Newcomer / Intro PVE Piloting Help, what exactly is my ship doing please

[Crumly]

I used to do alot of PVE many years ago, bounty hunting and power point undermining. I feel like I used to be decent at it, I could keep NPC's in my crosshairs (gimballed) much better than I can today (been playing a week).

I remember using my vertical thrusters constantly during combat, but now I just seem confused by it. My muscle memory from years ago is telling me to thrust "down" while pitching up, and thrust "up" while pitching down, and this is where I'm having a problem.

It kinda seems like thrusting up while pitching down (and using boost), is increasing my pitch speed the way I remember, but I think this is increasing the distance between myself and the NPC. I'm not exactly sure what my ship is doing. I've experiemented with thrusting UP while pitching UP, and this seems to have a different effect all together and I'm can't tell what's happening.

I've tried thrusting down, pitching up, then thrust up and hitting boost too. I can't tell if any of this is effective or not. I have a problem in my life where if I don't really understand a part of a whole, I struggle with the whole thing.

Another thing, I used a clipper almost exclusively back then, and now a krait mk2. What are some of the big differences (other than straight line speed) between a krait and clipper?

Thanks for you time

 

[[VR] Orodruin]

Are you flying with flight-assist on or off?

One good way of getting a grip on how your ship handles is flying it around some fixed reference (such as an outpost) while trying out different manoeuvres.

 

[GeoJase]

Some ships drift a lot, esp if its a heavy build. Keep your throttle in the blue helps hugely with maneuvering.

 

[Maenden]

The shortest route to your target is a straight line. So if you head directly towards a target you will get closer.
If you hit vertical thrust it takes you off the straight line. Your resulting path will be the vector of the horizontal and vertical velocities. Whether or not you get closer or further away from the target depends on the relative values of the two components.

But if this has apparently worked well for you in the past I would guess you understand the dynamics. In that case I would look at whether or not you used to use Flight Assist and now have it turned off. (Or vice versa).
If you have a new set of bindings I would also check to see if you have any reversed controls compared to last time.

 

[aRJay]

NPCs have had their abilities changed both up and down in the last 4 years or so and depending on rank and location might well be flying with some engineering on their ships, which might be making a difference.

In theory the Clipper outperforms the Kraits in pitch and yaw but the Kraits roll faster so that could also be a factor.

 

[Crumly]

thanks for your replies. i keep the throttle at 50%, sometimes i will thrust forward or backward to maintain distance from a slow moving or if I'm directly behind a NPC

I never knew if it worked well in the past or not, it's just what I did. i play by feel more than actual understanding, and now I'm starting to think i'm doing it badly because i wind up jousting alot more than i thought i used to.

back in the day i did turn FA off briefly at times, i think i had a way to turn it off and on again to turn my ship around faster when i did wind up jousting, or to boost in reverse possibly. right now i never turn it off because i dont feel like i'm controlling my ship worth a

 

[[VR] Orodruin]

Flying with flight assist on you are leaving certain things up to the computer. In essence you are inputting velocities and rotations and the computer tries to match those. It was never very intuitive to me exactly how it worked. Flying with flight assist on you instead have control over your acceleration and angular acceleration. This to me is more intuitive because I know exactly what my ship is doing. Granted, the first times you turn flight assist off, you will most likely spin around uncontrollably like a tumbleweed in the desert. At least if you are anything like me. The key skill to learn is to use small inputs and not overcompensate. But that is enough ranting, you should of course fly in whatever way you enjoy the most.

Anyway, regardless of how you fly, I think it is a good idea to train your flight skills next to a fixed reference point as I mentioned above. It lets you practice without anything shooting at you and you can try to come up with different types of manoeuvres to perform that might translate well to a combat situation. It will give you a good feeling for your ship's capabilities, strengths and weaknesses.

 

[d8veh]

If you just want to kill NPCs as fast as possible, like bounty farming or CZs, use a fighter. Target the NPC, then set your fighter on it. Do not open fire until the fighter has landed shots and the target ship has turned to attack the fighter. The rest is like seal-clubbing. Target the NPC's power plant to put it out of its misery quickly. It will wake up to what's happening when it gets below 30% hull, by which time it's normally too late. Use the Condor with multi-cannons. If the fighter pops you're on your own. It helps to have an Elite NPC crew. Get a harmless one and rank them up to save money. It doesn't take long to get them past competent.

 

[wetwire]

Each ship handles differently.
In respect to the flipping end over end (pitch) you noticed it takes longer in the Krait MK II regardless of thrust vectoring and boosting.
This is true of the Krait compared to the Clipper. The Krait (factory) pitch rate is 21 degrees/second. the Clipper is 33 degrees/second
The clipper will pitch faster then the krait.

 

[the100thmonkey]

NPCs have been buffed overall, and certain ships have been buffed while others have been nerfed. Higher-ranked NPCs fly significantly better than they used to; if you're ending up jousting, it's probably half-decent NPCs.

 

[Crumly]

NPCs have been buffed overall, and certain ships have been buffed while others have been nerfed. Higher-ranked NPCs fly significantly better than they used to; if you're ending up jousting, it's probably half-decent NPCs.

ok, thats good to know. yeah, i tried to take down a dangerous anaconda and kinda started casually, i nearly died before i realized, had to boost away while shields regen'd.

so i finally finished grinding up 10k merits was my goal, so i could get the big pay out from my power play doing bounty hunting, that's the main thing i did back when i played before. i went to a hazardous rez and was totally surprised how bad i was doing. the power play npc's were better than the bounty hunting NPC's used to be, and the haz-res NPC's were pretty good. fought a wing of 3 eagles, which i was expecting to take about 1 minute, and it took awhile and i nearly lost my shields.

but i have bad memories of NPC's so I guess it's a good thing. I remember NPC's just sitting there rotating in space, like they gave up

 

[Crumly]

If you just want to kill NPCs as fast as possible, like bounty farming or CZs, use a fighter. Target the NPC, then set your fighter on it. Do not open fire until the fighter has landed shots and the target ship has turned to attack the fighter. The rest is like seal-clubbing. Target the NPC's power plant to put it out of its misery quickly. It will wake up to what's happening when it gets below 30% hull, by which time it's normally too late. Use the Condor with multi-cannons. If the fighter pops you're on your own. It helps to have an Elite NPC crew. Get a harmless one and rank them up to save money. It doesn't take long to get them past competent.

I'm finding my fighter doesn't last long, and I did start with mostly harmless and she's ranked up to expert right now (still only getting 5%). working on ranking her up even more

 

[Northpin]

I'm finding my fighter doesn't last long, and I did start with mostly harmless and she's ranked up to expert right now (still only getting 5%). working on ranking her up even more

Well, you need to watch over it.
Enemies operates in wings too. So if both of you are attacking a target, that target may ask for help, so you need to watch who's attacking your SLF.
The SLF can easily evade attacks from his target, but not if being attacked by someone else.

 

[aRJay]

….
I remember NPC's just sitting there rotating in space, like they gave up

They stopped doing that just before I started playing, the NPCs then got really good and players where asking to get their combat rank reset as they couldn't handle NPCs that could shoot back, there was actually a problem with some of the NPCs fabricating new overpowered weaponry at about the same time.
Since then they have been dumbed down and boosted at least once and there are now some extra tough wings of NPCs in Combat Zones with engineered ships that are tougher than anything else in a CZ, where everything is much better armoured than it used to be and changed a lot.

 

[Chris Simon]

I'm finding my fighter doesn't last long, and I did start with mostly harmless and she's ranked up to expert right now (still only getting 5%). working on ranking her up even more

Hi, I think I remember you from a couple years ago. Good to see you flying again.

You will find out that your pilot will die a lot less often once ranked past Expert. It's about the rank of Dangerous where they start to be really useful and Elite pilots can easily take on small fighters (like Eagles and Vipers) pretty much on their own.
But until then, try to not engage whole wings of enemies. Take them one by one.

What also helps is to give your pilot an SLF with a decent damage. I found out that fixed beam imperial fighter or anything with plasma cannons work pretty well. Don't give them things like gimbal pulse lasers. They may be easier for YOU to fly, but it really hampers their damage output and in combat, the best defense is always offense.

 

[A C Ender]

About your muscle memory: if a ship approach you and you try to pitch up to track them and you find that your pitching speed I too slow, by thrusting down you will increase your distance from them, making a wider turn and thus reduce their relative angular velocity to you. This make it easier to keep them in your sights, but you need to pay close attention to managing your distance to them. You don't want to get too far, just far enough so that you can track them again.

Opposed to this is thrusting up while you pitch up: this will keep you closer to them, but if you can't increase your speed enough vertically you may not be able to track them by pitching.

What determines which you need to do at any given time is determined by both your ships velocity (that's speed and direction), your thruster acceleration, your ships pitch/yaw speed, and your relative positions. The closer you are, the faster you need to pitch/yaw or accelerate to keep the enemy in your sights. If you can do this with thrusting towards them, you can maintain a closer position. The drawback is any changes in their velocity give you less time to react.

 

[Crumly]

About your muscle memory: if a ship approach you and you try to pitch up to track them and you find that your pitching speed I too slow, by thrusting down you will increase your distance from them, making a wider turn and thus reduce their relative angular velocity to you. This make it easier to keep them in your sights, but you need to pay close attention to managing your distance to them. You don't want to get too far, just far enough so that you can track them again.

Opposed to this is thrusting up while you pitch up: this will keep you closer to them, but if you can't increase your speed enough vertically you may not be able to track them by pitching.

What determines which you need to do at any given time is determined by both your ships velocity (that's speed and direction), your thruster acceleration, your ships pitch/yaw speed, and your relative positions. The closer you are, the faster you need to pitch/yaw or accelerate to keep the enemy in your sights. If you can do this with thrusting towards them, you can maintain a closer position. The drawback is any changes in their velocity give you less time to react.

i understand you, and thanks for understanding what i was asking. i was wondering why i always wound up so far away, its because i was moving my ship farther away, unwittingly.

 

[Crumly]

Hi, I think I remember you from a couple years ago. Good to see you flying again.

You will find out that your pilot will die a lot less often once ranked past Expert. It's about the rank of Dangerous where they start to be really useful and Elite pilots can easily take on small fighters (like Eagles and Vipers) pretty much on their own.
But until then, try to not engage whole wings of enemies. Take them one by one.

What also helps is to give your pilot an SLF with a decent damage. I found out that fixed beam imperial fighter or anything with plasma cannons work pretty well. Don't give them things like gimbal pulse lasers. They may be easier for YOU to fly, but it really hampers their damage output and in combat, the best defense is always offense.

Yes i remember you as well! Everytime i try to start playing again i wind up posting here

 

[A C Ender]

i understand you, and thanks for understanding what i was asking. i was wondering why i always wound up so far away, its because i was moving my ship farther away, unwittingly.

Ships with strong thrusters and high pitch you can often do the opposite: pitch (up) towards the enemy and thrust (up) towards the enemy (up was an example for their relative motion). This allow staying closer. The Vulture is very good for this, and for medium ships, the Chieftain and FAS is similar. For large ships, your best bet is the Orca, but that doesn't really compare to other large combat ships. Excluding that, no other large ship can really support that playstyle consistently.

 

[Crumly]

Ships with strong thrusters and high pitch you can often do the opposite: pitch (up) towards the enemy and thrust (up) towards the enemy (up was an example for their relative motion). This allow staying closer. The Vulture is very good for this, and for medium ships, the Chieftain and FAS is similar. For large ships, your best bet is the Orca, but that doesn't really compare to other large combat ships. Excluding that, no other large ship can really support that playstyle consistently.

what is your opinion of the clipper regarding what you said? and in general, for PVE (not thargoid content, not yet anyway)?