My Corvette currently has beams on the S/M/L hardpoints, all efficient/oversized, and multis on the huge hardpoints, both overcharged/oversized. Damage output is fine, as far as it goes, but it occurred to me that maybe I should have the weapons the other way around? I did it this way in the first place to get the highest penetration value on the weapons primarily used against the hull. However, playing around with coriolis, if I'm reading it right the DPS is actually better if I use huge beams and more, smaller multis. What's the actual meta here?
Meta Discussion PvE - big laser/small kinetic, or small laser/big kinetic?
- Thread starter BradHann
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I use the huge beams, because they are awesome to blow up modules and with efficient and thermal vent you can SCB while shooting and you'll never lose ammo.
In the beginning I had two huge multis, but that just isn't as effective, and the beams look better too.
I use the smaller hardpoints to deliver corrosive and emissive with turrets, and the smalls with two long range rails to draw enemies and feeback cascade SCB builds.
In the beginning I had two huge multis, but that just isn't as effective, and the beams look better too.
I use the smaller hardpoints to deliver corrosive and emissive with turrets, and the smalls with two long range rails to draw enemies and feeback cascade SCB builds.
Both approaches are kinda valid.
The thing you're missing is Armor Hardness. Weapons have an Armor Piercing stat and this modifies the damage a ship's Hull takes. Shields don't have hardness.
Because of that the advice generally is kinetics in the larger HPs, however, if you're not also firing the kinetics at the same time as the lasers you might find taking shields down a pain (I wonder if this is where the "cheating NPCs have too many banks" thing comes from). This is also expensive for ammo.
With lasers in the larger HPs shields are less of an issue but then you might struggle to damage Hull.
This is why I just tend to do all lasers, fire them all the time, target the powerplant and not worry about ammo. For CZs and other tougher targets I bring one corrosive multicannon.
The thing you're missing is Armor Hardness. Weapons have an Armor Piercing stat and this modifies the damage a ship's Hull takes. Shields don't have hardness.
Because of that the advice generally is kinetics in the larger HPs, however, if you're not also firing the kinetics at the same time as the lasers you might find taking shields down a pain (I wonder if this is where the "cheating NPCs have too many banks" thing comes from). This is also expensive for ammo.
With lasers in the larger HPs shields are less of an issue but then you might struggle to damage Hull.
This is why I just tend to do all lasers, fire them all the time, target the powerplant and not worry about ammo. For CZs and other tougher targets I bring one corrosive multicannon.
On my Corvette I use two huge efficient TV beams, they boil away NPC shields very quick and melt armour on the medium and smaller ships also reasonably fast. If I run out of weapon capacitor energy before the target is finished, I switch to my size 2 and 1 Multies, which has high cap auto loaders, except for one size 1 with corrosive. The size 3 slot I played around with some fixed weapons but finally settled with a high cap, drag, seeker missile launcher. I use the missiles to slow down the faster targets or cause damage while they are chaffing.
I use two sets of firing groups A and B, both have the seeker but one has the beams and the other has the Multis, switch as needed to recharge the capacitor, without need to stop firing.
Most of the time in RES sites the beams are enough but in CZ I have to use the Multis a bit more. Targeting the power plant usually kill them well before the armour is gone. The huge beams penetrate well if at the right angle.
Be careful though, I got in trouble a few times with those huge beams in RES sites by accidentally hitting the good guys. Those beams put out a lot of damage in a short time. The gimbals also tend to weave around at the longer distances, I normally only fire when the target is close. Rather use the seeker missile to draw a target in, it has a 6km range. The seeker is not so good in CZ at longer ranges due to a lot of ships running with point defence, but it still works well most of the time.
O7 CMDRs
I use two sets of firing groups A and B, both have the seeker but one has the beams and the other has the Multis, switch as needed to recharge the capacitor, without need to stop firing.
Most of the time in RES sites the beams are enough but in CZ I have to use the Multis a bit more. Targeting the power plant usually kill them well before the armour is gone. The huge beams penetrate well if at the right angle.
Be careful though, I got in trouble a few times with those huge beams in RES sites by accidentally hitting the good guys. Those beams put out a lot of damage in a short time. The gimbals also tend to weave around at the longer distances, I normally only fire when the target is close. Rather use the seeker missile to draw a target in, it has a 6km range. The seeker is not so good in CZ at longer ranges due to a lot of ships running with point defence, but it still works well most of the time.
O7 CMDRs
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I'm using two med beams, one turreted large beam, on smalls I have turreted corrosive multican and turreted emissive pulse (all long range, excepet hicap multi). Huge hardpoints - rapid firing multis + oversized which is absolute blast. Sometimes I switch large hardpoint for something else like a pacifier, hammer or missiles.
Just to clarify
Shields only 'heal' when not getting damaged. Any damage done stops the regen process.
Once shield go down then they will recharge to 50% over a certain time. And if they have big shields it'll be a long time in which you are working on the hull...
So in the end max energy damage may not be the best applied....
Shields are bigger targets than the hull of a ship. That makes shard cannons and incendiary frags useful against them as they catch all the pellets. My preference for shield killers, though are Cytoscramblers. Sure, you have to get close, but they make the best use out of small hardpoints, unless you use those for experimental effect application. Perfect for a Chieftain.
On my Corvette, I use two medium and one large efficient plasma slug accelerator. They hit shields well enough and the damage is impressive, especially for how little capacitor it uses when you take your time to aim shots. The huge ones are rapid fire auto loading MCs and the small ones go with corrosive high capacity MCs.
On my Corvette, I use two medium and one large efficient plasma slug accelerator. They hit shields well enough and the damage is impressive, especially for how little capacitor it uses when you take your time to aim shots. The huge ones are rapid fire auto loading MCs and the small ones go with corrosive high capacity MCs.
Smaller laser, bigger ballistic is how I run mine. Once you get corrosive shell on one of your multis...hulls just disappear.
Same here, but I use cytos to fast delete shields - after that, OC MC.s set ( one with corro) will just chew hulls like a piece of paper...
Doing this on my noob engineering chieftain... wow that's alot of fun.
3x small long range beam + 1x medium OC'ed multi-servo MC + 2x large OC'ed MC (1x Corrosive 1x Incendiary)
Shortgun ver: with 1x medium double shot oversized frag, 2x large double shot frags (1x Corrosive 1x Incendiary) -> cannot enjoy more watching those poor small NPC melt in a single pass!
Another pro for corrosive shell - the visual effect is nice!
OMFG.... the small long range beams were all oversized, just changed 2 to thermal vent; as long as i keep the target in the view, I can just HOLD the trigger to freeze my cockpit....
no more heat problem now it seems, can fire those incendiary double shot frag comfortably with beams together. Can't wait to try MCs again.
Small laser, medium kinetic, big plasma.
Big chunks of health disappearing is always the most satisfying.
Big chunks of health disappearing is always the most satisfying.
OP didn't say what type of combat they do. You need different loadouts for different types. For best earnings potential when bounty farming:
2 x 4A pulse lasers efficient flow control
1 x 3E Burst efficient flow control
2 x 2D Beam long range thermal vent
2 x 1G Pulse efficient flow control
What you lose on the slightly longer TTK over more powerful weapons, you more than make up for by not having to leave the site fto replenish ammo, and less time wasted trying to get the right spawn, as when you get a good one, you can stay as long as you want. In 3 to 4hr evening seesions, I was consistently making over 1/2 billion, of which 120 mil came from bounties, the rest from massacre missions. Set your fighter on the target before opening fire to get the quickest TTK. That makes considerably more difference than what weapos you use.
That loadout would also be good for fast ranking in a high RES with a spawn of small ships, where fire power isn't so important, but long range and speed is.
2 x 4A pulse lasers efficient flow control
1 x 3E Burst efficient flow control
2 x 2D Beam long range thermal vent
2 x 1G Pulse efficient flow control
What you lose on the slightly longer TTK over more powerful weapons, you more than make up for by not having to leave the site fto replenish ammo, and less time wasted trying to get the right spawn, as when you get a good one, you can stay as long as you want. In 3 to 4hr evening seesions, I was consistently making over 1/2 billion, of which 120 mil came from bounties, the rest from massacre missions. Set your fighter on the target before opening fire to get the quickest TTK. That makes considerably more difference than what weapos you use.
That loadout would also be good for fast ranking in a high RES with a spawn of small ships, where fire power isn't so important, but long range and speed is.
The 2 class IV with beams or pulse are a downgrade in a Vette, lol.
The weapon who rule all is the MC . best RoF / dam per minute, a pair of OC MCs with autoloader will shame any other weapon by a far margin !
Put on the class II a pair of Burst Lasers with OC, another turreted/gimballed in the underbelly class III, add 2 small MCs with High Ammo and corro ( ideal is to put there 2 cytos if you can) and you get an "invincible" Vette, who can fire non-stop with 4 pips in sys and just 2 on weapon, no overheat at all, and can stay in a CZ or HazR hours and hours, if you do bother to mine once a week, so you have more than enough cheap reloads to synth ammo.
The 2 class IV MC are really great at ammo count - since the RoF is relatively slow, they will have enough ammo for 15-30 kills with just one reload. No overheat problems, great power reserve, and a Vette with 4 pips in sys can tank 4ever.
In my experience ( and over the years I run all builds...) this build is by far THE most effective. The burst laser chew the shields, the big MCs pair coupled with the small corrosive will eat the hull in no time, and will pop small/medium in seconds. Ammo wise - easy & cheap to synth "on the spot" each 15 minutes. Power levels required are minimal and that allow you to practical DOUBLE your shields since a 4 pips in sys will make your shields stronger. This makes one to two pips in shields fairly useless (except for recharging the SYS capacitor), while 4 pips make your shield around 2.5 times stronger.
( 4 pips to shields allows the shields to absorb around 150% more damage )
The burst lasers need significant less power than the beams and are the most effective vs shields. Fire groups are easy to build since you can split your power in 2 main groups: one for collapsing shields, the other for popping hulls. Using them in sequence grant you non-stop fire. And you can take A LOT of punishment ( 2-3 wings of NPC at once !) with no big problems. The fact your Huge weapons have a low power consumption allow your Vette the "luxury" of fighting at will with 4 pips on shields and only 2 on weapon.
Put there 2 Beams and you will lose that. And remember the 600m fallout rule on lasers.
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Some very good sensible options here, so how about something silly.
Two huge short range thermal conduit plasma accelerators would mean that it doesn't really matter what you put on the other hardpoints. Maybe put something gimballed to deal with any smaller ships you're struggling to hit, but with the big weapons you'll only need 2-3 trigger pulls to connect and whatever you're up against is going to be in trouble, if not already in pieces.
It's doubtful that it's the optimal build for farming for really long periods due to needing ammo but I can solo high CZs without synthing, but it'll put a smile on your face. The big advantage is it ignores chaff (due to being fixed) and SCBs (in the majority of cases, they don't spin up fast enough before you've knocked down the shields entirely).
Two huge short range thermal conduit plasma accelerators would mean that it doesn't really matter what you put on the other hardpoints. Maybe put something gimballed to deal with any smaller ships you're struggling to hit, but with the big weapons you'll only need 2-3 trigger pulls to connect and whatever you're up against is going to be in trouble, if not already in pieces.
It's doubtful that it's the optimal build for farming for really long periods due to needing ammo but I can solo high CZs without synthing, but it'll put a smile on your face. The big advantage is it ignores chaff (due to being fixed) and SCBs (in the majority of cases, they don't spin up fast enough before you've knocked down the shields entirely).
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The big downfall is the RoF AND the fact you will have a VERY hard time against wings of agile medium / small NPCs who will dance circles around you, and you have not enough "volume" of fire to inflict constant & significant damage. The build can be strong vs big NPCs ( Annies, Type10, etc) but not so great vs small / medium, where you need to get close and control the distance - the Vette, like any big ship, cannot do that very well. Fixed weapons vs fast, agile, small ships means you will miss a lot of shots with a slow firing weapon.
The MCs compensate that with sheer volume of shells ( trow enough h... at the wall and some will stick) AND with the option to mount gimballed, even at class IV.
Ammo synth for plasma guns also is not cheap.... Then the thermal conduit have another downfall - you would see smoke, subsystem damage, etc
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I went with turreted efficient TV beams for my Fedvette's small, medium and large hardpoints, and gimballed overcharged multicannons with auto-loader for the 2 huge.
The turreted beams allow me to easily take down smaller, more nimble targets with extremely minimal effort, which I found to always be the most problematic ships to deal with on any previous build that used gimballed lasers. And the reduced capacitor drain from using turrets allows me to keep all 5 firing constantly with only 2 pips in weapons, which leaves me with more pips to work with for maneuvering speed and shields.
I went with auto-loader on the huge multis because I would frequently find myself without any ammo in the chamber when I needed it. In most engagements you aren't constantly in front of your opponent, so those periods of time when your shot lines up and they aren't chaffing, you wanna have something ready to fire. Since huge multicannons have a much slower firing rate than their smaller cousins, auto-loader can easily keep up with the demand. I haven't seen a single reload cycle since equipping it.
Another benefit of huge multis' slower firing rate is that you don't burn through your ammo as quickly (it's the same number for all multis), giving you much more staying power for those longer hazres sessions.
I would absolutely not recommend auto-loader on anything smaller than huge multis though. The high RoF of other multis makes the benefits of auto-loader negligible.
The turreted beams allow me to easily take down smaller, more nimble targets with extremely minimal effort, which I found to always be the most problematic ships to deal with on any previous build that used gimballed lasers. And the reduced capacitor drain from using turrets allows me to keep all 5 firing constantly with only 2 pips in weapons, which leaves me with more pips to work with for maneuvering speed and shields.
I went with auto-loader on the huge multis because I would frequently find myself without any ammo in the chamber when I needed it. In most engagements you aren't constantly in front of your opponent, so those periods of time when your shot lines up and they aren't chaffing, you wanna have something ready to fire. Since huge multicannons have a much slower firing rate than their smaller cousins, auto-loader can easily keep up with the demand. I haven't seen a single reload cycle since equipping it.
Another benefit of huge multis' slower firing rate is that you don't burn through your ammo as quickly (it's the same number for all multis), giving you much more staying power for those longer hazres sessions.
I would absolutely not recommend auto-loader on anything smaller than huge multis though. The high RoF of other multis makes the benefits of auto-loader negligible.
As with a lot of things, YMMV. I don't find it that difficult to hit small ships in my Corvette and the damage done makes the trade offs worth while, for me at least. It's not the first choice I would make on my first Corvette build however, but that's all been covered in previous posts anyway. With the many posts that crop up on the subject of CZ NPCs being bullet sponges or players fed up with chaff usage, it's an alternative that gets around those things.
Any gimballed can become a fixed weapon in an instant, but no fixed can become gimballed. The only inconvenient is a lower damage, but you can compensate a bit to that with overcharged. The argument I made is not about hitting small ships with the slow firing PA - but again, hitting them CONSTANTLY - something very hard to do, especially fighting 3-6 or even 9 of them at once; CZ are "soft" compared with some ResH where you may get swarmed by 2-3 wings AT ONCE and you need to kill them fast and efficient ;
NPC.s are indeed bullets sponge when you fight them 1 vs 1 or 1 vs 2 - but why you do not load 10-20 tones of gold and jump in a CNP and try to fight them there ?
Soon you will realize how thing change, lol.
What you need from a Vette is not "nice" kills but yes a flexible, but - most important - an efficient killing machine, something she can excel at.
NPC.s are indeed bullets sponge when you fight them 1 vs 1 or 1 vs 2 - but why you do not load 10-20 tones of gold and jump in a CNP and try to fight them there ?
Soon you will realize how thing change, lol.
What you need from a Vette is not "nice" kills but yes a flexible, but - most important - an efficient killing machine, something she can excel at.
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