve a personal goal but I don't compare myself to others except where it's necessary for survival.

To my mind, getting good and getting bored & frustrated with the game are synonymous. So maybe be a little less of a Timmy Try-Hard, relax & just enjoy the game

 

[The Replicated Man]

G I T - G U D - A snarky derogative term used to attempt to tell someone to ascend to a specific level

I think a big turn off about the hub and GCI is that its full of kids that yell insults at each other all the time. It's not the best place to learn.

 

[Dbrn47]

The term is used as an insult, it isn't meant to help anyone and it does the job. You can cover it up with a PSA if you like and you may even have good intentions, but it doesn't change how it is used and doesn't change its helpfulness. If you want to help, use more than 2 purposely mispelled words. Otherwise, keep it to yourself and we'll get along just fine.

 

[StiTch]

Ah my dear fellow, learn ye not that forumites are oft bereft of a funny bone?

The term is used as an insult, it isn't meant to help anyone and it does the job. You can cover it up with a PSA if you like and you may even have good intentions, but it doesn't change how it is used and doesn't change its helpfulness. If you want to help, use more than 2 purposely mispelled words. Otherwise, keep it to yourself and we'll get along just fine.

Come now. If yonder "victims" in question found such true offense in cheap interweb colloquialisms, they would not find themselves in great haste to yell "griefer" at every passing man that looks at them peculiarly.

Everyone is prone to employing a modicum of tongue-in-cheek-ism on occasion, albeit in different flavours. The difference I typically perceive is that following a humourous "git gud" there can normally be found a great wealth of advice from the git gudder himself or other companions; conversely, how often does one think I find productive information following a good shouting of "griefer"?

 

[Martian Successor]

Learning is fun! Don't you remember school?

I remember school all right ...

Spoiler

 

[Deleted member 115407]

G I T - G U D - A snarky derogative term used to attempt to tell someone to ascend to a specific level

I think a big turn off about the hub and GCI is that its full of kids that yell insults at each other all the time. It's not the best place to learn.

A thick skin and a willingness to give it right back helps. I'll disagree with you about the learning though - folks are pretty helpful, even to newcomers.

Ah my dear fellow, learn ye not that forumites are oft bereft of a funny bone?

Come now. If yonder "victims" in question found such true offense in cheap interweb colloquialisms, they would not find themselves in great haste to yell "griefer" at every passing man that looks at them peculiarly.

Everyone is prone to employing a modicum of tongue-in-cheek-ism on occasion, albeit in different flavours. The difference I typically perceive is that following a humourous "git gud" there can normally be found a great wealth of advice from the git gudder himself or other companions; conversely, how often does one think I find productive information following a good shouting of "griefer"?

Right? Someone says they can't make pancakes... you could write three paragraphs of the best advice in the world. Analyze what the guy did wrong, advise him on exactly how to weigh and measure his ingredients, best ingredients to use, when to mix, how hot the pan should be, when to pour, when to flip, the perfect butter-flapjack ratio and how many legs of syrup should run down the stack... follow it up with a quick " Git Gud,OP " and the whole internet goes insane.

As a matter of fact... you don't even have to write "Git Gud" to have anti-git-gud fanatics accuse you of telling someone to "git-gud", like...

"Hey, OP, instead of flying through the mailslot backwards, you should try going forwards instead!"
"Oh look! The usual band of git-gudder's here giving useless advice myah myah myah!"

 

[Mohrgan]

#FreeGitGud

 

[Riverside]

Doesn't sound like you've spent much time in either place. Perhaps you need slightly thicker skin.

IME the easily triggered are the ones with the thin skins. But sometimes they coincidentally trigger someone else. It should be enough to realise that there are strangers with 'thin skins', and that to ignore that shows either ignorance or disregard for strangers.

Throwing insults around isn't helpful behaviour by any measure unless it's among friends where context has been established. You may have guessed by now that I consider 'skin thickness' to be a similarly improper way to address a stranger. It's not an ice breaker.

 

[Dbrn47]

A thick skin and a willingness to give it right back helps. I'll disagree with you about the learning though - folks are pretty helpful, even to newcomers.



Right? Someone says they can't make pancakes... you could write three paragraphs of the best advice in the world. Analyze what the guy did wrong, advise him on exactly how to weigh and measure his ingredients, best ingredients to use, when to mix, how hot the pan should be, when to pour, when to flip, the perfect butter-flapjack ratio and how many legs of syrup should run down the stack... follow it up with a quick " Git Gud,OP " and the whole internet goes insane.

As a matter of fact... you don't even have to write "Git Gud" to have anti-git-gud fanatics accuse you of telling someone to "git-gud", like...

"Hey, OP, instead of flying through the mailslot backwards, you should try going forwards instead!"
"Oh look! The usual band of git-gudder's here giving useless advice myah myah myah!"

Idk what to tell you. For me, you do have to write git gud and in my experience those who use it aren't helpful. I'm not upset by it, but I will disregard anything you have to say post that. If you want to be helpful, be helpful, if you want to say 'git gud' go ahead and say it, just be mindful of the appropriate responses to both. One may earn my respect, the other just gets an eye roll and a 'disregard this dummy' thought. To each their own, banter among friends is fun, banter among strangers may not be received well or at all.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

Y'all are a bunch of squares, yo.

 

[Theodrid]

snip

Despite virtually every fibre of my body screaming at me that all you are doing here is putting lipstick on a pig PP I'll try to give you at least a partial benefit of the doubt.

If that is your intention when saying 'git gud' then fair enough although I can think of a thousand different things you could say to encourage someone to improve that are less........abrasive shall we say.

But I've been here a long time PP, I've seen that term thrown about laden with insults each side of it by some PVP'ers and trust me, there is no doubt on those occasions it was meant to insult, belittle and demean, nothing more, nothing less.

So, maybe, (and that's a very suspicious maybe from me), some PVP'ers have decent intentions when they tell someone to 'git gud', but plenty don't, and with that being the case a bit of guilt by association of the term is hardly surprising.

 

[sovapid]

To survive a gank, you don't even have to "git gud", I don't know if you even have to reach "git mediocre" levels.

Understanding the game and a decent ship build is enough.

Today I was stuck on a hours long boring conference call. So I fired up ED on my 2nd monitor in a smaller windowed and flew around in a python doing one G5 roll one every component in preparation for 3.0.

On my way to Jameson in Shinrarta and there are a few hollow squares in supercruise. I'm not that bothered and fly straight to the station while an fdl is pulling in behind me. Get interdicted, submit, and momentarily entertain the thought of fighting it out. At the same time a 2nd fdl drops in and I come to my senses. Since its only fdl's I just low wake out and head for the station.

Took minimal shield "damage" and nothing too special about it, a python with a size 6 prismatic that had 1 grade 5 engineering roll and a couple shield boosters, also with 1 grade 5 roll on them.

 

[Brrokk]

Yes, it's either arrogance or a clever parody. Not sure which.

 

[Whitehair]

Yes, it's either arrogance or a clever parody. Not sure which.

Pretty sure it isn't a clever parody.

 

[Torashuu]

Person gets ganked. Person does not wish to get ganked.
Person has choice:
A) spend time practicing escaping and ship fits, maybe even engineering -> Result: Person still gets jumped on, but escapes most of the time.
B) spend 1 minute to switch mode to private/solo -> Result: Never gets ganked again, game experienced as desired.

Now which of these two options is the smartest choice? Why the second of course. For the least investment you get maximum return. Those folks who immediately switch modes to avoid undesired gameplay got gud the fastest. They knew their goal and obtained their goal with minimum investment.

PvP has its place, some people indeed value and desire that particular skillset, but to disparage others for having game goals different than yours is really short-sighted. Telling them to get gud says more about your limited worldview than the skill (or lack there off) of your target.

 

[Powderpanic]

You are very much confusing intelligence, with skill.

I am very smart, incredibly so. However I cannot play the guitar. ( Except for the first few cords of Wonder wall )

See the difference?

This thread is about Skill.

Is it smart to avoid challenge because you are unable to deal with it. YES short term.

However if you do not git gud and in the event that NPC's actually become a challenge. You will have no place to hide in the bubble.

It has been said by many people on this forum and really in the heart of hearts, most players know this.
NPC's are stupidly easy to defeat, they do not adapt and they do not run strong builds ( they did for a bit and the forum imploded with rage).
Even the Thargoids became low hanging fruit within days of their release.

So I will give you that as long as NPC's stay as threatening as a kitten. Hiding from actual potential challenge in any mode but Open is a smart move.

Gitting Gud, is the better solution to cover all eventualities.

 

[ilo]

You are very much confusing intelligence, with skill.

I am very smart, incredibly so. However I cannot play the guitar. ( Except for the first few cords of Wonder wall )

See the difference?

This thread is about Skill.

Is it smart to avoid challenge because you are unable to deal with it. YES short term.

However if you do not git gud and in the event that NPC's actually become a challenge. You will have no place to hide in the bubble.

It has been said by many people on this forum and really in the heart of hearts, most players know this.
NPC's are stupidly easy to defeat, they do not adapt and they do not run strong builds ( they did for a bit and the forum imploded with rage).
Even the Thargoids became low hanging fruit within days of their release.

So I will give you that as long as NPC's stay as threatening as a kitten. Hiding from actual potential challenge in any mode but Open is a smart move.

Gitting Gud, is the better solution to cover all eventualities.

Oh, so you were serious and not trolling??? omg