Modes PvE Mode for Open?

[Agony_Aunt]

Due to a small but vocal group of people who want to change how PG/Solo players play, i think its time for fair play and turnabout, so let's take a look at Open.

This is the first of two threads looking at the possibility of changing how Open works.

How could a PvE flag work for Open?

A PvE flat would mean that when enabled, players cannot damage other players, either with weapons or via ramming. Some edge cases would probably need considering as well.

However, there is a case for situations where the flag would be disabled. I'll list some here:

1) If you have a bounty the PvE flag is disabled. Doesn't matter whether its from killing a player or an NPC. If you are wanted, you are fair game.

2) The PvE flag cannot work in Anarchies. Fair game and all that. Lawless systems (ie: ones without a human presence, i think maybe it should remain. Would stop things like ganking at Sag A*).

3) If you are carrying any powerplay cargo or in hostile territory, then its disabled.

There might be other situations where it could be reasonable to disable.

When could you enable/disable? Probably not on the fly, probably only when docked or when logged off (from menu)?

Thoughts?

PvEers - could this be interesting for you, especially those of you who already play in Open?

PvPers - I'd like to ask if you consider this acceptable, but that might be a stretch. Do you have some specific objections or suggest changes that could make it acceptable?

 

[metatheurgist]

Wouldn't a working C&P system be better?

 

[[VR] Shadowman]

For me, it would be a no. A PvP flag should do just that: disable all PvP. If I commit a crime, I would expect to be dealt with by NPCs, not players. If I wanted to engage other players, then I'd turn the flag on.

However, I would play in open and may dip my toes into PvP every now and then, whereas at the moment, there is zero chance because I don't login to open.

 

[GreyAreaUK]

If such a flag were implemented then I'd say it should only apply in systems with an active security presence - Low, Medium, High. Anarchies and Lawless systems should not apply. Yes it means that stuff can happen at Sag A/Beagle Point, but I think that has to be allowed.

For what it's worth though (and as a data point) I play in Open and probably wouldn't enable it.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Wouldn't a working C&P system be better?

Let's put it this way, no matter what FD do, there will be those who find ways to get around it or abuse it.

Case in point: Station ramming.

 

[Stinja]

While I don't particularly advocate a PvE mode, I don't think the OP's idea is the way to do it, and will cause confusion.

Just make PvE Open purely PvE flagged always. Ideologically it should be Mobius without the group limit.


If there should be a PvE Open group, with PvP optional, then make the flag user selectable. PvE flag on = no damage between players; PvE flag off (ie: PvP) then damage at any time, as is current Open.
Make the flag only able to be toggled while docked, with a decently long delay or something.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

While I don't particularly advocate a PvE mode, I don't think the OP's idea is the way to do it, and will cause confusion.

Just make PvE Open purely PvE flagged always. Ideologically it should be Mobius without the group limit.


If there should be a PvE Open group, with PvP optional, then make the flag user selectable. PvE flag on = no damage between players; PvE flag off (ie: PvP) then damage at any time, as is current Open.
Make the flag only able to be toggled while docked, with a decently long delay or something.

Hmm... someone should make a thread about that....

 

[Perseus]

I'd rather see an eye watering Ironman mode instead.

 

[Stigbob]

I like open and PVP (and the associated risks) and wouldn't like to see it die off, which a formalized open PVE mode could possibly do given the obvious massive popularity of Mobius.

A PVP flag might be the best way to go as it means (I think) the minimal alteration approach to the game, however it would need to be introduced in such a way that that it couldn't be "gamed". Maybe a checkbox when you select the mode you want to play in or a pop up window PVP YES/NO as you select the mode, so you would have to exit to the main menu to alter it. That would negate dirty tricks via turning it off mid fight.

Or it could be done on a more long term basis with you only able to set the flag once a day, or even a fixed choice when you start a new CMDR.

(I put this in your other thread, but it's actually more suited to this one)

 

[Robert Maynard]

I like open and PVP (and the associated risks) and wouldn't like to see it die off, which a formalized open PVE mode could possibly do given the obvious massive popularity of Mobius.

If those that prefer PvP represent a significant proportion of the player-base then Open(-PvP) would not die off.

 

[Stigbob]

If those that prefer PvP represent a significant proportion of the player-base then Open(-PvP) would not die off.

And if they don't and it does die off not many people will care.

You are probably right though, I was thinking in terms of PVP being the remit of player killers/GaSPers not actually PVP orientated players. Which is a mistake on my part, the real ones probably make up a far greater number easily enough to keep a mode alive.

 

[racer1]

I'm not a fan of a PvE flag. Everyone playing in open should face the same risks.

If they did a PvE mode I want a separate mode.

And in a resource constrained situation PvE mode isn't high on my priority list.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

And in a resource constrained situation PvE mode isn't high on my priority list.

I'm curious. What resources are constrained in ED? Everything is effectively infinite.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I'm curious. What resources are constrained in ED? Everything is effectively infinite.

Development resources....

 

[Robert Maynard]

And if they don't and it does die off not many people will care.

I would care - even though I don't share the enthusiasm for the play-style - we all bought (or backed) the game with with three game modes, single shared galaxy state and mode mobility - which permits players to choose whether, or not, to play in a game mode where PvP is enabled (i.e. both multi-player game modes) on a session-by-session basis.

To create an Open-PvE mode now would be seen by some as Frontier diminishing PvP (by not leaving Open as the only game mode with an unlimited population).

Anyway, DBOBE has indicated that any attempt to create an Open-PvE mode would be complicated by the requirement to mitigate any actions that could be considered to be PvP (i.e. ramming, blocking, etc.) - so I don't expect that it would happen soon, if at all.

The population of Open has always been dependent on players wanting to play there - with each player able to create and maintain their own Private Group, should they so choose to do. Frontier seem to be taking steps to encourage players to play in it - by reducing disincentives. Hopefully these measures will be successful - however as Frontier are the only ones that know how many players play and in which modes, we'll never know for sure unless told.

 

[Darkfyre99]

Due to a small but vocal group of people who want to change how PG/Solo players play, i think its time for fair play and turnabout, so let's take a look at Open.

This is the first of two threads looking at the possibility of changing how Open works.

How could a PvE flag work for Open?

A PvE flat would mean that when enabled, players cannot damage other players, either with weapons or via ramming. Some edge cases would probably need considering as well.

However, there is a case for situations where the flag would be disabled. I'll list some here:

1) If you have a bounty the PvE flag is disabled. Doesn't matter whether its from killing a player or an NPC. If you are wanted, you are fair game.

2) The PvE flag cannot work in Anarchies. Fair game and all that. Lawless systems (ie: ones without a human presence, i think maybe it should remain. Would stop things like ganking at Sag A*).

3) If you are carrying any powerplay cargo or in hostile territory, then its disabled.

There might be other situations where it could be reasonable to disable.

When could you enable/disable? Probably not on the fly, probably only when docked or when logged off (from menu)?

Thoughts?

PvEers - could this be interesting for you, especially those of you who already play in Open?

PvPers - I'd like to ask if you consider this acceptable, but that might be a stretch. Do you have some specific objections or suggest changes that could make it acceptable?

I'd prefer an effective C&P system to be honest.

I liked the originally proposed C&P system, which had two tiers: one for the Pilot's Federation (players), and one for the other factions in the game (NPCs). If they had implemented the Pilots' Federation punishments from the start, as opposed to briefly flirting with it (they're going to need it even with the new C&P changes), the GSPie population (Ganks Single Players) wouldn't be so out of control today.

Frontier's mistake was thinking that the NPC C&P tier, one designed to make criminal play fun for people who play against NPCs, would work at controlling players who rely on other players for their entertainment, but aren't willing to return the favor. A good C&P system can encourage adversarial play, while still providing considerable friction towards chronic toxic behavior.

Having said that, if a "PvE flag" was enabled in the game, I'd be even more encouraged to fly in Open vulnerable to PvP. Blockade running is extremely easy as it is right now. With most of the player base in Open, just with PvE enabled, the GSPie population would find themselves in even more distress, as their instances filled up with targets they can't kill. "Vulnerable" targets like me would change from being a glowing neon sign in the darkness, to a literal needle in a haystack.

The lamentations of the GSPies deprived of their "content" would be music to my ears, and delicious would be the salt of their tears.

------------------

I'd rather see an eye watering Ironman mode instead.

I agree.

 

[hypervoodoo77]

Due to a small but vocal group of people who want to change how PG/Solo players play, i think its time for fair play and turnabout, so let's take a look at Open.

This is the first of two threads looking at the possibility of changing how Open works.

How could a PvE flag work for Open?

A PvE flat would mean that when enabled, players cannot damage other players, either with weapons or via ramming. Some edge cases would probably need considering as well.

However, there is a case for situations where the flag would be disabled. I'll list some here:

1) If you have a bounty the PvE flag is disabled. Doesn't matter whether its from killing a player or an NPC. If you are wanted, you are fair game.

2) The PvE flag cannot work in Anarchies. Fair game and all that. Lawless systems (ie: ones without a human presence, i think maybe it should remain. Would stop things like ganking at Sag A*).

3) If you are carrying any powerplay cargo or in hostile territory, then its disabled.

There might be other situations where it could be reasonable to disable.

When could you enable/disable? Probably not on the fly, probably only when docked or when logged off (from menu)?

Thoughts?

PvEers - could this be interesting for you, especially those of you who already play in Open?

PvPers - I'd like to ask if you consider this acceptable, but that might be a stretch. Do you have some specific objections or suggest changes that could make it acceptable?

Well allround good idea as I see it.
I'd allows for pvp when there is a legitimate reason and stimulates coop and interaction on the other side.
Everyone happy.

You have my vote sir

 

[StiTch]

Wouldn't a working C&P system be better?

Nah mate, just keep shaking pitchforks until FD roll out a reel of bubble wrap so large our ships are padded against even planetary collisions. Trust me, the game will be more exciting when it's been converted to a single player game

 

[Stigbob]

I would care - even though I don't share the enthusiasm for the play-style - we all bought (or backed) the game with with three game modes, single shared galaxy state and mode mobility - which permits players to choose whether, or not, to play in a game mode where PvP is enabled (i.e. both multi-player game modes) on a session-by-session basis.

To create an Open-PvE mode now would be seen by some as Frontier diminishing PvP (by not leaving Open as the only game mode with an unlimited population).

Anyway, DBOBE has indicated that any attempt to create an Open-PvE mode would be complicated by the requirement to mitigate any actions that could be considered to be PvP (i.e. ramming, blocking, etc.) - so I don't expect that it would happen soon, if at all.

The population of Open has always been dependent on players wanting to play there - with each player able to create and maintain their own Private Group, should they so choose to do. Frontier seem to be taking steps to encourage players to play in it - by reducing disincentives. Hopefully these measures will be successful - however as Frontier are the only ones that know how many players play and in which modes, we'll never know for sure unless told.

Yep, open is my default mode I'd definitely miss it.

I think the popularity of Mobius took FDEV by surprise, they had to make changes to expand it (more than once) and prevent it breaking the game. Maybe a simple menu option for open PVE would simplify matters both at FDEV and in the forum (and for Mobius himself), as if it was a formal mode as opposed to a private group it might attract less ire.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Wouldn't a working C&P system be better?

This. As a PvE'er in Open, I find the notion of enforced invulnerability loathsome.