Meta Discussion PvE - big laser/small kinetic, or small laser/big kinetic?

[Dillon Fallon]

Any gimballed can become a fixed weapon in an instant, but no fixed can become gimballed. The only inconvenient is a lower damage, but you can compensate a bit to that with overcharged. The argument I made is not about hitting small ships with the slow firing PA - but again, hitting them CONSTANTLY - something very hard to do, especially fighting 3-6 or even 9 of them at once; CZ are "soft" compared with some ResH where you may get swarmed by 2-3 wings AT ONCE and you need to kill them fast and efficient ;
NPC.s are indeed bullets sponge when you fight them 1 vs 1 or 1 vs 2 - but why you do not load 10-20 tones of gold and jump in a CNP and try to fight them there ?
Soon you will realize how thing change, lol.
What you need from a Vette is not "nice" kills but yes a flexible, but - most important - an efficient killing machine, something she can excel at.

In a Corvette you really shouldn't be worrying about anything the game can throw at you or you have some build issues going on. I don't take large ships to RESs or comp navs for that reason. Even 6-9 NPCs should go down pretty quick since it's not going to take much to knock down a small ship, especially since you have 5 other hardpoints available. With the big money and best materials drops in those scenarios coming from the big ships you can easily hit though, I know what I'd be prioritising.

But as I said, YMMV. Don't assume that the OP wouldn't be able to do that with practice. As you said, it's hard, but it's not impossible.

Again, I'm suggesting an alternative to what has already posted above and I've certainly not suggested that anything above should be ignored. As was mentioned above though, with the OP not explicitly saying what sort of combat they were wanting to do (CZs, assassination missions, Haz RES/comp nav beacons) different builds might apply. Could be that this is for an armed trader build and they primarily want to take down pirate Anacondas and T-10s. If your primary targets are those things, it's not going to take long before you're able to do consistent hits on ships that size.

 

[Homerzilla]

In a Corvette you really shouldn't be worrying about anything the game can throw at you or you have some build issues going on. I don't take large ships to RESs or comp navs for that reason. Even 6-9 NPCs should go down pretty quick since it's not going to take much to knock down a small ship, especially since you have 5 other hardpoints available. With the big money and best materials drops in those scenarios coming from the big ships you can easily hit though, I know what I'd be prioritising.

But as I said, YMMV. Don't assume that the OP wouldn't be able to do that with practice. As you said, it's hard, but it's not impossible.

Again, I'm suggesting an alternative to what has already posted above and I've certainly not suggested that anything above should be ignored. As was mentioned above though, with the OP not explicitly saying what sort of combat they were wanting to do (CZs, assassination missions, Haz RES/comp nav beacons) different builds might apply. Could be that this is for an armed trader build and they primarily want to take down pirate Anacondas and T-10s. If your primary targets are those things, it's not going to take long before you're able to do consistent hits on ships that size.

An MC build in a Vette is laughing at 6-9 Pirates. I DO TAKE the Vette in HazRe and I DO engage 2-3 wings at once with no big sweat. The MC build is by far the most durable end effective, but my limit is 9 opponents - and this limit is easily broken in a CNP where you may get swarmed by a dozen or more in just few seconds, if you dare to load something valuable.
Such fight I will avoid, for the reasons you stated above. But in HazR I prefer the Vette when I have time enough ( 30 min for 30 kills) since I can load 20-256 limpets and scoop ANYTHING cross my path. I just engage, like I said, 6-9 Pirate, especially if in those 2-3 wings are 1-2 heavies - who indeed give the most valuable mats. I use an SLF to tag/ keep busy the far away ones, making them to come after me. And here come the problem with the PA.s - only one in a dozen of targets, probably, is a big one. Majority are mall / medium. You need killing numbers - so if you want to finish the mission(s) fast, you attack ALL - with a PA your main tool, you will have troubles. Lot of troubles.

 

[d8veh]

The 2 class IV with beams or pulse are a downgrade in a Vette, lol.
The weapon who rule all is the MC . best RoF / dam per minute, a pair of OC MCs with autoloader will shame any other weapon by a far margin !
Put on the class II a pair of Burst Lasers with OC, another turreted/gimballed in the underbelly class III, add 2 small MCs with High Ammo and corro ( ideal is to put there 2 cytos if you can) and you get an "invincible" Vette, who can fire non-stop with 4 pips in sys and just 2 on weapon, no overheat at all, and can stay in a CZ or HazR hours and hours, if you do bother to mine once a week, so you have more than enough cheap reloads to synth ammo.

The 2 class IV MC are really great at ammo count - since the RoF is relatively slow, they will have enough ammo for 15-30 kills with just one reload. No overheat problems, great power reserve, and a Vette with 4 pips in sys can tank 4ever.
In my experience ( and over the years I run all builds...) this build is by far THE most effective. The burst laser chew the shields, the big MCs pair coupled with the small corrosive will eat the hull in no time, and will pop small/medium in seconds. Ammo wise - easy & cheap to synth "on the spot" each 15 minutes. Power levels required are minimal and that allow you to practical DOUBLE your shields since a 4 pips in sys will make your shields stronger. This makes one to two pips in shields fairly useless (except for recharging the SYS capacitor), while 4 pips make your shield around 2.5 times stronger.

( 4 pips to shields allows the shields to absorb around 150% more damage )

The burst lasers need significant less power than the beams and are the most effective vs shields. Fire groups are easy to build since you can split your power in 2 main groups: one for collapsing shields, the other for popping hulls. Using them in sequence grant you non-stop fire. And you can take A LOT of punishment ( 2-3 wings of NPC at once !) with no big problems. The fact your Huge weapons have a low power consumption allow your Vette the "luxury" of fighting at will with 4 pips on shields and only 2 on weapon.
Put there 2 Beams and you will lose that. And remember the 600m fallout rule on lasers.

As I said, you make more money with all lasers. The idea is not to have to keep going back to replenish ammo. Check how much money you can make in 3 hours in a Haz RES so that we can compare. In the long-term, I average about 40 mil per hour - just from bounties and with level 2 PP.

 

[GloatingSwine]

As I said, you make more money with all lasers. The idea is not to have to keep going back to replenish ammo. Check how much money you can make in 3 hours in a Haz RES so that we can compare. In the long-term, I average about 40 mil per hour - just from bounties and with level 2 PP.

You're saying this as if synthing rearms isn't completely trivial.

 

[Screemonster]

DPS isn't everything. Huge beams might do more DPS than huge multis, but they also have significantly higher distro draw and a far less forgiving damage falloff, which can be a big deal in something as slow as a corvette that can't control range as effectively as other ships.

 

[GloatingSwine]

Yeah, I generally consider huge beams a bad bet because anything that will die before your distributor does wasn't worth firing your huge beams at in the first place, it would have melted pretty instantly with your other weapons alone.

On a laser-vette large efficient bursts are a better bet for sustained DPS.

 

[Homerzilla]

Yeah, I generally consider huge beams a bad bet because anything that will die before your distributor does wasn't worth firing your huge beams at in the first place, it would have melted pretty instantly with your other weapons alone.

On a laser-vette large efficient bursts are a better bet for sustained DPS.

1 - Ammo wise - I do mine at least 3-4 session / week ; A single session JUST ONE - give you enough materials for some 100 (!!) reloads ! Now , 3-4 sessions - do the math....
In 45 min ( average time for me in a Haz Rez, to get 30-60 kills) I never do more than 5-6 synth reloads. Just ONE mining session is enough to "cover" 15 or more fighting sessions.
2 - Beams do indeed most sustained dam/ sec BUT .... you cannot fire NON-STOP 2 Huge beams - you will deplete your dis fast, and by no means you can fire at will with just 2 pips in sys like you can with 2 Huge MCs
3 - against hulls ( once you depleted the shields) you know, beams are not the best thing, and not even burst are really great; here the kinetic weapons rule- MCs, rails, are way better. Pure dam / sec vs un-shielded hulls - the MCs lead by a far margin.
4 - see the Dmg of efficient burst vs OC MCs.

 

[Screemonster]

Yeah, I generally consider huge beams a bad bet because anything that will die before your distributor does wasn't worth firing your huge beams at in the first place, it would have melted pretty instantly with your other weapons alone.

On a laser-vette large efficient bursts are a better bet for sustained DPS.

On my laser-vette that I built for "fight a bunch of CZs in a row without rearming" I put fuel PAs in the huge slots. Anything that's small and agile enough to be a pain to hit with them tends to die to my other guns quickly enough.

 

[GloatingSwine]

I used to use those, then I just embraced the synthesis option and got my 10% damage back.

My actual 'vette now is 2x PA, 1x MC, 4x Burst Laser.

 

[BradHann]

Well I can't hit the broad side of a Class O star with fixed weapons, so PAs are not even an option for me. Also, I don't have the attention span for hours upon hours of pews so ammo resupply is never going to be an issue.

 

[Homerzilla]

Well I can't hit the broad side of a Class O star with fixed weapons, so PAs are not even an option for me. Also, I don't have the attention span for hours upon hours of pews so ammo resupply is never going to be an issue.

PA.s are very ineffective vs small, fast and agile targets, have a very slow RoF, and they drain a lot of power, while cooking your ship if used in excess. You cannot field too many of them. They hit hard, indeed, but if you need a weapon good against ANYTHING, with cheap ammo, and with the best damage output / second, the MCs are the top choice.
It is not by coincidence the MCs are considered by many THE best weapon in game - low power requirements, cheap ammo, all variants available ( fixed, gimballed, turreted) , very low heat, and a lot of damage output in the shortest time.
A Class IV Over Charged MC can dish a huge amount of damage , compared with a PA, but much much faster, at a fraction of power and much less heat.

 

[n13L5]

Any gimballed can become a fixed weapon in an instant, but no fixed can become gimballed. The only inconvenient is a lower damage, but you can compensate a bit to that with overcharged. The argument I made is not about hitting small ships with the slow firing PA - but again, hitting them CONSTANTLY - something very hard to do, especially fighting 3-6 or even 9 of them at once; CZ are "soft" compared with some ResH where you may get swarmed by 2-3 wings AT ONCE and you need to kill them fast and efficient ;
NPC.s are indeed bullets sponge when you fight them 1 vs 1 or 1 vs 2 - but why you do not load 10-20 tones of gold and jump in a CNP and try to fight them there ?
Soon you will realize how thing change, lol.
What you need from a Vette is not "nice" kills but yes a flexible, but - most important - an efficient killing machine, something she can excel at.

How do you switch a gimballed gun to fixed?

 

[Homerzilla]

How do you switch a gimballed gun to fixed?

just un-select the target
after, the weapon will shoot like a fixed one

 

[baudelier]

It depends on what you want to do.

My PvE bounty hunters use big lasers backed by smaller kinetics. That way when I run out of ammo, I can still finish off whatever ships are around me.

While my PvP Viper IV uses double shot frags with Cytoscramblers.

 

[Don Alvarez]

On my laser-vette that I built for "fight a bunch of CZs in a row without rearming" I put fuel PAs in the huge slots. Anything that's small and agile enough to be a pain to hit with them tends to die to my other guns quickly enough.

Interesting idea. Have you ever run out of fuel?

 

[Screemonster]

Interesting idea. Have you ever run out of fuel?

I didn't even come close to running out of fuel even when I tried it out with PAs in everything besides the smalls. I mainly changed that because the 'vette's convergence isn't really all that great on the mediums and the large, so if I was shooting out a capship's heat relay I could only land the two huges at once anyway, and it was impossible to land all five on any smaller ships - plus the ever so slightly different fire rates made my shots and reload times go out of sync which annoyed me.

I've got an increased fuel tank but honestly even the stock one would be fine, my endurance as a pilot runs out long before my fuel/ammo does.

 

[SergMx]

The smaller the class of the weapon, the more damage penalty it receives. In the game it was designed that kinetics is good for hull penetration and thermal weapons are good for destroying shields. But after the introduction of engineers in the game, it all lost its meaning.